Jeez, now 1.4 is not fast either anymore?
YYV_146
Well-known
Well, I did say not-so-fast. F2.8 would be not-fast...
But yes, for this price and size one would think that Leica could at least make it a F1.2, even if the difference is minor in practice.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
SaveKodak
Well-known
If it's actually getting out to customers sure but I haven't heard of anyone receiving a production model... if you have, great. I'm not sure if this particular point of interest is the most salient part of my comments but, again, ok.
michaelwj
----------------
It might not be optically better that the Otus (yet to be verified) but the autofocus speed is infinitely better
You have choices, "best" optically or most useful?They might be variable aperture, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. The standard zoom goes to 90mm, not 70mm, and the tele goes from 90-280mm, not 70-20mm. So your two lenses now get you from 24-280mm, instead of 24-200mm. The question is now if that range is more useful to you than the fixed aperture? You make your decision and buy your camera, everything is not for everyone.
Surely Sony's issue is not their light handling on the sensor, but the horrible feeling of holding it? It has to be the worst ergonomically designed camera - although I've never used one of those sigma abominations...)
Can't argue with the pricing and the naff gloves, but I suppose you need the gloves to charge the price
EDIT: All this is from someone who doesn't own or plan to an SL, or any digital mirrorless or DSLR. I'm not defending the SL, it's just a camera.
SaveKodak
Well-known
Idk man, looking at this comparison it just seems so close:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/12/29/crazy-comparison-leica-50-apo-vs-the-zeiss-planar-zm/
Granted, RF ppl are nuts (talking about myself here) about the subtleties of 50mm lenses, so I can see picking one over the other, but it is crazy close. Certainly closer than you might imagine given the price of the APO. I wish he would have included the current Summicron M too.
I am an admitted Zeiss guy though. I have the block diagram of the 50mm Distagon tattoo'd on my arm haha.
SaveKodak
Well-known
It might not be optically better that the Otus (yet to be verified) but the autofocus speed is infinitely better
They might be variable aperture, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. The standard zoom goes to 90mm, not 70mm, and the tele goes from 90-280mm, not 70-20mm. So your two lenses now get you from 24-280mm, instead of 24-200mm. The question is now if that range is more useful to you than the fixed aperture? You make your decision and buy your camera, everything is not for everyone.
Surely Sony's issue is not their light handling on the sensor, but the horrible feeling of holding it? It has to be the worst ergonomically designed camera - although I've never used one of those sigma abominations...)
Can't argue with the pricing and the naff gloves, but I suppose you need the gloves to charge the price
EDIT: All this is from someone who doesn't own or plan to an SL, or any digital mirrorless or DSLR. I'm not defending the SL, it's just a camera.
You do have me on AF speed haha. I doubt Sony would let them port any of the Otus lenses to FE mount. As for the zoom reach. Sure, yeah, ok. But the difference at tele are pretty slight, and the 24-90 already looses speed at 28mm. So it's not just at the ends. I think at 50mm you're looking at a 3.2 aperture. There just isn't much about a 50mm 3.2 that I find exciting. So it's the total package that becomes problematic not just the ends. I'd be more willing to forgive the tele for being a variable aperture lens generally.
As for the Sony camera design, it's definitely lacking. Can't argue with that. I'll deal with it for the price/performance ratio. I've never seen better quality from a 35mm digital than what i got out of the RX1RII. That BSI sensor is just incredible with a great lens in front of it. It just had a great subtlety of tone that I don't get from my Nikons. THe fact that it kept up with my D750 for low light was icing on the cake.
I hear what you are saying, but it's only a 1/3rd of a stop difference from the typical Nikon 2.8 zoom.
YYV_146
Well-known
Not that I have anything against Steve Huff, but his comparison posts don't really say much about how lenses perform in actual photography. For me, the APO Cron really shines with portraits because of the OOF transition, and it also has an excellent microcontrast without being overly contrasty like the ZM. It is close if all you shoot are leaves and rusty faucets, though.
...but I agree, the difference is completely disproportional to price. I don't think I would have bought one if I didn't get a great deal on a demo copy. And I can see why people would actually prefer the less technical draw. The APO 50 is for people who look at the Lux ASPH output and think "man, this would be more awesome if it were more clinical".
SaveKodak
Well-known
Haha so def not me. I can appreciate it's qualities regardless of my taste preferences tho.
michaelwj
----------------
@SaveKodak, IIRC, the Otus focuses with all the elements moving, the same as rangefinder lenses. Making it autofocus is no easy matter, as big elements don't accelerate fast enough, so you want the autofocus to be done with the lightest elements possible, which complicates things and requires an entirely different lens design.
Interestingly this was the big issue when Nikon changed from MF to AF and I think there is a 1001 nights article on the 1.4/85 AF that spoke in more detail about the issues.
On the AF side, the motor, gears, and electronics all take up space, and can't always be distributed wherever you want, making the lens bigger. The Otus and SL 50 are both huge, one has AF and in camera correctio, one is likely optically better without in camera corrections. Pick your poison.
Interestingly this was the big issue when Nikon changed from MF to AF and I think there is a 1001 nights article on the 1.4/85 AF that spoke in more detail about the issues.
On the AF side, the motor, gears, and electronics all take up space, and can't always be distributed wherever you want, making the lens bigger. The Otus and SL 50 are both huge, one has AF and in camera correctio, one is likely optically better without in camera corrections. Pick your poison.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
GEAR ALERT: 50 Lux-SL delivery today NYC.
Cal
Cal
maitani
Well-known
congrats, enjoy responsibly.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Range-rover
Mentor
Saw the lens and camera combo real sweet! enjoy it Cal!
