timothyd
TimothyD
I'm going on a 16 day trip to Europe. Six days in Paris, four days in Florence, six days in Rome. This is my first trip to Europe besides London.
I am a new rangefinder user, so I only have a Bessa R2M and CV 35/2.5. But I've been thinking about buying a fairly cheap 50mm, and a used leica. Maybe an M6. Something that's not over 1000 dollars, but has metering. I want to have one camera with b/w and one with color, one with the 35 and one with the 50.
I've got 20 rolls of Kodachrome to try out, and I am going to buy lots of Ilford hp5 400.
What do you think of my possible setup for my trip? What do you recommend? What have you brought to these destinations?
If you have been to these places, where/what did you enjoy shooting?
I am a new rangefinder user, so I only have a Bessa R2M and CV 35/2.5. But I've been thinking about buying a fairly cheap 50mm, and a used leica. Maybe an M6. Something that's not over 1000 dollars, but has metering. I want to have one camera with b/w and one with color, one with the 35 and one with the 50.
I've got 20 rolls of Kodachrome to try out, and I am going to buy lots of Ilford hp5 400.
What do you think of my possible setup for my trip? What do you recommend? What have you brought to these destinations?
If you have been to these places, where/what did you enjoy shooting?
Olsen
Well-known
Bring some money! A cup of coffee on Champs Elysee costs $ 10.
I'd bring some faster film, too. Both colour and black and white.
There are going to be times indoors when neither the HP5 nor the Kodachrome will cut it. For me personally, a 35 and a 50 would probably be enough. Others may have different views. You may find that you wish you had a wider lens sometimes, if you are shooting architecture.
There are going to be times indoors when neither the HP5 nor the Kodachrome will cut it. For me personally, a 35 and a 50 would probably be enough. Others may have different views. You may find that you wish you had a wider lens sometimes, if you are shooting architecture.
Thardy
Mentor
I took a dslr with zoom lens (make sure you have something wide), and a Bessa with a 40 Nokton to shoot film.
I was really glad I had the dslr because I shot a bunch of film just playing around with the RF. You'll shoot many , many frames in 16 days especially in the places you're going.
Cannot emphasize how expensive everything is. Take lots of money.
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oscroft
Mentor
That's really not very different from the kit I've been using in Thailand for the past couple of months. I have some extra kit, but the core is an M6 with Kodachrome and an M2 with 400 ASA B&W (I have both Tri-X and APX-400), and I've mainly used CV 35/2.5 and CV 50/2.5 lenses. If you like the 35/2.5 you're pretty much sure to like the 50/2.5 (but for a real bargain 50, the Soviet Jupiter-8 is pretty good, though you'll need a screw to bayonet adaptor)
Thailand is different to those European cities, but in many ways a traveling kit is a traveling kit, and two bodies, color plus B&W, and 35 and 50 lenses is very much a classic.
Hope you have a great trip (and enjoy the Kodachrome - the only way they'll keep making it is if we keep buying it!).
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I'd go for a 35mm lens (streets are often narrow),
and a bucketload of money as prices are sky high. Hotels, restaurants, taxis...
and a bucketload of money as prices are sky high. Hotels, restaurants, taxis...
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I think you're fine with a Bessa R2M and the 35mm lens. As for film... check the weather report and make sure to have both, slow and fast film. Weather conditions change rapldly, and you may have a gorgeous day followed by a rainy one, and vice versa.
As for another camera... I wouldn't invest in any if you're going to use it for the first time. Not a good idea to be away from home when the camera develops ANY kind of problem (and it'll wreck your shots). You probably know that Kodachrome can be developed only by Dwayne's Photo Lab already, but if you are taking ISO 64, I'd take some Ektachrome 100 or 200 to balance it out, along with faster stuff, like Provia (extremely pushable).
The one and only lens I'd take along in addition to a wide angle is a 90mm lens. You'll need it for details.
Enjoy the places where you'll go! And don't faint at the price of things!
As for another camera... I wouldn't invest in any if you're going to use it for the first time. Not a good idea to be away from home when the camera develops ANY kind of problem (and it'll wreck your shots). You probably know that Kodachrome can be developed only by Dwayne's Photo Lab already, but if you are taking ISO 64, I'd take some Ektachrome 100 or 200 to balance it out, along with faster stuff, like Provia (extremely pushable).
The one and only lens I'd take along in addition to a wide angle is a 90mm lens. You'll need it for details.
Enjoy the places where you'll go! And don't faint at the price of things!
Leica0Series
Well-known
I just got back from two weeks in Paris (one work, one vacation), with an Epson R-D1, a Leica M4, an Avenon 28, a Summicron 50 and a Nikon SB-30 flash (almost my entire photo kit these days). I find 28/50 a better combo than 35/50.
I shot crappy on-sale color film from Ritz Camera in the M4 and am scanning it and converting it to black and white. I usually kept the 28 on the M4 and the 50 on the R-D1 (75mm equivalent) and found that very workable, although I did wish occasionally for a 90mm. If I wanted to go really light, I took either the R-D1 with the 28 or the M4 with the Summicron.
Photos are going up here, slowly: www.flickr.com/photos/brettdavis/.
And, yes, I recommend bags and bags of money. If you're in Paris for six days, consider getting a Carte Orange card for the Metro; mine was 32 euros for an unlimited five-zone pass, but they're cheaper the closer you stay to the central city (three zones will do the trick unless you want to go to Versailles). They are sold at the airport and major Metro stations and are aimed at commuters (they steer tourists to a more expensive version) but they'll sell it to you if you ask for it. Google "RATP" for the Paris rapid transit website for more info (the Carte Orange info is only on the French language page, though, but you can figure it out even if you don't speak or read much French. Enjoy!
I shot crappy on-sale color film from Ritz Camera in the M4 and am scanning it and converting it to black and white. I usually kept the 28 on the M4 and the 50 on the R-D1 (75mm equivalent) and found that very workable, although I did wish occasionally for a 90mm. If I wanted to go really light, I took either the R-D1 with the 28 or the M4 with the Summicron.
Photos are going up here, slowly: www.flickr.com/photos/brettdavis/.
And, yes, I recommend bags and bags of money. If you're in Paris for six days, consider getting a Carte Orange card for the Metro; mine was 32 euros for an unlimited five-zone pass, but they're cheaper the closer you stay to the central city (three zones will do the trick unless you want to go to Versailles). They are sold at the airport and major Metro stations and are aimed at commuters (they steer tourists to a more expensive version) but they'll sell it to you if you ask for it. Google "RATP" for the Paris rapid transit website for more info (the Carte Orange info is only on the French language page, though, but you can figure it out even if you don't speak or read much French. Enjoy!
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I would invest in a R4M or A rather than a used M6. Also a wide-angle lens, a VC 21 would work well with the R4 and no need for a finder. It would be about the same price as a used M6, without lens. Paris is very much a 35mm city and the other places are old and narrow streets (as well as very contrasty light). The R4M can handle the 35 in a pinch so it would serve as "insurance". Murphy's law applies when travelling. Going with one camera body only is bound to have something happen to it!!
As for film, the Kodachrome is OK, but a bit slow, The HP5 can be pushed for dark interiors (carry a feltmarker to write on the cassette for push processed film). Nothing worse than standing in the darkroom and going - "Now, which ones were 400 and which ones were 800?".
You are better off with a light pack, the two Bessa's and two lenses would work, without overloading your shoulders and back. You be surprised how many miles you will walk in a day! Good shoes are essential,
If you are going to do portraits or closer stuff, consider the VC 75f2.5 ot the 90f3.5 Apo Lanthar as a 3rd lens. I usually take something like that, buth truth be told, rarely use them!
As for a 50, the 35 will work in a pinch, just get a bit closer.
I suspect that you will come back having shot 75% with the 35 and the balance with a wide angle! That is my experience for "tourist" trips.
It is expenisve over there, but not unmanagable. Avoid the tourist spots for food and follow the trail of the locals. Buy ingredients and have picnic lunches in the parks instead.
