photogdave
Shops local
Here we go:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/hogan-leica.shtml
Sometimes I wonder if these ponderers actually REALLY use rangefinders. A flip EVF inside the viewfinder? If you want to use long lenses use your stinkin' DLSR! :bang:
I really don't get the lust for a monochrome digicam. My feeling is just shoot film but I know it's been on many people's wish lists for a while, so I'll back off on that point!
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/hogan-leica.shtml
Sometimes I wonder if these ponderers actually REALLY use rangefinders. A flip EVF inside the viewfinder? If you want to use long lenses use your stinkin' DLSR! :bang:
I really don't get the lust for a monochrome digicam. My feeling is just shoot film but I know it's been on many people's wish lists for a while, so I'll back off on that point!
monochromejrnl
Well-known
Online reviews/prognostications etc. depend on traffic to make $$$ - why is it surprising when they post things that are controversial? ;P
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
A La Ken Rockwell..
I rarely visit either site - there may be some archived info that's worthy of reading up on but, prognostication, conjecture and sooth saying is best left to those "psychics" that have the neon signs in their home windows.
Cheers,
Dave
Solinar
Analog Preferred
When the M10 is released, I am looking forward to speculation on the future Leica M11.
My guess is that a special edition Leica M9m won't make those folks happy who are now clamoring for a totally revamped M3 - I mean M9.
A rangefinder is not my first choice for long focal length lenses. So, I wish the chorus that are asking for a paradigm shift at Leica will drop the long focal length lens issue from their line up.
My guess is that a special edition Leica M9m won't make those folks happy who are now clamoring for a totally revamped M3 - I mean M9.
A rangefinder is not my first choice for long focal length lenses. So, I wish the chorus that are asking for a paradigm shift at Leica will drop the long focal length lens issue from their line up.
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J J Kapsberger
Well-known
Agreed. And what lenses would be used with it? I can't see Leica designing a set of lenses longer than 90mm to work with the EVF. And competent shooters don't need such a device to focus lenses in the traditional RF FL range.
And it seems to me that the technological complexity of such a device would make it very costly if not unfeasible.
swoop
Well-known
I think the M9.2 and M10 will be sold simultaneously. Because the M10 will probably be a change to the M legacy to increase interest in the brand. Leica knows its sales right now are based on a 50 year reputation. They can get some wealthy and intrigued amateurs. And maybe a few hundred professionals. But what they really need to increase revenue is more appeal in terms of features and price to the joe blow family album shooter and artistic emo kid markets.
The only way I can imagine improving the M9 is with a better sensor. In terms of Dynamic Range and ISO sensitivity. Improving edge performance with wide angle lenses, slimming down the body to M7/MP depth. And adding viewfinder magnification options. Otherwise, what else is there to do? Add video and liveview? Those are just gimmicks to generate sales by the SLR makers.
Leica took a step in the right direction with the Digilux series and now with the S2. Except not so high end. They just need to create their own SLR line. Preferably with 1.3x crop sensors and price it at or moderately above the Nikon D700 and Canon 5D. I think a $3k Leica DSLR with Leica lenses and a 1.3x crop would sell well. It could be as easy as reinventing the R line except with new autofocus lenses.
The X1 is a great idea. It's just way overpriced for what it is. For the price of an X1 you can have a 7D/D300 and a decent lens.
The only way I can imagine improving the M9 is with a better sensor. In terms of Dynamic Range and ISO sensitivity. Improving edge performance with wide angle lenses, slimming down the body to M7/MP depth. And adding viewfinder magnification options. Otherwise, what else is there to do? Add video and liveview? Those are just gimmicks to generate sales by the SLR makers.
Leica took a step in the right direction with the Digilux series and now with the S2. Except not so high end. They just need to create their own SLR line. Preferably with 1.3x crop sensors and price it at or moderately above the Nikon D700 and Canon 5D. I think a $3k Leica DSLR with Leica lenses and a 1.3x crop would sell well. It could be as easy as reinventing the R line except with new autofocus lenses.
The X1 is a great idea. It's just way overpriced for what it is. For the price of an X1 you can have a 7D/D300 and a decent lens.
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Pickett Wilson
Mentor
Yeah, wouldn't want a Leica to be costly, for sure.
MartinP
Mentor
Well, possibly slightly against the stream on this thread, but a mono-only sensor could potentially make lovely black-and-white shots. The only problem would then be having to use a computer to print them, but many people apparently enjoy that. I sit behind one for up to 13,5 hours (not usually that long) a day already, and I have a darkroom as relaxation so ....
The evf thing is a non-solution. Live-view with one of those magnified focussing-patches, like on point-and-shoots for manual work, would be good for macro work (giving lots of possible extra uses for that good sensor) and even allowing for improved framing and focus with 135mm.
The evf thing is a non-solution. Live-view with one of those magnified focussing-patches, like on point-and-shoots for manual work, would be good for macro work (giving lots of possible extra uses for that good sensor) and even allowing for improved framing and focus with 135mm.
Arjay
Time Traveller
Take it easy folks! Thom may not yet have arrived at a viable concept for a potential M10 that helps Leitz win new users (and not just people that have grown up using traditional cameras like me), but he's making a valid point. If Leitz wants to be something different than essentially a manufacturer who caters for traditionalists and collectors, the company will invariably have to look for an additional clientele.
