Calzone
Gear Whore #1
HW,
The micro lenses are optimized for M-glass. With other brands if you use M-glass performance will be especially compromised when using wides.
My SL is also great with M-glass wides.
For me a big deal, but perhaps not for others.
You could buy a Sony A7 and have the sensor modified so performance is not compromised.
Also if you shoot Leica glass, M, R, L, TL... the lens profiles could be another great advantage.
Also know that I even shoot a Noct-Nikkor on my SL and I can use a Noctilux F1.2 profile.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
HW,
Pretty well documented how M-mount wides respond say in a Sony A7 unless modified. This was always a big advantage for a SL.
If you don't use M-mount wides the premium makes it cost prohibitive I guess, but then again for optimization lens profiles should not be discounted.
Cal
raid
Dad Photographer
Is it true that the planned M11 will be in L mount? This could make me think of the SL or SL2.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
If I would toss this big money, I would get 50R. I have seen street pictures with it. Outstanding from else. Feels like LF.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
I would be very surprised if that happened. It would mean the end of the Leica M mount altogether (unless used with an adapter). It has been floated (Leica Rumors) that the M10 or M11 might be offered with an EVF option. It would actually make sense to me if this one carried an L mount.
And it's only a matter of time until Leica film cameras are discontinued. I'm sure they sell all of ~50 film cameras in a year world-wide!
Maybe Erwin Puts knows something after all?
Michael Markey
Mentor
It would make strategic sense to go down the L route for the M cameras.
After all ,they abandoned the screw mount and moved with the times back in the day.
They`ll probably bring it out as a variant if they chose to take that route .
From what I`ve seen (briefly testing a CL) the L lenses are very good and a dare say cheaper to produce than the M line.
It also opens up the market for their bodies .
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Michael,
The APO Crons are not inexpensive, although the APO 50 Cron-L is less expensive than the APO 50 Cron-M.
I do know that the "L" mount has less design restrictions, and Leica is not shy about making full frame "L" lenses huge and heavy, but it is clear to me that when you compare the M lenses, even APO lenses, against the L APO lenses the L glass wins.
In fewer words the APO L lenses are more highly corrected and closer to perfection. Read Jono Slack's reviews where he compares the APO 50 Cron-M against the new APO 50 Cron-L. The APO 50 Cron-L wins.
Who else is making APO wides? I can tell you that the APO 35 Cron is beyond being just a great lens (I own one). Nothing like it in the M-line as far as wides. More APO wides are coming...
I think the single restraint that would limit the adaptation of a "L" mount to a M-body is the physical short distance between the lens and the sensor in rangefinders. A larger diameter mount changes nothing. The laws of physics cannot be changed.
Clear to me that the "L" mount and the SL and SL2 are more open to exploiting more performance. Whether or not this performance is required or needed in one's photography is a separate issue. Is it worth the premium? Depends...
As far as premium goes are people looking into the simple elegant interface? Are people overlooking that the SL and SL2 are weather sealed, as well as the native SL lenses.
If people want to exploit their Leica glass is that easy to do without the menues of profiles? Isn't that the point of using profiles (to optimize the performance of lenses)?
I will say this: I love my SL; I have used it heavily for 4-5 years; but the new SL2 seems to me like a big advance. It will give me crazy capabilities as far as speed and performance with IBIS.
The ugly is that the premium is high, already the word is out that battery consumption is high (two batteries required for a day's worth of shooting, three if for video), and there are less expensive and very capable alternatives out there.
If anything, I think more cameras like the Q2 will come out. BTW I had someone connected to Leica tell me the Q's lens is already "future proofed" to 80 MP. Perhaps a Q3 will be a step closer in that direction.
As far as the current Leica L-mount glass it is likely future proofed out to 3-4 generations or at least 100 MP.
