Gatorguy
Member
I don't disagree that in the example you showed, it is not.
That specific example is at odds with similar chart tests done by my technician. That specific sample also does not entirely agree with results reported by some other companies doing debayering. I do know for certainty that in some edge cases, the samples posted by DPR were flawed, not representative of what owners should expect. Firmware versions at the time of testing and/or choices of lenses used for the images may not have been the best. I don't know how the Iridient raw converter reportedly used by DPR compares to what we use, or what limitations it may have, if any, with certain cameras, especially those with non-standard sensors. I've seen mention that Iridient has to open in RGB first before converting back to monochrome. Avoiding the demosaic process altogether, Monochrome2DNG in my case, is essential for best results.
From the few comparisons of image captures by my color K-1 compared to my monochrome K-1 I see an obvious slant in favor of the debayered one in many of them. Not all, but dependent on the scene and lighting and choice of raw processor, it can be very apparent. But that may not be fair since when I shoot with a monochrome camera it's with a different mindset. I search scenes for their monochrome potential and not the color elements.
It's not unlike comparing a high-res pixel shift image to a standard one taken by your own camera or mine; It's not always so clear that one is supposedly four (3?) times better resolved than the other unless you've successfully captured the shot with that intent, a big reason why I don't often bother, nor do most of the guys I know with pixel-shift capable cameras. Much of the time no one can tell any difference. But when the stars align, it's obvious to you that it works isn't it?
Your Panny capturing the full-color value in every pixel using high-res mode is not unlike my K1, or any other dedicated monochrome, capturing the full luminance value in every pixel using essentially always-on high-res mode, right?
Anyway, you asked how i came up with 80mp and I explained it, right or wrong. But now we're straying into attempts to establish quantifiable specifications and getting away from simply enjoying our monochrome cameras for what they are and what they capture. Done correctly I can see the very obvious and significant improvement in fine detail and tonality even if another viewer of my downsized for the web images can't. Maybe we can we just enjoy our monochrome photography and the discussions about it instead of worrying over degrees of resolution.
That specific example is at odds with similar chart tests done by my technician. That specific sample also does not entirely agree with results reported by some other companies doing debayering. I do know for certainty that in some edge cases, the samples posted by DPR were flawed, not representative of what owners should expect. Firmware versions at the time of testing and/or choices of lenses used for the images may not have been the best. I don't know how the Iridient raw converter reportedly used by DPR compares to what we use, or what limitations it may have, if any, with certain cameras, especially those with non-standard sensors. I've seen mention that Iridient has to open in RGB first before converting back to monochrome. Avoiding the demosaic process altogether, Monochrome2DNG in my case, is essential for best results.
From the few comparisons of image captures by my color K-1 compared to my monochrome K-1 I see an obvious slant in favor of the debayered one in many of them. Not all, but dependent on the scene and lighting and choice of raw processor, it can be very apparent. But that may not be fair since when I shoot with a monochrome camera it's with a different mindset. I search scenes for their monochrome potential and not the color elements.
It's not unlike comparing a high-res pixel shift image to a standard one taken by your own camera or mine; It's not always so clear that one is supposedly four (3?) times better resolved than the other unless you've successfully captured the shot with that intent, a big reason why I don't often bother, nor do most of the guys I know with pixel-shift capable cameras. Much of the time no one can tell any difference. But when the stars align, it's obvious to you that it works isn't it?
Your Panny capturing the full-color value in every pixel using high-res mode is not unlike my K1, or any other dedicated monochrome, capturing the full luminance value in every pixel using essentially always-on high-res mode, right?
Anyway, you asked how i came up with 80mp and I explained it, right or wrong. But now we're straying into attempts to establish quantifiable specifications and getting away from simply enjoying our monochrome cameras for what they are and what they capture. Done correctly I can see the very obvious and significant improvement in fine detail and tonality even if another viewer of my downsized for the web images can't. Maybe we can we just enjoy our monochrome photography and the discussions about it instead of worrying over degrees of resolution.