Thom Hogan is certainly right with his closing remark in his article:
Also, if Leica would be able to address a larger user base with its products beyond the afficionados, and the well-to-do, we all would benefit, because with growing volume, sales prices might at last arrive at a more realistic level (says someone, who right now certainly cannot afford an M9).
Thom Hogan is certainly right with his closing remark in his article:
I don't necessarily agree with his comments on longer focal lengths, because that is and will remain to be the domain of DSLRs. But if Leitz manages to offer better support for focusing and maybe even offers a viewfinder with varying FOV, that would indeed be a progress. Its nice that we can buy additional external viewfinders, but if we could do without, our bags would be lighter and using the camera would also become easier.Thom Hogan / LL said:
Also, if Leica would be able to address a larger user base with its products beyond the afficionados, and the well-to-do, we all would benefit, because with growing volume, sales prices might at last arrive at a more realistic level (says someone, who right now certainly cannot afford an M9).
kuzano
Mentor
Well...................
Well...................
I'm pretty much of the opinion that Leica may get digital right by the M13.
Do you want to hear my thoughts on that model? I am at least as accurate as anyone out there on the M10 VM (Vapor Model) or
(Smoke and semi opaque mirrors)
Well...................
I'm pretty much of the opinion that Leica may get digital right by the M13.
Do you want to hear my thoughts on that model? I am at least as accurate as anyone out there on the M10 VM (Vapor Model) or
(Smoke and semi opaque mirrors)
biggambi
Vivere!
Suppositions and differing needs are a mix for discontent. The M9 is what the community has been asking Leica to make, and before it is even widely available and put to use by many. It is declared to be insufficient and lacking. It is always easy to be a critic, but it is not so easy to actually create something. I think I will try it and make up my own mind.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
For people that want all this crap in their "M" camera; go buy a DSLR. Leave us to our "antiques" as we like them just fine. Must be working for Leica if they can't even catch up to demand.
Hey! No fair! You take PICTURES with your Leicas, instead of staring at them, deciding you know better than Leica, and trying to turn them into something that could be produced more cheaply in China.
Cheers,
R.
Renzsu
Well-known
Jeez, all this talk about an M10 and the M9 hasn't even been out for half a year.. I thought it was fashionable to laugh at Canon and Nikon users because they were always looking forward to the next big camera coming out (tongue firmly in cheek, don't worry).. guess I was wrong huh (I haven't read a word yet about people discussing the next Canon 5D for example, all of a sudden up is down and down is up it seems!)
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
It's times like this that I wish Roger would chime in with one of his usual "Leica can do whatever the hell they want and you can either buy it or not" rants
Dave
Dave
Roger Hicks
Mentor
It's times like this that I wish Roger would chime in with one of his usual "Leica can do whatever the hell they want and you can either buy it or not" rants
Dave
Dear Dave,
Not if the PRC 60th Anniversary camera is real. I know China is a big market, but...
But yeah, basically. I have a sneaking suspicion that someone who's been making Leicas for 85 years might know slightly more about it than the average amateur, including myself.
Cheers,
R.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Leica and the M9 are becoming like a newly elected political party ... we vote them in and then we pick apart their every move.
The M9 will never set the world alight sales wise because it's only been designed to cater to a niche market in the first place ... and that niche needs plenty of loose change because it's hellishly expensive also.
Anyone who's not happy with what the M9 offers needs a DSLR and should stop thinking about what the M10, M11 or any subsequent model should or could offer. I suppose it's part of human nature not to be satisfied with what's in front of us or we woudn't have walked on the moon, circumnavigated the globe in hot air baloons, sailed the seven seas etc etc.
BUT ... leave the bloody M9 alone and just accept that it is what it is ... a fifty year old digital camera for people with too much money and a foot firmly planted in history!
The M9 will never set the world alight sales wise because it's only been designed to cater to a niche market in the first place ... and that niche needs plenty of loose change because it's hellishly expensive also.
Anyone who's not happy with what the M9 offers needs a DSLR and should stop thinking about what the M10, M11 or any subsequent model should or could offer. I suppose it's part of human nature not to be satisfied with what's in front of us or we woudn't have walked on the moon, circumnavigated the globe in hot air baloons, sailed the seven seas etc etc.
BUT ... leave the bloody M9 alone and just accept that it is what it is ... a fifty year old digital camera for people with too much money and a foot firmly planted in history!
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So with all of these new m Models on the Horizon, anybody want to Dump their M9 before the prices drop like rocks...
I'll be glad to take it off their hands.
I'll be glad to take it off their hands.
Roger Hicks
Mentor
Leica and the M9 are becoming like a newly elected political party ... we vote them in and then we pick apart their every move.
The M9 will never set the world alight sales wise because it's only been designed to cater to a niche market in the first place ... and that niche needs plenty of loose change because it's hellishly expensive also.
Anyone who's not happy with what the M9 offers needs a DSLR and should stop thinking about what the M10, M11 or any subsequent model should or could offer. I suppose it's part of human nature not to be satisfied with what's in front of us or we woudn't have walked on the moon, circumnavigated the globe in hot air baloons, sailed the seven seas etc etc.
BUT ... leave the bloody M9 alone and just accept that it is what it is ... a fifty year old digital camera for people with too much money and a foot firmly planted in history!
Highlighted portion: Seconded.
Can't agree with 'too much money', though. Would that I had!
Cheers,
R.