Figure out at least 2 rolls per body and day and sometimes more. By the time you have paid for flights, hotel etc - film is still cheap!
The good news is that Paris is reasonably well stocked with stores that sell film - even black/white and though not cheap - you can stock up if you feel you need more (and you probably will - Paris devours film!).
Cafe's can be expensive, but it can be worth it. Pick the right ones (not Champs Elysee) and sit and watch the parade of people going by. $ 10 might be harsh, but spread out over the shots you can get, not too bad at all.
Have a great trip.
As for film, the Kodachrome is OK, but a bit slow, The HP5 can be pushed for dark interiors (carry a feltmarker to write on the cassette for push processed film). Nothing worse than standing in the darkroom and going - "Now, which ones were 400 and which ones were 800?".
You are better off with a light pack, the two Bessa's and two lenses would work, without overloading your shoulders and back. You be surprised how many miles you will walk in a day! Good shoes are essential,
If you are going to do portraits or closer stuff, consider the VC 75f2.5 ot the 90f3.5 Apo Lanthar as a 3rd lens. I usually take something like that, buth truth be told, rarely use them!
As for a 50, the 35 will work in a pinch, just get a bit closer.
I suspect that you will come back having shot 75% with the 35 and the balance with a wide angle! That is my experience for "tourist" trips.
It is expenisve over there, but not unmanagable. Avoid the tourist spots for food and follow the trail of the locals. Buy ingredients and have picnic lunches in the parks instead.
Figure out at least 2 rolls per body and day and sometimes more. By the time you have paid for flights, hotel etc - film is still cheap!
The good news is that Paris is reasonably well stocked with stores that sell film - even black/white and though not cheap - you can stock up if you feel you need more (and you probably will - Paris devours film!).
Cafe's can be expensive, but it can be worth it. Pick the right ones (not Champs Elysee) and sit and watch the parade of people going by. $ 10 might be harsh, but spread out over the shots you can get, not too bad at all.
Have a great trip.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
In Paris (no suggestions on Italy):
Eat/drink away from the main streets with the tourist-trap pavement cafés. A block or two away, the prices go down to half or less. Paris is nothing like as expensive as some people say, though the incredibly feeble dollar (1 euro has gone from under 90 cents US to almost $1.60 US during Dubbya's reign) doesn't help.
Use either a carte orange or a carnet (block) of tickets on the métro -- and walk as much as you can bear, not to save money but to see more. Try eating at Chartier's at least once: no reservations, queue to get in, good food, very reasonable prices.
For me, 35 and 50 are too close: I'd back 35/75 or 35/90. That may be just me. But I'd want something faster than f/2.5. Consider an ultra-light tripod for nght shots.
Film choices should be OK unless you want to shoot low-light colour; then you'll need at least 400 (go for neg, it's easier). With only an f/2.5 you might want some Delta 3200 too. I've used a 35/1.4 in Paris for the last 30 years or so.
I'll second the suggestion not to buy a new camera immediately before a trip. Give yourself a week or two to practice with it. Why a Leica rather than another Bessa? I'll also second the suggestion that a travelling kit is a travelling kit: I'd take much the same to Los Angeles, New York, Paris or Beijing (and I've photographed all four to a reasonable extent).
You might care to look at
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/travel.html
for a few more ideas and suggestions.
Cheers,
R.
Eat/drink away from the main streets with the tourist-trap pavement cafés. A block or two away, the prices go down to half or less. Paris is nothing like as expensive as some people say, though the incredibly feeble dollar (1 euro has gone from under 90 cents US to almost $1.60 US during Dubbya's reign) doesn't help.
Use either a carte orange or a carnet (block) of tickets on the métro -- and walk as much as you can bear, not to save money but to see more. Try eating at Chartier's at least once: no reservations, queue to get in, good food, very reasonable prices.
For me, 35 and 50 are too close: I'd back 35/75 or 35/90. That may be just me. But I'd want something faster than f/2.5. Consider an ultra-light tripod for nght shots.