Also I own a CL. I love the interface: simple; and elegant. In comparing files of course the full frame is better. Also it seems that even when I use my APO 35 Cron and 50 Lux-L on the CL that the SL brings out the best. The 23 Cron-TL kinda gets crushed buy the "L" glass. Not a fair fight at all.
Cal
Ste_S
Well-known
Which has had the knock on effect of making af performance worse than the Panasonic S1R apparently (according to the DPReview vid).
It's a niche camera I guess - for people who are happy to pay the premium for Leica design and who will use M mount glass on it. If you want to use L mount only then the S1R is the better camera (and will save you 3k)
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Probably would luv this camera...but...
Same ole dumb...29 min video recording limit..
Making it useless for concerts etc..
Same ole dumb...29 min video recording limit..
Making it useless for concerts etc..
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
S,
The DP review was on an advanced prototype SL2. I suspect that what was reported was a bug. Full disclosure...
I agree that the SL2 is the better platform if the intended use is M-glass, and especially M-glass wides, but for some that have "R" glass it will also be the best platform. Don't forget the future proofed Leica L-glass also.
Does Panasonic provide lens profiles for Leica glass?
Makes sense to fully exploit Leica glass then perhaps shoot a Leica camera.
Cal
Michael Markey
Mentor
Must admit that I`ve never seen a positive review on a Leica product from that DP reviewer .
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
S,
Fact check: S1R price at B&H is $3697.99; SL2 price at B&H $5995.00.
Price difference is $2297.01, not $3K.
Perhaps don't discount the Leica M-mount adapter, but still under $3K price difference when including an adapter.
Cal
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
According to a sales rep at B&H, the S1R does. I was considering that camera for a time as a replacement for my M-P 240, but I ultimately decided I wanted to stick with a Leica M body.
Huss
Mentor
It does not. I checked it out.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Bill,
Thanks for the fact.
Interesting to see how far this L-mount collaboration is going. The Panasonic is also weather proofed. It has the advantage of a tilt screen.
Interesting how in one review how they pointed towards Leica glass, as Panasonic having limited offerings. Not sure how dated that review was though.
Things are evolving. I kinda gleen that the S1R also enjoys 5 1/2 stops of image stabilization, but evidently this gets extended to a full 6-stops if the mounted lens has IS. I always wondered how this worked out: if both lens and body had IS. My guess is likely that some IS is turned off on one or the other, but still somehow there is a net gain.
Just imagine shooting at night with 400 ISO and getting results of as if taking the shot at very high shutter speeds.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
My question to B&H at the time was this - On the S1R - "If used in conjunction with a Leica L to M adapter (the one with the 6-bit reader), will the 6-bit coded lens info show up in the EXIF data?" The answer that came back was "yes, in this instance the lens info will record in the EXIF data."
I then concluded that those Leica lens profiles must exist in the camera.
If I had indeed bought the camera, and it didn't work this way, I would have returned it.
Chuck Albertson
Well-known
No, it's not true.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Bill,
What you say makes sense to me.
On my SL the Leica adapters allow reading of 6-bit data of M-Lenses. Also if no 6-bit coding then the entire menu of M-lenses comes up so I can select one.
From Huss I learned that aftermarket adapters you get no lens recognition nor access to Leica lens profiles.
Also I discovered that if I used a Novaflex "F" to "M" adapter stacked on top of the Leica "M" to "L" adapter that I could get access to the M-lens profiles.
With my Noct-Nikkor I am able to utilize the Noctilux F1.2 profile for a good match. Both the Noct-Nikkor and the F1.2 Noctilux have hand ground ASPH lenses.
Basically if a lens or adapter is mounted downstream of the Leica M-adapter that lacks 6-bit coding one gets access to the library of lens profiles for M lenses.
When I stack a Leica "M" to "R" adapter on top of the "M" to "L" adapter, I get the R-lens library of profiles.
I wonder if this works the same on say a S1R? From what you are saying it seems so.
Cal
jarski
Mentor
Am remembering manual lens configuration of focal length and max aperture even from ancient Nikon D200 