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Gatorguy
Member
Gatorguy
Member
Gatorguy
Member
My son passed from a drug overdose nearly three years ago. Here is where I'll still sit and talk with him once in awhile.
Debayered Pentax K-1 - Zeiss Jena 135 MC Electric @1/125 f3.5 ISO400, spot meter
Debayered Pentax K-1 - Zeiss Jena 135 MC Electric @1/125 f3.5 ISO400, spot meter
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Freakscene
Obscure member
It’s a really nice photo, and a beautiful place to sit. Words are inadequate but am sending positive thoughts.
Gatorguy
Member
Thank you. It's a private and quiet spot that's helped me heal.
35photo
Well-known
I’ve been shooting my GFX 50R with the Acros profile it’s been really great! Watched a YouTube video of a guy who compared the Acros profile vs a film scan of Acros I mean pretty indistinguishable from each other! You could barely tell the difference… impressive! I'm really happy with tones and textures in my GFX Acros images! I’m not a big Black and White shooter these days but still maybe interested in a Leica Mono maybe down or I might get an adapter to shoot my M lenses on the GFX in 35mm crop mode for black and white images. My Fuji 63 2.8 is a mighty fine with B&W images.
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agentlossing
Well-known
As digital sensors have gotten better and better dynamic range, I've noticed that their B&W output is improving a lot.
35photo
Well-known
Yeah, it's crazy how much detail in the shadows I pull out of a GFX file.... the tones are nice and smooth... My GFX Acros images in certain light have this beautiful almost silvery tonality that really pleasing to me.
agentlossing
Well-known
And it's also not just the information in the highs and lows, but the middle and how robust and smooth the middle information is. That's where film really shines in my opinion, and it's the mark of a good monochrome digital image too.
35photo
Well-known
Totally 100% LOVE the midrange tones on my GFX Acros images! The magic is in the midrange
Gatorguy
Member
1st photo:
debayered K1 and H DFA21
2nd is with the FA35
debayered K1 and H DFA21
2nd is with the FA35
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Gatorguy
Member
Purposely shot 5 stops under, followed by a quick shadow recovery in PS.
Gatorguy
Member
100% CROP
Debayered K-1
Gatorguy
Member
And for anyone contemplating a wide lens for Pentax full-frame, here's three: A Laowa 12 Zero-D, a Pentax A16 Fisheye, and a Pentax H DFA21 all taken from the same position
Gatorguy
Member
debayered K-1 and HD DFA21
Gatorguy
Member
Even debayered APS-C cameras like my old K-3 (not K-3III) 24mp sensor can deliver near medium-format quality. Every pixel recording luminosity only allows a LOT of detail.
This is an old water tower nearby, followed by a 200% crop from it that reveals bolts and the turnbuckles for tightening the support cables. If you just can't quantify the value of a new monochrome camera, and yeah even the least expensive is over $2K, it might be worth investing in an old circ-2013 Pentax K-3 for a couple of hundred dollars and debayering it. That could come in under $1000 total for a dedicated monochrome camera that delivers great images.
Just a thought.
This is an old water tower nearby, followed by a 200% crop from it that reveals bolts and the turnbuckles for tightening the support cables. If you just can't quantify the value of a new monochrome camera, and yeah even the least expensive is over $2K, it might be worth investing in an old circ-2013 Pentax K-3 for a couple of hundred dollars and debayering it. That could come in under $1000 total for a dedicated monochrome camera that delivers great images.
Just a thought.
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Gatorguy
Member
Three lens samples from three different lenses:
Zeiss Distagon ZK T* 28mm f2
Isco ULTRA EF 90mm F/2.4
Voigtlander Apo Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL
Without looking at EXIF data, which image was taken by which lens? All shot wide-open, noting that the ISCO has no aperture ring. It's always wide open.
I changed positions just a bit so as not to be too obvious.
Zeiss Distagon ZK T* 28mm f2
Isco ULTRA EF 90mm F/2.4
Voigtlander Apo Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL
Without looking at EXIF data, which image was taken by which lens? All shot wide-open, noting that the ISCO has no aperture ring. It's always wide open.
I changed positions just a bit so as not to be too obvious.