ampguy
Mentor
So only have 30 images through it, but here are some quick observations:
The sensor is quite amazing for a compact, zooming to 100% looks quite printable, but beyond that at least from the on-screen imaging, you'll see JPG artifacts.
All of the bad things you've read about this camera are true. It is probably the slowest auto focusing camera you can buy, the AF whines. The menus and interface are kludgier than most modern cameras, in A mode, having the big round dial be an Aperture ring, is nice. White balance is like a '90s camera, and will often be off.
The good things, and why this will be my 2016 one camera one lens, along with cell phone and EPL1 with body camera 9mm lens maybe, is that it slows you down, not just the AF, but knowing that the battery with eye-fi mobi is only good for 30-40 shots or so, slows you down like film, you don't want to waste battery, and you want to take "keepers"
The IQ beats any Leica or Fujifilm, at least for landscapes. And that's pretty much the main advantage. I'm shooting in auto-iso JPG mode, toggling between color and mono. The 3:2 is also refreshing.
The lens is not perfect, there is slight barrel distortion, less than most newer Leica and Nikon lenses, but it's there at the edges, which of course could be dialed out. The Eye-fi mobi will only move the JPGs to your phone, not raw, though the pro will do raw, but the pro reportedly uses even more battery.
There is flare when shooting into the sun, and no hood comes with the camera, though I have one coming. You do get two batteries, but for trips, you're going to need more than 2.
Overall, I couldn't recommend this camera to anyone, but myself. Did I mention that this is not a camera for ........ ??
The sensor is quite amazing for a compact, zooming to 100% looks quite printable, but beyond that at least from the on-screen imaging, you'll see JPG artifacts.
All of the bad things you've read about this camera are true. It is probably the slowest auto focusing camera you can buy, the AF whines. The menus and interface are kludgier than most modern cameras, in A mode, having the big round dial be an Aperture ring, is nice. White balance is like a '90s camera, and will often be off.
The good things, and why this will be my 2016 one camera one lens, along with cell phone and EPL1 with body camera 9mm lens maybe, is that it slows you down, not just the AF, but knowing that the battery with eye-fi mobi is only good for 30-40 shots or so, slows you down like film, you don't want to waste battery, and you want to take "keepers"
The IQ beats any Leica or Fujifilm, at least for landscapes. And that's pretty much the main advantage. I'm shooting in auto-iso JPG mode, toggling between color and mono. The 3:2 is also refreshing.
The lens is not perfect, there is slight barrel distortion, less than most newer Leica and Nikon lenses, but it's there at the edges, which of course could be dialed out. The Eye-fi mobi will only move the JPGs to your phone, not raw, though the pro will do raw, but the pro reportedly uses even more battery.
There is flare when shooting into the sun, and no hood comes with the camera, though I have one coming. You do get two batteries, but for trips, you're going to need more than 2.
Overall, I couldn't recommend this camera to anyone, but myself. Did I mention that this is not a camera for ........ ??
Samouraï
Well-known
The IQ out of the Merrill sensor can beat any full-frame camera up to (and including) the original A7R, imo. The files are extremely printable. Jpegs are a bad idea.
It's a specialty camera: so yeah quirky and difficult until you learn it. Treat it like a technical camera and you'll be blown away, at least that's what reviews say (I treat it as I would any other camera, though the technical limitations fit my style of shooting). And nothing else has the Foveon Merrill look. It's already a classic.
Some questions: why shoot auto-iso Jpeg? Why is 3:2 refreshing? If you want to shoot mono, you really should be developing in SPP, as there are some blue-channel tricks that will allow you to shoot around 1600 iso and get pretty clean, filmic files.
I hope this thread turns into your one-camera 2016 thread, as that really interests me.
It's a specialty camera: so yeah quirky and difficult until you learn it. Treat it like a technical camera and you'll be blown away, at least that's what reviews say (I treat it as I would any other camera, though the technical limitations fit my style of shooting). And nothing else has the Foveon Merrill look. It's already a classic.
