jimbobuk
Established
Hi folks.
Being an R-D1 owner first (well after my canon 350D) i never really thought i'd go for film in any way.. after a while i picked up an Olympus XA and put some fuji film through that.. i recently got an olympus 35 RC which i've nearly finished a test film of so will need to develop.. I then started to just get the itch... and so i've now today just received a Leitz Minolta CL to accompany the CLE's 40mm Rokkor lens i'd already got for use on my R-D1.
Anyways I've got 5 rolls of illford XP2 having understood that i'd be able to develop it like it was colour film, ie. anywhere... the CL seller sent me some HP4 as well which is real B&W film so i guess will need specialist development (even though ironically its a simpler film to develop?)
I'm contemplating doing my own developing and film scanning, though not any time soon as all the film scanners i've seen so far are near £500 which is a bit much till i get really into the whole work flow.
My R-D1 will remain my main camera purely so i can learn with it and take lots of photos at no cost.. but the film cameras i have now will get used hopefully more and more if i manage to get some good results.
So far i've only ever developed at the local boots as they have the fuji scanners i'd read somewhere were pretty good. The prints aren't bad at all.. I paid extra to get a CD with the pics on as well, but the photos you get off the CD aren't great
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/sets/72057594067649461/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/sets/72057594067690817/
I have more colour film to develop, and then the b&w developed as colour XP2, and the totally B&W HP4 .. any recommendations.. am i fine putting the XP2 through the boots development process.. i've heard sometimes you can get a sepia look when done this way..
Any tips, recommendations on home developing of b&w (its still simple to do XP2 as well as normal HP style film too isn't it? different chemicals mind), equipment to use etc.. scanners that are reasonable (better output than the linked boots CD images) yet not as much as the £500 ones.
Thats about it i guess.. hope this is the right place to ask.
Cheers
Jim
Being an R-D1 owner first (well after my canon 350D) i never really thought i'd go for film in any way.. after a while i picked up an Olympus XA and put some fuji film through that.. i recently got an olympus 35 RC which i've nearly finished a test film of so will need to develop.. I then started to just get the itch... and so i've now today just received a Leitz Minolta CL to accompany the CLE's 40mm Rokkor lens i'd already got for use on my R-D1.
Anyways I've got 5 rolls of illford XP2 having understood that i'd be able to develop it like it was colour film, ie. anywhere... the CL seller sent me some HP4 as well which is real B&W film so i guess will need specialist development (even though ironically its a simpler film to develop?)
I'm contemplating doing my own developing and film scanning, though not any time soon as all the film scanners i've seen so far are near £500 which is a bit much till i get really into the whole work flow.
My R-D1 will remain my main camera purely so i can learn with it and take lots of photos at no cost.. but the film cameras i have now will get used hopefully more and more if i manage to get some good results.
So far i've only ever developed at the local boots as they have the fuji scanners i'd read somewhere were pretty good. The prints aren't bad at all.. I paid extra to get a CD with the pics on as well, but the photos you get off the CD aren't great
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/sets/72057594067649461/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/sets/72057594067690817/
I have more colour film to develop, and then the b&w developed as colour XP2, and the totally B&W HP4 .. any recommendations.. am i fine putting the XP2 through the boots development process.. i've heard sometimes you can get a sepia look when done this way..
Any tips, recommendations on home developing of b&w (its still simple to do XP2 as well as normal HP style film too isn't it? different chemicals mind), equipment to use etc.. scanners that are reasonable (better output than the linked boots CD images) yet not as much as the £500 ones.
Thats about it i guess.. hope this is the right place to ask.
Cheers
Jim
sunsworth
Well-known
Jim, the XP2 will be ok at Boots, but I doubt that you'll get neutral b&w prints. XP2 lacks the orange mask that most colour films have and this can play havoc at the printing stage. Sepia, green, both are possible.
Home development of the HP5 - I doubt that it's HP4, if it is throw it away it'll be ancient - isn't difficult. Have a look at this link for details...
http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/Film Hobbyist.PDF
It's geared towards Ilford products, but provides a good overview of what's involved.
