Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
When I was a teenager, I got hold of an old issue of Modern Photography that had an article about the Chinese camera industry. It might have been written by Jason Schneider, but I can't remember for sure. Might have been Herbert Keppler.
The magazine was from 1985, long before Japanese companies began making their products in China. The Chinese camera industry made stuff just for their domestic market, and the article ridiculed the poor quality, rough finish, and primitivity of the cameras, which were copies of obsolete 1960s-era Japanese cameras. There was a folding 6x6 rangefinder, a compact 35mm fixed lens rangefinder (like a Canonet or Minolta HiMatic), a 6x6 TLR and a 35mm SLR. The TLRs were later marketed worldwide by the Chinese, but the other cameras were not and are not well known in the west.
I remember the description of the 35mm SLR, which was called the Seagull DF-1. It said something like "Have you ever dreamed of shooting a poorly finished, clunky, barely functional meterless manual 35mm SLR? The Seagull DF-1 is for you!" The camera was actually a crudely made copy of an early Minolta, like a SR-2. Even had the Minolta lens mount and came with a 50mm f2 lens that looked to copy the external appearance of a Minolta lens.
Back in 2003, I saw one of these Seagull DF-1 cameras for sale cheap on eBay from an American seller, so I bought it just to play with! Here it is:
Interestingly, the lens on mine looks to have copied its external appearance from a Pentax M-series lens!
The camera lived up to the magazine article's description. It was crudely made, poorly finished. The shutter release is hard to press (the article mentioned that) and the camera fires with a loud jarring CLUNK and practically jumps in your hand from the vibration! Using a soft release makes it a lot easier to press the shutter button smoothly.
Interestingly, the lens is VERY good! The two photos below are ones I made with it back in 2003. The kid in the pics is my son, who just graduated from college. He was six years old in these photos.
This was shot wide open at f2 and 1/30 of a second according to my notes. It is a little soft but not bad. His eyelashes are pretty sharp in the fullsize scan.
This one is much sharper. My notes don't say what aperture, but I'm guessing probably something like f11 based on the depth of field. This one is tack sharp.
I found the camera on my shelf last week and decided to run a roll of film through it. The images impressed me, very sharp. I haven't had time to scan the new ones yet, but will post them in a couple days.
I don't think I'd use the camera all the time, I suspect it would not hold up to heavy use. Its a fun toy to play with every once in a while though!
The magazine was from 1985, long before Japanese companies began making their products in China. The Chinese camera industry made stuff just for their domestic market, and the article ridiculed the poor quality, rough finish, and primitivity of the cameras, which were copies of obsolete 1960s-era Japanese cameras. There was a folding 6x6 rangefinder, a compact 35mm fixed lens rangefinder (like a Canonet or Minolta HiMatic), a 6x6 TLR and a 35mm SLR. The TLRs were later marketed worldwide by the Chinese, but the other cameras were not and are not well known in the west.
I remember the description of the 35mm SLR, which was called the Seagull DF-1. It said something like "Have you ever dreamed of shooting a poorly finished, clunky, barely functional meterless manual 35mm SLR? The Seagull DF-1 is for you!" The camera was actually a crudely made copy of an early Minolta, like a SR-2. Even had the Minolta lens mount and came with a 50mm f2 lens that looked to copy the external appearance of a Minolta lens.
Back in 2003, I saw one of these Seagull DF-1 cameras for sale cheap on eBay from an American seller, so I bought it just to play with! Here it is:
Interestingly, the lens on mine looks to have copied its external appearance from a Pentax M-series lens!
The camera lived up to the magazine article's description. It was crudely made, poorly finished. The shutter release is hard to press (the article mentioned that) and the camera fires with a loud jarring CLUNK and practically jumps in your hand from the vibration! Using a soft release makes it a lot easier to press the shutter button smoothly.
Interestingly, the lens is VERY good! The two photos below are ones I made with it back in 2003. The kid in the pics is my son, who just graduated from college. He was six years old in these photos.
This was shot wide open at f2 and 1/30 of a second according to my notes. It is a little soft but not bad. His eyelashes are pretty sharp in the fullsize scan.
This one is much sharper. My notes don't say what aperture, but I'm guessing probably something like f11 based on the depth of field. This one is tack sharp.
I found the camera on my shelf last week and decided to run a roll of film through it. The images impressed me, very sharp. I haven't had time to scan the new ones yet, but will post them in a couple days.
I don't think I'd use the camera all the time, I suspect it would not hold up to heavy use. Its a fun toy to play with every once in a while though!
ray*j*gun
Mentor
Thats what I love about this forum. Gear of all kinds but talent that shows through any photographic tool.
Archlich
Well-known
I've read that the price for one of these was 460 RMB (~$230 USD) back in 1982, roughly half a year worth of a Chinese family's income at the time. Seems like the film transportation mechanism (lots of poor quality gears and springs) was especially prone to breaking.