Film choices should be OK unless you want to shoot low-light colour; then you'll need at least 400 (go for neg, it's easier). With only an f/2.5 you might want some Delta 3200 too. I've used a 35/1.4 in Paris for the last 30 years or so.
I'll second the suggestion not to buy a new camera immediately before a trip. Give yourself a week or two to practice with it. Why a Leica rather than another Bessa? I'll also second the suggestion that a travelling kit is a travelling kit: I'd take much the same to Los Angeles, New York, Paris or Beijing (and I've photographed all four to a reasonable extent).
You might care to look at
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/travel.html
for a few more ideas and suggestions.
Cheers,
R.
hjfischer
Texas Rangerfinder
I've been to Paris several times. Apart from the usual sites, I highly recommend the interior of Sainte-Chapelle ("Holy Chapel"), located within the Palais de Justice complex. IMHO, the stained glass widows are unsurpassed anywhere,and on a sunny day,you'll get some of the best color shots you have ever taken. Here is a web site: http://www.discoverfrance.net/France/Cathedrals/Paris/Sainte-Chapelle.shtml
mcvr
Newbie
Bring enough film!
Bring enough film!
You should bring enough film, as it is a lot more expensive over here than in the states. You basically pay the same amount in Euros as in Dollars. (And put it in your handluggage not your suitcase)
Bring enough film!
You should bring enough film, as it is a lot more expensive over here than in the states. You basically pay the same amount in Euros as in Dollars. (And put it in your handluggage not your suitcase)
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
My travel kit for the past few years has been an M3 with a 50mm, a 21mm, and an Olympus XA as a pocket cam and to get a 35mm lens. I shoot with a 50mm most of the time, though. My best advice is to bring the lens you use most often at home, and something else which gets you a very different perspective. I like the 21mm/50mm kit very much; others will advocate the classic 35mm/90mm. Just don't bring so much gear that you don't want to carry it around. I'd avoid getting a new body for your trip- you'll spend time playing with a new camera rather than experiencing your trip. Bring gear you know so well you don't think about it anymore.
As for film choices, I think you are on the right track with your Kodachrome and HP5 idea. HP5 will work from 200 to 1600- just be sure to listen to Tom and mark your cassettes with the EI you used. (I carry some white paper tape. I put a piece on the bottom of my camera when I reload, and mark it with film type, EI, and maybe the date or other quick shooting notes. When the film is shot, this tape gets wrapped around the film cassette.). Just make sure you know how your film was exposed when you come home and process it. Keep things simple, and enjoy your trip!
As for film choices, I think you are on the right track with your Kodachrome and HP5 idea. HP5 will work from 200 to 1600- just be sure to listen to Tom and mark your cassettes with the EI you used. (I carry some white paper tape. I put a piece on the bottom of my camera when I reload, and mark it with film type, EI, and maybe the date or other quick shooting notes. When the film is shot, this tape gets wrapped around the film cassette.). Just make sure you know how your film was exposed when you come home and process it. Keep things simple, and enjoy your trip!
jke
Well-known
The camera you have with the 35mm lens will be fine. Spend your money on film and shoot constantly. You will find that shooting a lot of photos with one lens will give you a better travelogue overall than spending all your time wrestling with this and that lens or whatever film. Maybe a good film like Provia 100 that you can push process in a pinch might be a good idea. Or Ektachrome 200Gx perhaps. Kodachrome is lovely, but again, if you shoot a lot, processing is top $$ when you get home. And anything that is shot in color can be made B&W, but not the other way around.
Otherwise, don't worry too much about it. If you haven't spent all your money on a new camera before you go, you'll have extra change for film while there. Plenty of places to buy film in Paris, including just about any FNAC. They are all over the place.
If you are totally itching to have a second camera, I think you are better off carrying a little digital point & shoot with decent low light capabilities. Then anything that requires stealth or flash can be handled by that. You can also hand it off to someone else in your party for a fresh view on the trip through their photographs.
Paris is great. Definitely go to the Grand Palais with the Serra exhibit. Definitely eat at the L'As Du Falafel in the Jewish Quarter, especially on a Sunday when all the kids are there. Such a swarm! The museums are tremendous - go to them all. But of course, don't miss the Fondation Henri Cartier Bresson - a bit hard to find on a dead end street, but it usually has a good show. If you are there in August, things may be shut, but what the heck - then you have an excuse to sample all the cafes.
Otherwise, don't worry too much about it. If you haven't spent all your money on a new camera before you go, you'll have extra change for film while there. Plenty of places to buy film in Paris, including just about any FNAC. They are all over the place.
If you are totally itching to have a second camera, I think you are better off carrying a little digital point & shoot with decent low light capabilities. Then anything that requires stealth or flash can be handled by that. You can also hand it off to someone else in your party for a fresh view on the trip through their photographs.
Paris is great. Definitely go to the Grand Palais with the Serra exhibit. Definitely eat at the L'As Du Falafel in the Jewish Quarter, especially on a Sunday when all the kids are there. Such a swarm! The museums are tremendous - go to them all. But of course, don't miss the Fondation Henri Cartier Bresson - a bit hard to find on a dead end street, but it usually has a good show. If you are there in August, things may be shut, but what the heck - then you have an excuse to sample all the cafes.
35mmdelux
#Represent
I've been to Paris a few times over the years. with Paris in mind I would take a 21/35/90mm lenses. The 35mm for 80%. The 21mm for interiors/widescapes. Possibly a 90 for detail work, whatnot. All of this stowed in a small Domke satchel or small backpack.
Be careful where you set down your gear. Keep it on you or wrap the strap around the arm of your chair. I have seen to many running theives everywhere.
Film: I like kodachrome 200 these days and can be ramped up to 400asa -- although it will cost you an extra $10 at Dwaynes for special pull developing. HP-5 is great as I believe it can be pulled 2-3x. You may want to consider a fuji 800 color film as well.
Enjoy the trip.
Be careful where you set down your gear. Keep it on you or wrap the strap around the arm of your chair. I have seen to many running theives everywhere.
Film: I like kodachrome 200 these days and can be ramped up to 400asa -- although it will cost you an extra $10 at Dwaynes for special pull developing. HP-5 is great as I believe it can be pulled 2-3x. You may want to consider a fuji 800 color film as well.
Enjoy the trip.
yanidel
Well-known
Some caution is needed like any place, yet it is now three years that I live in Paris and I have never seen a thief running away with a camera
Keep an eye but don´t get paranoiac and enjoy. I fully agree with the 21/35/90mm recommendation, I also 50mm quite a lot in tight streets.
brachal
Refrigerated User
When I travel, I like to have two cameras (usually a Bessa-R and Leica IIIf -- they're what I've got), one with 100 or 400 for outdoors and the other with 1600 for evenings, cathedrals, etc. The lenses that get the most use are CV 28mm Skopar, 50mm Jupiter-3, and 85mm Jupiter-9. Sometimes I'll bring the CV 35mm Skopar (love that lens) or 135mm Jupiter-11, but they don't get used as much.
David Murphy
Mentor
I just got back from France where I spent ten days in Marseille and Paris. I took a Leica IIIc (obtained a while back in a trade deal with Raid), a Rollei 35 Tessar, and a Nikon F with an unmetered prism. The Rollei 35 had a problem that rendered it unusable so I was left with the IIIc and the F. I had LTM lenses at 15, 25, 28, 35, and 50mm and a Nikkor 35/2.8 and 28/3.5 plus an aftermarket 70-210mm F mount zoom. I took at least 20 rolls of film; primarily slide film with a strong slant towards Kodachrome. I had a Gossen Luna Pro and a Russian turret finder and large lead bags to shield the film.
Here's what I learned:
1) Don't even think about checking the film in your luggage -- Homeland Security told me their new x-rays machines will destroy it.
2) Take no less than two cameras.
3) Make sure one of the cameras is fully mechanical. My lady friend who toured Paris with me had a digital PS and it broke (as most do eventually). The IIIc and the F true to their heritage kept on cranking and did nearly all the shooting duties. That sort of thing really wipes the smug smiles off the faces of digital advocates.