For a scanner I would have recommended one of the Minolta models, but you'll probably struggle to find them following Minolta's demise.
Hope this helps.
Steve
Home development of the HP5 - I doubt that it's HP4, if it is throw it away it'll be ancient - isn't difficult. Have a look at this link for details...
http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/Film Hobbyist.PDF
It's geared towards Ilford products, but provides a good overview of what's involved.
For a scanner I would have recommended one of the Minolta models, but you'll probably struggle to find them following Minolta's demise.
Hope this helps.
Steve
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
For scanning look on eBay for PrimeFilm 1800i. Many people in here will diss it because the resolution is only 1800, but that's probably better than Boots and enough for A5 prints or internet usage.
I paid about €60 for one recently.
I paid about €60 for one recently.
Gid
Well-known
Hi Jim,
Home developing of B&W is really easy - I just started a month or so ago. A bit more time consuming than sticking the memory card from my RD-1 into the card reader, but very rewarding. I use a changing bag and Paterson universal tank for single films. I have a Jobo processor if I need to dev a lot of films. C41 (XP2) is a bit more difficult as far as I can see and I haven't tried it yet. I will be putting my first rolls of XP2 through a local lab in the next week or so.
I use an Epson 4990 scanner (about £300) and the price may drop a little with the release of the V700. http://www.photo-i.co.uk/index.html has reviews of the most popular scanners including the new V700. I get results I am happy with from the 4990 - checked A3 prints from scans and they are very good. If you are only using 35mm it may be worth looking at the Nikon or Konica-Minolta dedicated scanners. I shoot MF as well as 35mm and the Epson will scan all the way up to 8"x10".
Have fun.
Regards
Gid
Home developing of B&W is really easy - I just started a month or so ago. A bit more time consuming than sticking the memory card from my RD-1 into the card reader, but very rewarding. I use a changing bag and Paterson universal tank for single films. I have a Jobo processor if I need to dev a lot of films. C41 (XP2) is a bit more difficult as far as I can see and I haven't tried it yet. I will be putting my first rolls of XP2 through a local lab in the next week or so.
I use an Epson 4990 scanner (about £300) and the price may drop a little with the release of the V700. http://www.photo-i.co.uk/index.html has reviews of the most popular scanners including the new V700. I get results I am happy with from the 4990 - checked A3 prints from scans and they are very good. If you are only using 35mm it may be worth looking at the Nikon or Konica-Minolta dedicated scanners. I shoot MF as well as 35mm and the Epson will scan all the way up to 8"x10".
Have fun.
Regards
Gid
jimbobuk
Established
Thanks guys... I'll probably be putting the XP2 film through a developer, probably boots..
I'd heard of the colour cast problems.. let me get this right though... if i do get it developed at boots.. the prints and CD may have slightly off colours but the actual negatives will be as good as if they'd been developed by someone understanding they're b&w??? ie. at a later date i may be able to scan them myself and get good results?
Or are the negatives themselves ruined with this colour cast problem?
Other than boots, can anyone recommend any places to get film developed, until i perhaps do take the plunge and have a go at developing them myself... I'm concerned mainly about storage space of the developing gear and the chemicals causing damage to say the kitchen sink (which is a textured resin material) and the surrounding kitchen surface... but having a go at developing myself is something i hope to try at some point
Just to get a real appreciation of whats involved..
I'd heard of the colour cast problems.. let me get this right though... if i do get it developed at boots.. the prints and CD may have slightly off colours but the actual negatives will be as good as if they'd been developed by someone understanding they're b&w??? ie. at a later date i may be able to scan them myself and get good results?
Or are the negatives themselves ruined with this colour cast problem?
Other than boots, can anyone recommend any places to get film developed, until i perhaps do take the plunge and have a go at developing them myself... I'm concerned mainly about storage space of the developing gear and the chemicals causing damage to say the kitchen sink (which is a textured resin material) and the surrounding kitchen surface... but having a go at developing myself is something i hope to try at some point
Just to get a real appreciation of whats involved..sunsworth
Well-known
Jim, the negatives will be ok. To the naked eye they'll look like 'normal' b&w negs. The only potential problem is with the prints.
The C41 process is standard regardless of make or speed of film (unless you want a film pushed or pulled). All C41 get the same 'treatment'. The main problem you'd have doing them at home is that the temperature is higher than for 'normal' b&w films. I do seem to remember that there is a Tetenal kit that operates at room temperature, but I could be mistaken.
Steve
The C41 process is standard regardless of make or speed of film (unless you want a film pushed or pulled). All C41 get the same 'treatment'. The main problem you'd have doing them at home is that the temperature is higher than for 'normal' b&w films. I do seem to remember that there is a Tetenal kit that operates at room temperature, but I could be mistaken.
Steve
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sunsworth
Well-known
sircarl
Well-known
Jim,
Why not get the XP2 devloped (and printed) by Ilford itself? Just use one of their prepaid mailers (available, for example, at 7dayshop -- http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_1&products_id=6073_) I've used this service a lot and have been very pleased with it.
Why not get the XP2 devloped (and printed) by Ilford itself? Just use one of their prepaid mailers (available, for example, at 7dayshop -- http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_1&products_id=6073_) I've used this service a lot and have been very pleased with it.
jimbobuk
Established
Thanks guys.. I'd considered getting illford develop it but then i'd read horror stories (possibly on here, definitely just by googling) with people saying they were unimpressed by the quality of the service/prints.. obviously requirements and even results will vary to a point from any service.. I dunno.
http://www.peak-imaging.com/
Is highly regarded and i may send one roll of film there.. also possibly contact them and ask if they could select 1 image that seemed pretty good (sharpness, and exposure wise) and along with doing the lowest quality scan for all images on the film scan that one image at the two other highest qualities so i may judge the difference in quality and potential in quality of those services.. Obviously i'd pay an additional fee for this, but not as much (i'd assume) as either of the higher quality scans are. Their prices look similar to boots on the digital front, with the options of scaling up.
Jessops do scaned cds too dont they? any ideas if they're any good relative to my linked boots ones.. which perhaps i was being a bit harsh with.. they look ok... just not exactly great at 100% viewing, nor are they THAT high resolution.
Cheers guys
http://www.peak-imaging.com/
Is highly regarded and i may send one roll of film there.. also possibly contact them and ask if they could select 1 image that seemed pretty good (sharpness, and exposure wise) and along with doing the lowest quality scan for all images on the film scan that one image at the two other highest qualities so i may judge the difference in quality and potential in quality of those services.. Obviously i'd pay an additional fee for this, but not as much (i'd assume) as either of the higher quality scans are. Their prices look similar to boots on the digital front, with the options of scaling up.
Jessops do scaned cds too dont they? any ideas if they're any good relative to my linked boots ones.. which perhaps i was being a bit harsh with.. they look ok... just not exactly great at 100% viewing, nor are they THAT high resolution.
Cheers guys
sircarl
Well-known
Jim,
I assume from what you said originally that you want to get the XP2 (and HP5) developed because you want to make your own scans and therefore prints. If that's the case, using Ilford should be fine. I've heard some people don't always like the prints they get back, but I've never gotten consistently good B&W prints from any service. In any case, why would you care -- you just want the prints for reference, right? Ilford does sometimes take a long time to get the work back to you, so I wouldn't rely on them if speed is important. But otherwise there should be no problem. And at least they'll be using Ilford chemistry. You don't know what soup a lab that is developing film from different manufacturers is throwing your rolls into!
I assume from what you said originally that you want to get the XP2 (and HP5) developed because you want to make your own scans and therefore prints. If that's the case, using Ilford should be fine. I've heard some people don't always like the prints they get back, but I've never gotten consistently good B&W prints from any service. In any case, why would you care -- you just want the prints for reference, right? Ilford does sometimes take a long time to get the work back to you, so I wouldn't rely on them if speed is important. But otherwise there should be no problem. And at least they'll be using Ilford chemistry. You don't know what soup a lab that is developing film from different manufacturers is throwing your rolls into!
jimbobuk
Established
good point carl.. The thing is i don't have a scanner at the moment, so the scanned files will be important to me, the physical photos are good for reference and having something to hold.. the prints of the boots shots certainly look a bit better than the files they've given me..
Good point though. Getting a flatbed scanner would be good, more uses but its an issue of space for it at the moment.. the true film scanners are a lot smaller form factor and so would be helpful in the space issues, but generally they're expensive.. i'm working through the links of reviews from above...
Cheers
Good point though. Getting a flatbed scanner would be good, more uses but its an issue of space for it at the moment.. the true film scanners are a lot smaller form factor and so would be helpful in the space issues, but generally they're expensive.. i'm working through the links of reviews from above...
Cheers
IanForber
Member
Jim,
I haven't yet found the resolve to take the plunge and do my own developing (mad, I know...) so I tend to send my films to Lab35, although I've heard Peak Imaging are good too. If I get any good ones, I get them scanned in by one of the Alamy-recommended scanning houses (R&K Photographic or Blueskyimages) and then output at whatever size I like via the printer. I have a nagging feeling that this is just wrong though - I feel decent b&w should be printed in a darkroom - I just don't do it!
Ian
I haven't yet found the resolve to take the plunge and do my own developing (mad, I know...) so I tend to send my films to Lab35, although I've heard Peak Imaging are good too. If I get any good ones, I get them scanned in by one of the Alamy-recommended scanning houses (R&K Photographic or Blueskyimages) and then output at whatever size I like via the printer. I have a nagging feeling that this is just wrong though - I feel decent b&w should be printed in a darkroom - I just don't do it!
Ian
pab
Established
If you want high street processing of XP2, my experience is that Jessops (at least in Sheffield) will give neutral prints.
I send everything (including black and white) to Peak Imaging- they are very reliable, make excellent prints and return your negatives in perfect condition.
I send everything (including black and white) to Peak Imaging- they are very reliable, make excellent prints and return your negatives in perfect condition.
Andy K
-
jimbobuk said:
If, as it seems, you are shooting film as a sideline, you will not need a hugely expensive film scanner. Something like the EPSON P3490 would suffice and will only set you back about £70 new. It is a flatbed with negative scanning facility.
As for developing, it is an easy process, and much, much cheaper than getting a lab to do it. As an example of High Street prices, Supa Snaps will ask about £11 to develop and print a 36 roll of bw (bear in mind they will print all 36 frames, and not very well at that), whereas developing it at home will cost about 25p (assuming you are only going to scan the negs and not print them). If you are going to print, developing at home gives you the option to only print those frames you want, so is still a lot cheaper than paying a lab. You could also just ask the lab to develop, cut and sleeve the negs and make no prints. But that will still cost more than home developing.
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Goodyear
Happy-snap ninja
I have had nothing but good experience with Peak - I used them pretty much exclusively until a pro-lab in Edinburgh moved closer to my end of town.jimbobuk[url said:
Fromt he experience I've had with Peak, I'd be very surprised if they couldn't accommadte this request.
jimbobuk
Established
well the madness doesn't stop.. on monday i picked up an epson 4490 scanner.. the price was ok.. and a nice gap from the higher scanners.. certainly enough to play with for now..
I've only had time to do a few pictures so far.. I will definitely need to learn more about how to grab the images, and handle them.. i've not tried vuescan yet either, just the epson scanner... which i do like in how it gives me individual files per frame... very clever.. pretty nice quality as well... comparable to scans i did off large prints in good condition, which i dont think is too bad at all.
I've also got my XP2 film back from boots and have put most of the files direct off the CD on my flickr pages here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/sets/72057594107919056/
Also i've just uploaded 2 shots that i've scanned via the 4490 at full 4800 resolution (I realise this is pushing the scanner but i didn't know whether scanning at 4800 and then resizing down by 30-50% would be better than scanning directly at 3200.. will have to ask about this elsewhere).. they had a colour cast too.. different to the boots ones (the colour of which i really like on some of the shots compared to straight b&w) which i stripped to grey scale.. tried to alter levels a bit but i was a bit out of my depth and the pictures have come out too dark compared to the boots cd... also overall they look soft compared to the boots aggressively sharpened files... I will need some real help on that as doing any kind of real sharpening just looked nasty at 1:1 viewing.. perhaps this is needed with a downsize to lower resolution to get the sharpness and quality up.. vuescan as well with have to be tried.
Anyways its all in order and i'm very happy with its output so far.. even 50% of 4800dpi files would be sufficient for fairly high sized prints and internet output.. that'll do for now... the chemicals and developing will happen... just going to take my time making sure its all safe for everything before i start.
Cheers.. your help and pointers would be appreciated, along with what you think of the pics my CL managed to take... I'm pretty chuffed
I've only had time to do a few pictures so far.. I will definitely need to learn more about how to grab the images, and handle them.. i've not tried vuescan yet either, just the epson scanner... which i do like in how it gives me individual files per frame... very clever.. pretty nice quality as well... comparable to scans i did off large prints in good condition, which i dont think is too bad at all.
I've also got my XP2 film back from boots and have put most of the files direct off the CD on my flickr pages here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/sets/72057594107919056/
Also i've just uploaded 2 shots that i've scanned via the 4490 at full 4800 resolution (I realise this is pushing the scanner but i didn't know whether scanning at 4800 and then resizing down by 30-50% would be better than scanning directly at 3200.. will have to ask about this elsewhere).. they had a colour cast too.. different to the boots ones (the colour of which i really like on some of the shots compared to straight b&w) which i stripped to grey scale.. tried to alter levels a bit but i was a bit out of my depth and the pictures have come out too dark compared to the boots cd... also overall they look soft compared to the boots aggressively sharpened files... I will need some real help on that as doing any kind of real sharpening just looked nasty at 1:1 viewing.. perhaps this is needed with a downsize to lower resolution to get the sharpness and quality up.. vuescan as well with have to be tried.
Anyways its all in order and i'm very happy with its output so far.. even 50% of 4800dpi files would be sufficient for fairly high sized prints and internet output.. that'll do for now... the chemicals and developing will happen... just going to take my time making sure its all safe for everything before i start.
Cheers.. your help and pointers would be appreciated, along with what you think of the pics my CL managed to take... I'm pretty chuffed
Buze
Established
4800dpi /will/ be soft, but I always scan at 4800 dpi to downsize to 2400 afterward. I open the 4800, give it a Noise Ninja if I want, then for black & white I use "Image Size" with "Bicubic SOFTER" to atenuate the grain. Then a bit of levels etc. Usualy afterward you can do a sharpening without pushing the grain too much.
I think the Epson software to be a bit brain dead. It works nicely for transparencies but for negatives it always pick a "slice" of the scan histogram. I have to manualy reset it to the whole tone range before scanning.
One trick that works well on B&W grainy shots is to use the Unsharp Mask as a "dehaze" or "enhance microcontrast" method : namely you use 20% with a large radius (50 or so) it's magic to have a photo that "pops" without too many artifacts (watch out for halos on high contrasts!)
As for developping home, I also do it for a few months. I ordered most of my kit at http://www.silverprint.co.uk . the choice of chemicals is hard, with 60 zillions opinions as to whats best etc. Here I went simple and "Ilford" and picked Ilfotec DDX, Ilfostop with indicator and Ilford Rapid Fixer. The Ilfotec is recommended for "pushing" films or fast films, and I wanted to do Delta 3200 so...
I got the Paterson tank from eBay (about £5!)
From silverprint I got:
+ a piece of black fabric to make my bathroom door lightproof
+ 3 500ml plastic containers for saving the stop/fix bath (1 spare)
+ One mixing jug
+ One thermometer (I tried a snazy infrared one, but that only gives surface temperature, so it doesn't work)
+ The chemicals in questions
I develop using a bassin that I fill halfwayish with 24C water. I put the stop, fix solution bottles & paterson wiith the film in there to get to the right temp while I prepare the dev. I use some of the water in the bassin for the dev solution, and for the wash. So that bassin is largely enough to so the whole development at the correct temp (by the end of the dev the water is down to 22C or so, well whithin Ilford recommended temp for the fix)
Sorry for the gorry details, but there isn't much info online it seems. When I started I really strugled to find any "basic" information on how to do stuff. All you get is usualy "I develop for 40 years in red+wine + car fuel and I get very ice prints, sir" but nothing more useful than that.
I think the Epson software to be a bit brain dead. It works nicely for transparencies but for negatives it always pick a "slice" of the scan histogram. I have to manualy reset it to the whole tone range before scanning.
One trick that works well on B&W grainy shots is to use the Unsharp Mask as a "dehaze" or "enhance microcontrast" method : namely you use 20% with a large radius (50 or so) it's magic to have a photo that "pops" without too many artifacts (watch out for halos on high contrasts!)
As for developping home, I also do it for a few months. I ordered most of my kit at http://www.silverprint.co.uk . the choice of chemicals is hard, with 60 zillions opinions as to whats best etc. Here I went simple and "Ilford" and picked Ilfotec DDX, Ilfostop with indicator and Ilford Rapid Fixer. The Ilfotec is recommended for "pushing" films or fast films, and I wanted to do Delta 3200 so...
I got the Paterson tank from eBay (about £5!)
From silverprint I got:
+ a piece of black fabric to make my bathroom door lightproof
+ 3 500ml plastic containers for saving the stop/fix bath (1 spare)
+ One mixing jug
+ One thermometer (I tried a snazy infrared one, but that only gives surface temperature, so it doesn't work)
+ The chemicals in questions
I develop using a bassin that I fill halfwayish with 24C water. I put the stop, fix solution bottles & paterson wiith the film in there to get to the right temp while I prepare the dev. I use some of the water in the bassin for the dev solution, and for the wash. So that bassin is largely enough to so the whole development at the correct temp (by the end of the dev the water is down to 22C or so, well whithin Ilford recommended temp for the fix)
Sorry for the gorry details, but there isn't much info online it seems. When I started I really strugled to find any "basic" information on how to do stuff. All you get is usualy "I develop for 40 years in red+wine + car fuel and I get very ice prints, sir" but nothing more useful than that.
ballfresno
Established
Jim,
you haven't said where in the UK you are but there's a shop on Tottenham Court Road in London which has a mini-lab and handles XP2 very well. I've found Boots and Jessops to give me green cast prints although the CD images are fine (mind you, I'd like higher than 2Mpixel scans...). If the shop on Tottenham Court Road is of interest, I'll check the name as I go home this afternoon when I walk by it.
cheers,
eric
you haven't said where in the UK you are but there's a shop on Tottenham Court Road in London which has a mini-lab and handles XP2 very well. I've found Boots and Jessops to give me green cast prints although the CD images are fine (mind you, I'd like higher than 2Mpixel scans...). If the shop on Tottenham Court Road is of interest, I'll check the name as I go home this afternoon when I walk by it.
cheers,
eric
clarence
ダメ
ballfresno said:
Hello Eric,
I live just off Tottenham Court Road. Do you mean West End Cameras? (it's next to the Spearmint Rhino, which you can't miss)
They charge only 3.99 for 35mm C41 dev and scan, which is the cheapest price I know.
Also does anyone know of anywhere that does a cheap dev and scan for 120 format? I haven't found any non-pro shops that scan entire rolls of 120 format, and Peak Imaging charges 15 pounds.
Thanks.
Clarence