The lens is likely a licensed copy of the Pentax-M 50/2 supplied by Huaying Optics, a former military subsidiary (like almost all Chinese optical makers back then) located in the mountains of Szechuan.
The lens is likely a licensed copy of the Pentax-M 50/2 supplied by Huaying Optics, a former military subsidiary (like almost all Chinese optical makers back then) located in the mountains of Szechuan.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Thanks, Ray!
Wow that's expensive. Really $230 is expensive for it now, considering the build-quality. I'm not surprised by what you said about the wind mechanism, it feels weak and rough.
I remember seeing the Seagull TLR back in the 90s...
The photos look good from the slr. Interesting wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_Camera
The photos look good from the slr. Interesting wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_Camera
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
That's a Seagull 4A, which was the top of the line Seagull TLR (they made some cheaper models that had knob wind instead of a crank).
I actually had one of those briefly. Bought it new and it lasted 6 rolls of film before the shutter release mechanism broke! The 35mm SLR has actually proven more reliable, though the TLR I had was better finished and smoother in operation. The lens, like the one on the DF-1, was VERY sharp!
JeffS7444
Well-known
Looks like Minolta sold them the tooling for the SR2.
nzhang
Member
Seagull df-1 was my first camera. My parent bought for me in 1986. At that time this camera was in short supply and we waited for two month to get mine. This camera was original designed during culture revolution period in 1960s, and since then in limited production for professional usage. Until color films became popular in China after open door policy established, Consumers started to try to find 35mm cameras, and import camera still too expensive for average people in China. Seagull slr camera was in right position for the market and in huge demand from amateurs. I think Factory workers made these cameras must be stressed to meet such demands and assembled camera in hurry.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Minolta and Seagull had a relationship. In the 80s, when Minolta moved production of their last MD mount cameras to China, they contracted the work to the Seagull factory. Seagull sold some of the cameras, like the X370n, under the Seagull name in China. The funny thing is, they even copied Minolta's graphic design for the boxes and instruction manuals!
This eBay listing shows an example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SEAGULL-DF-300-With-SEAGULL-50-1-8/333597217928
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I found the Modern Photography article on the DF-1 and other Chinese cameras! It was written by Jason Schneider. There's a guy on Flickr with scans of thousands of pages of old Modern Photography articles. I searched through it to see if he had the Chinese Camera article I mentioned in this thread...took a while but it was there!
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Here's the main page for his photostream if you want to explore more old Modern Photography articles.
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Here's the main page for his photostream if you want to explore more old Modern Photography articles.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Finally found time to scan the photos I shot last month with the Seagull DF-1 camera! The sharpness of the lens is incredible. This is my cat, Sneaky, hard at work being a cat.
Will post more later today!
David Murphy
Mentor
I've owned a Seagull TLR and a Shanghai LTM rangefinder. The Seagull worked fairly well, and made OK images, but it had some notable build issues (like razor sharp metal edges in the film compartment). The Shanghai build was worse than a bad copy of a Fed, but it was certainly an interesting camera for a collector.
On the other hand, the early Minolta SR rangefinders mentioned above weren't exactly big winners in my book either - OK enough, but pretty basic and marginally reliable - nothing like the later SRT line (I own or have owned and used several of them too).
The New York camera companies (Adorama and such) were selling Seagull TLR's until only about 10 or 12 years ago - then they vanished - like most film cameras.
On the other hand, the early Minolta SR rangefinders mentioned above weren't exactly big winners in my book either - OK enough, but pretty basic and marginally reliable - nothing like the later SRT line (I own or have owned and used several of them too).
The New York camera companies (Adorama and such) were selling Seagull TLR's until only about 10 or 12 years ago - then they vanished - like most film cameras.
David Murphy
Mentor
I was going to say, that lens on the DF-1 looks a lot like a Minolta lens! The Chinese were smart to re-use a Minolta design if that's what they did.
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
It actually looks identical to a Pentax M-Series K-mount lens.
https://www.kenrockwell.com/pentax/35mm/lenses/50mm-f17-smc-m.htm
Here's another photo made with the Seagull camera and lens:
My neighbor's garage.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Here's the last of the new photos done with the Seagull 35mm SLR. I love the tonality and detail in these images.
farlymac
PF McFarland
I hope that DF-1 holds up for you, Chris. You're getting a lot more out of it than most of us would.
PF
PF
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Yeah, I'm going to have to use it more. I am very impressed with the image quality! I guess if the camera dies, I can always pick up an old Minolta to put the lens on...they use the same mount
sebastel
coarse art umbrascriptor
minolta lenses turn into the other direction, both the aperture and the distance ring. i also think this is more of a pentax copy.
just wonder how shanghai camera factory dealt with the stop down mechanism (automatic diaphragm).
well ... never mind. looks like a good one.
cheers,
sebastian
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
The stop down mechanism is the same as a Minolta, and the lens has the Minolta mount. Only the exterior styling is Pentaxian!
I don't know if the optics are copied from Minolta or Pentax,or someone else. Could even be an original optical formula