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Bob,
Like I said, "Leica gives away a free gym membership with every native SL lens they sell." LOL.
I admire the comments about the size and weight. "Porky is a good knickname," but the real joy is how fast this cameras is and how much pleasure because of how elegant the lens is intergrated into the VF and screen. The SL with native lens is not built for comfort, it is built for speed and ease of use.
I set up the SL with a field of 40 focus points, but I use the joystick to select a single point focus. Know that my selectable metering is set to spot in manual mode, and my metering patch coincides with the focus point I select.
The field of crosses that overlays the image turns into a green rectangle around my chosen focus point as a focus lock indicator. I love that the area of focus is framed in a pronounced manner.
So the bad and ugly is that I will need a second battery because the AF consumes more energy than the manual focus lenses. In the past I could go out shooting and get close to 700 shots on one fully charged battery when shooting a MF lens, but now it will likely be closer to the 400 shots that Leica advertises.
So anyone with eyes should know that the 50 Lux-SL is remarkably big/huge, and the knickname "Porker" is apropriate, but while not built for comfort it is built for speed.
Know that if your focus area lacks contrast or edges that the AF will hunt, but the focus gets nailed and is not vague like on a D3X with 58/1.4 AF-G where it is hit or miss. The SL is mucho more accurate.
I rapidly learned that supporting the nose of the lens greatly helps steady the rig and makes for sharper images. In a way using the hood as an extension can b an asset to steady the camera. Think of spreading your hands apart as much as possible.
Cal
Range-rover
Mentor
I would not worry about the auto focus to much I know it does the job I saw it in the
pictures. When I was looking to buy a Fuji xpro-1 I read the autofocus was to slow but
when I got it, it's not all that bad it may focus a bit slower but it's more accurate in the
finished photo's and that's all that matters.
pictures. When I was looking to buy a Fuji xpro-1 I read the autofocus was to slow but
when I got it, it's not all that bad it may focus a bit slower but it's more accurate in the
finished photo's and that's all that matters.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Good luck with your new lens, Cal! I look forward to seeing some photos you make with it. Please post a couple.
The weather has been lovely—sunny and warm, top down motoring capable—the past two days. But dammitall I've been too busy to get the SL + new SL90-280 (aka, The Bazooka) out of the house and go shooting. I have time today ... and of course today is overcast and dull out there, cool and smudgy air. Perfect for ultrawide work.
I don't think that will stop me.
It was an interesting feeling handing over three heavy boxes of Leica cameras and lenses to the shipper as they go off for trade/consignment with the dealer to pay for the Bazooka. Will I miss having all that stuff in the closet? Frankly, not one bit. I wasn't really using it anyway and just holding on to things is never particularly rewarding to me.
Next up in sales: my last vestige of Pentax gear still on the shelves.
Onwards!
G
The weather has been lovely—sunny and warm, top down motoring capable—the past two days. But dammitall I've been too busy to get the SL + new SL90-280 (aka, The Bazooka) out of the house and go shooting. I have time today ... and of course today is overcast and dull out there, cool and smudgy air. Perfect for ultrawide work.
I don't think that will stop me.
It was an interesting feeling handing over three heavy boxes of Leica cameras and lenses to the shipper as they go off for trade/consignment with the dealer to pay for the Bazooka. Will I miss having all that stuff in the closet? Frankly, not one bit. I wasn't really using it anyway and just holding on to things is never particularly rewarding to me.
Next up in sales: my last vestige of Pentax gear still on the shelves.
Onwards!
G
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Godfrey,
I endear my 50 Lux-SL with the name "Porker." LOL.
Anyways I like the results and this camera is fun, fun and more fun.
Not built for comfort, but definitely built for speed.
Some shots I brought to the NYC Meet-Up were impressive using the 24-90 zoom shot at night at only 400 ISO and remarkably slow shutter speeds. The image stabilization built in the lens and optimized works remarkably great. One would think these wide open images were shot with a tripod. Crazy good. Opimization in the lens seems more advanced than in camera. The prints don't lie. Also the zoom at 24mm is very low distortion. There were some comments about that too.
BTW over the past month I started something I generally don't do: make B&W prints from color files. I have impressive results. Unfortunately I don't post. The prints are the real deal.
One subway shot taken with the 50 Lux-R of my gal coming down subway stairs at night in Fort Green was thought of being taken with a flash because of all the detail I revealed in the print.
Anyways I print more than what my calibrated EIZO can reveal in a darkened room set at 80 Lux. Again the prints don't lie.
Cal
I endear my 50 Lux-SL with the name "Porker." LOL.
Anyways I like the results and this camera is fun, fun and more fun.
Not built for comfort, but definitely built for speed.
Some shots I brought to the NYC Meet-Up were impressive using the 24-90 zoom shot at night at only 400 ISO and remarkably slow shutter speeds. The image stabilization built in the lens and optimized works remarkably great. One would think these wide open images were shot with a tripod. Crazy good. Opimization in the lens seems more advanced than in camera. The prints don't lie. Also the zoom at 24mm is very low distortion. There were some comments about that too.
BTW over the past month I started something I generally don't do: make B&W prints from color files. I have impressive results. Unfortunately I don't post. The prints are the real deal.
One subway shot taken with the 50 Lux-R of my gal coming down subway stairs at night in Fort Green was thought of being taken with a flash because of all the detail I revealed in the print.
Anyways I print more than what my calibrated EIZO can reveal in a darkened room set at 80 Lux. Again the prints don't lie.
Cal
Huss
Mentor
Built for speed?
The complaint from other users is that the AF of the 50 SL is horrendously slow.
And just for fun:
