We Surrender: sign of the hard times

BTW good photograph and good thread Chris. Worldwide we are all facing the same things it would seem. being a full time artist I have months where I make enough to see me through the bad times, but I also have plenty of Months where the bank fee's going out are greater than any income going into the bank. But in many ways I'm fortunate, if you are my age here, mid 50's, and looking for a job in the workforce your pretty much out of luck. One incentive by government here is to encourage young people to get a trade education, as you say we need mechanics and plumbers etc. But many 18 yrs olds don't want that as a first option for a career as they still see and feel the dream.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
We cannot all be engineers, doctors, and lawyers. There is a limit to how many of those that our society needs. We also need laborers, cashiers, waitresses, mechanics, construction workers, service workers..
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The business world knows this, but I think they are unwilling to address it. Seems like an attitude of "If we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist." If America is to regain some of what it used to be, we need to address this problem, otherwise the gap between the haves and have-nots is going to expand.

A little more on topic. I think more photos like yours need to get around to help wake people up.
 
things will not change unless the market changes. the market will change when almost all people no longer buy frills, no longer go into debt for a restaurant meal, no longer buy new cars every two-four years, no longer buy houses two-three times larger than they really need, no longer buy every hot new cell phone when it is upgrade time. hey, i've been down the casual debt route. no more, no more.
but i can't blame wall street for making a buck betting on the desires of american (or world) consumers. there will still be money to be made when enough people stop chasing stuff for the sake of stuff. don't fall for the hype ...
 
paulfish4570 said:
things will not change unless the market changes. the market will change when almost all people no longer buy frills, no longer go into debt for a restaurant meal, no longer buy new cars every two-four years, no longer buy houses two-three times larger than they really need, no longer buy every hot new cell phone when it is upgrade time. hey, i've been down the casual debt route. no more, no more.
but i can't blame wall street for making a buck betting on the desires of american (or world) consumers. there will still be money to be made when enough people stop chasing stuff for the sake of stuff. don't fall for the hype ...
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But that consumerism is the basis of capitalism, no?
 
paulfish4570 said:
things will not change unless the market changes. the market will change when almost all people no longer buy frills, no longer go into debt for a restaurant meal, no longer buy new cars every two-four years, no longer buy houses two-three times larger than they really need, no longer buy every hot new cell phone when it is upgrade time. hey, i've been down the casual debt route. no more, no more.
but i can't blame wall street for making a buck betting on the desires of american (or world) consumers. there will still be money to be made when enough people stop chasing stuff for the sake of stuff. don't fall for the hype ...
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...and don't fall for GAS either!:D Hey! hows that digital camera hunt coming along.:D:D Sorry Paul...I couldn't resist.;) I'm guilty at times too, but hey! it helps out the seller & I'm all for that.:)
 
paulfish4570 said:
things will not change unless the market changes. the market will change when almost all people no longer buy frills, no longer go into debt for a restaurant meal, no longer buy new cars every two-four years, no longer buy houses two-three times larger than they really need, no longer buy every hot new cell phone when it is upgrade time. hey, i've been down the casual debt route. no more, no more.
but i can't blame wall street for making a buck betting on the desires of american (or world) consumers. there will still be money to be made when enough people stop chasing stuff for the sake of stuff. don't fall for the hype ...
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So very true Paul! I am astounded by the frequency some friends of mine replace phones computers cameras houses cars etc etc! Like you I prefer to spend less and therefore need to earn less. But the world economy is based on those very desires and consuming, and the assumption it can be sustained and will continue. There needs to be a change but if that change happens it will much more painful than things are now!
 
I make plenty of money. I've always made plenty of money. I hardly ever do any work, too.

Once in a while I force myself to work a little harder, and I make more money. I sure do hate working. I'm a lazy person. It's lucky for me I have a good brain.
 
I Love Film said:
I make plenty of money. I've always made plenty of money. I hardly ever do any work, too.

Once in a while I force myself to work a little harder, and I make more money. I sure do hate working. I'm a lazy person. It's lucky for me I have a good brain.
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And every once in a while you like to rub people's noses in it?
 
I Love Film said:
I make plenty of money. I've always made plenty of money. I hardly ever do any work, too.

Once in a while I force myself to work a little harder, and I make more money. I sure do hate working. I'm a lazy person. It's lucky for me I have a good brain.
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Your obviously not a writer, so how does that good brain make you money :)
 
FrankS said:
And every once in a while you like to rub people's noses in it?
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I'm not rubbing noses in it.