Some questions: why shoot auto-iso Jpeg? Why is 3:2 refreshing? If you want to shoot mono, you really should be developing in SPP, as there are some blue-channel tricks that will allow you to shoot around 1600 iso and get pretty clean, filmic files.
I hope this thread turns into your one-camera 2016 thread, as that really interests me.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Same thought here… looking forward to seeing your images as you climb the foveon learning curve. Thanks for sharing your initial thoughts.
ampguy
Mentor
answers
answers
Have you shot JPGs? How did they compare with other cameras?
Why are they a bad idea? Why is SPP 14-bit RAW better?
I don't want tricks of color for my mono files. That is like shooting Kodachrome, and converting to mono, using the additional color channels for unrealistic filtering.
3:2 is about the original ratio of 35mm film. 4/3rds is not, and was what I was using, so going back towards the 3:2 ratio is "refreshing" for me.
answers
Have you shot JPGs? How did they compare with other cameras?
Why are they a bad idea? Why is SPP 14-bit RAW better?
I don't want tricks of color for my mono files. That is like shooting Kodachrome, and converting to mono, using the additional color channels for unrealistic filtering.
3:2 is about the original ratio of 35mm film. 4/3rds is not, and was what I was using, so going back towards the 3:2 ratio is "refreshing" for me.
Spanik
Well-known
The DP2m is all that but I think you are a bit overly critical. The only things about it that bothers me are the battery issue, the problematic iso performance and the focal length. And even then the iso performance is only an issue because you have to use the screen to compose and so no stability unless on a tripod. Batteries can make it a hassle at times but then I don't want 1000 shot/day as I have no time to shift through them. And focal length isn't that much of a problem as I have a DP1m.
Great camera but I couldn't live with it as the only camera.
Great camera but I couldn't live with it as the only camera.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
They can be an only camera but they definitely change the way you shoot.
And the jpegs suck IMO. I've never bothered with them.
And the jpegs suck IMO. I've never bothered with them.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I meant to mention one thing that has always really impressed me about the raw files is how forgiving they are when you blow the highlights. You can't recover data where there isn't any of course bit the transition into those areas seems to be a lot more pleasing on the eye than many other digicams.
Michael Markey
Mentor
Lss
Well-known
I still sometimes think about getting one of the DP1 versions. Had the original pretty much since launch. It was very quick to use with the thumb wheel MF. Removal of this feature is one key reason why I never bought one of the newer versions. That and RAW workflow.
I used the DP1 with an OVF, and that experience is actually why I started looking into rangefinder cameras in the first place.
I used the DP1 with an OVF, and that experience is actually why I started looking into rangefinder cameras in the first place.
shawn
Mentor
RAW gives you more dynamic range captured, the ability to correct white balance after the shot, SPPs fill light, and a better jpeg conversion later on, more control over noise reduction and sharpening and so on. If you think the JPEGs from the Merril are good you need to try out some X3F conversions. They are even better.
As far as monochrome that is not what was intended at all. SPP (or RawDigger or Iridient Developer) will let you create monochrome conversions using just the top layer of the sensor. That layer has much less noise than the next two layers so you are able to shoot at a much higher ISO without running into noise problems. The top layer is called 'blue' but it is really full spectrum. Shooting this way is very much like shooting a monochrome camera, you can even use color filters the same way as you would on B&W film.
To do this you *must* shoot RAW. If you do the previews on the camera will look *horrible* at ISO 1600. Trust that the monochrome conversions will be dramatically better when you get back to your computer.
Here is an example showing the monochrome conversion....
https://fotogenerellinternational.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/foveon-workflow-how-to-improve-high-iso-usability/
Shawn
shawn
Mentor
BTW, the best way to solve the menu issue is to setup the QS1 and QS2 options the way that works for you. You then have very quick access to whatever settings you use the most frequently. The dial is nice and you can remap that for other functions as well. I have mine swapped so the side to side buttons will adjust aperture and the dial is exposure compensation. You change that in the Key Arrangement menu option.