4) I got really good at bottom loading, although I wished I'd had my M2 instead of the IIIc. The IIIc got the call cause of it's reliability, small size, and the fact that I've got a better selection of LTM lenses and I don't like using LTM->M adapters. I pondered taking a Bessa R instead of the IIIc, but the IIIc is so very stylish in Paris. The Bessa R would have enabled more shots since its TTL metering is so fast and accurate. Any manual Bessa body would be a good choice.
5) Make sure camera cases, straps, filters, etc. are in good shape. I had trouble with all of these, but overcame them.
6) Paris demanded a full range of photographic capability to really do it right. Day and night work, short and long lenses, fast and slow film, SLR/rangefinder, etc. Anyone who's every been there knows what I mean. I did not really have all that I would have liked. For instance a strobe, a 50mm F1.2 LTM lens (e.g. Canon), and a top notch full range zoom on the F would have been very useful as would have been tripod and cable releases. For example you can go from blazing Sunlight on the streets to near darkness inside a cathedral in minutes. A quiet shutter as on an M series Leica would really have been useful in museums and churches. If I'd been there just to photograph Paris rather than see it, I'd also have taken a Bolex 16mm movie camera and a Rolleiflex, but then I'd have been regarded as a crank by my companion (it was bordering on that as it was).
7) The F, despite it's heaviness, is becoming one of my favorite traveling SLR companions. The F is so tough and reliable and its lenses are so crisp and sharp that I just adore it. It does not let me down and it still produces dazzling results despite its age.
Here's what I learned:
1) Don't even think about checking the film in your luggage -- Homeland Security told me their new x-rays machines will destroy it.
2) Take no less than two cameras.
3) Make sure one of the cameras is fully mechanical. My lady friend who toured Paris with me had a digital PS and it broke (as most do eventually). The IIIc and the F true to their heritage kept on cranking and did nearly all the shooting duties. That sort of thing really wipes the smug smiles off the faces of digital advocates.
4) I got really good at bottom loading, although I wished I'd had my M2 instead of the IIIc. The IIIc got the call cause of it's reliability, small size, and the fact that I've got a better selection of LTM lenses and I don't like using LTM->M adapters. I pondered taking a Bessa R instead of the IIIc, but the IIIc is so very stylish in Paris
. The Bessa R would have enabled more shots since its TTL metering is so fast and accurate. Any manual Bessa body would be a good choice.5) Make sure camera cases, straps, filters, etc. are in good shape. I had trouble with all of these, but overcame them.
6) Paris demanded a full range of photographic capability to really do it right. Day and night work, short and long lenses, fast and slow film, SLR/rangefinder, etc. Anyone who's every been there knows what I mean. I did not really have all that I would have liked. For instance a strobe, a 50mm F1.2 LTM lens (e.g. Canon), and a top notch full range zoom on the F would have been very useful as would have been tripod and cable releases. For example you can go from blazing Sunlight on the streets to near darkness inside a cathedral in minutes. A quiet shutter as on an M series Leica would really have been useful in museums and churches. If I'd been there just to photograph Paris rather than see it, I'd also have taken a Bolex 16mm movie camera and a Rolleiflex, but then I'd have been regarded as a crank by my companion (it was bordering on that as it was).
7) The F, despite it's heaviness, is becoming one of my favorite traveling SLR companions. The F is so tough and reliable and its lenses are so crisp and sharp that I just adore it. It does not let me down and it still produces dazzling results despite its age.
jky
Well-known
You can include me in your kit... I'm here in New Jersey at the moment so it's easy for me to meet you up in NY. I'm Canadian and know how to count to "10" in French...
35mmdelux
#Represent
... I have never seen a thief running away with a camera
I'm more careful anymore no matter where I am. I have seen knuckleheads stealing purses in side walk cafes and Rolex watches by gunpoint in Beverly Hills.
Paris; I happen to like Paris -- its one of my favorite towns.