There is thread after thread about not having enough money. I just posted an opposite view. It's merely a statement of fact, with no other intent.

"Money is not the root of all evil. The LACK of money is the root of all evil"
- Reverent Ike
 
I Love Film said:
I'm not rubbing noses in it.

There is thread after thread about not having enough money. I just posted an opposite view. It's merely a statement of fact, with no other intent.

"Money is not the root of all evil. The LACK of money is the root of all evil"
- Reverent Ike
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Reverend Ike was a crook! It's the LOVE of money thats evil.
 
Chris' picture reminds us that real people have real problems when businesses go under. And, although we might love the image of the mom and pop operation, it hurts just as much when the big corporation you work for goes belly up or downsizes or outsources.

As much as we might like these little shops, we do like the services and products brought to us by global corporate capitalism. Mom and pop operations don't make computer chips, or airplanes, or cars, or ship New Zealand apples to Wisconsin in March. And, of course, we really like buying cameras made in Germany and Asia.

We are dependent on those linkages, and we've spent centuries getting here. The challenge we face is how to curb the abuses of global corporate capitalism while preserving its benefits.

BTW, anyone know if Reverend Ike really said, "Send all your money to God, care of me!"?
 
Family own and run shops typically sell the things made by others, custom jewelry and crafts, buy and sell things like antiques, or are in the restaurant business. Ice cream shop all the way to fine-dining. Most of them rely on your discretionary income. Most can't afford to pay more than $8/hr. Many are calling it quits.

This thread veered far from critiquing the Photograph, and even past the topic of family run businesses. We gave our business to one family run restaurant last night, called the waitress on her cell phone to make reservations while she was on her way to work. Slow night- I always take that into consideration when computing the tip.
 
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Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Its actually a large city, there have been MANY places closed by the recession here, and real unemployment is nearly 30% here.
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Unemployment in USA as a whole must be close to 30%. Not 9,9%.

Try to follow my reasoning:

Norway's population is roughly 4,85 million. the workforce, included the ca. 4% unemployed is 2,75 million people: A workforce of ca 56,7% of the total population. At it's best, this fraction was slightly above 60%, some 20 years ago when our average age of the population was lower than today. The gross workforce falls due to an aging population.

USA has an young population. Even younger than Norway had back in the early 90'. So, the potential workforce should be slightly above 60% of the total population of more than 300 million people. That is a potential workforce of 'at least' 200 million people. To my knowledge (correct me if I am wrong) the number of employed people in USA is 'slightly less than 138 million in USA. Which means that 62 million people in USA 'should' have a job, but have not.

That is an unemployment rate of 31%.
 
The unemployment calculation is based on the number of people seeking a job. There are still "one-income families" where one partner stays home. It does not include people that have just given up looking for a job.

as far as the original image- it struck close, you get to know the people running shops and small businesses.

We use a local machine shop for a good bit of work, custom optical fixtures and the like. They are doing quite well.

I've never had anyone "beg" me for a job. I've pushed "up the chain" to hire some people because they were in hard times.

And- I've never bothered to look for a job after I graduated. I was a Co-Op student. in 1979.
 
Olsen, the median age in Norway is 40, and in the U.S. it is 36.9. The unemployment rate was last reported at 9.1 percent for September. Due to the way that statistic is compiled, it does not include part-time workers who want full-time work or unemployed people who have stopped looking for work, people who've gone back to school, self-employed in hard times, etc. I.e., people who don't do anything to flag themselves in a given month won't be noticed and counted.

Like the town I grew up in Ohio, Chris' Fort Wayne is an older midwestern industrial city that has seen much of its industrial base vanish. This has been going on for 30 years or more. Current hard times add to the misery, but they only make a bad situation worse.

Photos like Chris' remind us that real people are behind the statistics.

So, most estimates of the "real" unemployment rate are at 16-18 percent.
 
The difference in median age between Norway 'might' seem small. But makes a huge difference regarding 'the potential work force'. Norway's problem is an aging population, like South Korea, Japan and much of Northern Europe.

Unemployment figures are so politicized, regardless of country, that I (we, the company I work for) simply disregard them. The crucial question is; 'why isn't 2/3 of the population employed'? Demographics is one factor. Traditions regarding the fraction of women at work is another. Both Norway and USA have very high employment of women in their workforce, though.
 
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