Have fun,
Shawn
Samouraï
Well-known
I'll just repeat what the last few posts have noted:
-the RAWs are super-forgiving when pulling back blown-out highlights (the opposite is true of the Quattros)
-in fact, you need to be exposing for your shadows to some degree, as you'll be losing color detail in underexposed areas
-the Fill Light slider is one of the best reasons to use SPP
-try editing some color shots in SPP and compare to your jpegs
-try isolating the blue channel in SPP for your high-iso BW photography and compare it to your jpegs
-the jpegs out of the DPMs are worse than almost any other cameras, not meant to be used for a finished photo
Back to the blue channel. This is the top layer of the sensor, basically a very pale blue. You can isolate that layer by setting your BW color filter to 100% blue. It's not as severe as using a true blue filter, imo. And it's the only way to eek out clean files at high isos. Treat the camera like a mini-Leica Monochrom when you need the sensitivity. After the Monochroms, this is the best digital BW camera on the market (you should exploit that, not shun it).
It should really be interesting to compare the results at the start to the finish. That said, this thread is redundant as this information is available all over the net.
ampguy
Mentor
Well my interest is piqued, but I am sticking with JPG mode. I will however save RAW images for future potential image manipulations.
GaryLH
Mentor
Night and day difference between raw and jpg
Night and day difference between raw and jpg
The amounts nt of detail that is waiting for u in the raw vs the jpg is just night and day pre-Quattro. The Quattro improved the jpg engine quite a bit compared to the Merrill cameras, but the raw is still better.
I remember being very impressed by the detail in the jpg as well. Then finally went thru the process of learning to develop the raw in SPP. Even w/o doing any real adjustment, just converting to tiff file. The detail in the tiff file is night and day difference....
I shoot jpg+raw. Preview and mark keepers using the jpg files. Run the keepers thru SPP to convert to tiff. Import into Aperture for final editing.
Have fun w/ your Merrill
Gary
Night and day difference between raw and jpg
The amounts nt of detail that is waiting for u in the raw vs the jpg is just night and day pre-Quattro. The Quattro improved the jpg engine quite a bit compared to the Merrill cameras, but the raw is still better.
I remember being very impressed by the detail in the jpg as well. Then finally went thru the process of learning to develop the raw in SPP. Even w/o doing any real adjustment, just converting to tiff file. The detail in the tiff file is night and day difference....
I shoot jpg+raw. Preview and mark keepers using the jpg files. Run the keepers thru SPP to convert to tiff. Import into Aperture for final editing.
Have fun w/ your Merrill
Gary
shawn
Mentor
Since you are a Mac user if you just use the JPGs to find keepers there is an easier way...
Download this:
http://www.corpus-callosum.com/software/packages/X3F_Utilities_v1.5.1.dmg
And follow the instructions to install it the quicklook utility.
After you do that the finder will allow you to preview X3F files directly by showing the embedded JPG.
Shawn
Attachments
GaryLH
Mentor
jarski
Mentor
Because OOC jpegs are so bad, shooting raw only adds to film days charm: results are not usable immediately, but after some time when photo is developed
Samouraï
Well-known
Woah, thanks for this. This should be a sticky at the top of the Foveon subforum. Maybe a regularly updated software link repository. Say new firmware update links (Gary's threads usually let me know before Sigma Rumors), SPP links, and then these awesome custom mods like this.
shawn
Mentor
You are welcome. That is an incredibly useful utility for Sigma shooters that use Macs. I don't have a Quattro but downloaded an X3F from the DP0 and it showed the embedded JPG in that too.
Shawn
Shawn
GaryLH
Mentor
Prior to the Quattro series, the embedded jpg in the raw file was compressed small, just big enough for most quick browse type functions.. When Quattro was released they introduced a full size jpg. The standard jpg can be extracted from the raw using the SPP batch operation, so u don't have to do jpg+raw if don't mind the extra process set through SPP. The new browser saves even that step.
Gary
Gary