David_Manning
Well-known
Selling two other bodies and buying an M10-P (that's the plan, anyway). Spent a lot of time reading reviews.
Everyone satisfied with theirs?
Everyone satisfied with theirs?
If you are buying new, why not wait until the M11? If you are buying used, then... of course it is nice.
mnutzer
no title
After about ten years of photography with an M8.2, I upgraded to an M10-P and have never looked back.
But see if the improvements to the M10-R get even closer to your photographic inclinations.
But see if the improvements to the M10-R get even closer to your photographic inclinations.
boojum
Mentor
What's wrong with the camera you have now?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
It's odd to me that two posts didn't say anything about whether the M10-P was satisfactory or not, but seemed to urge you to reconsider buying one. I don't know for sure whether either of the previous two responders have ever even touched an M10-P based upon what they wrote.
I do not own an M10 model Leica. I owned and used the M9, M-P 240, and M-D 262 cameras extensively, am currently using a CL body, and I've considered an M10 model on and off for some time. For a bit, I thought I'd buy an M10 Monochrom and then an M10-D, but I bought my Hasselblad 907x/CFVII 50c instead which halted further high-end camera purchases for a while (and still). That said, based on my handling and shooting some test exposures with the M10 to compare with my previous digital M cameras' output, I'd say that from an imaging quality perspective they're "much of the same" excellent quality. The M10 series body is slightly thinner than my previous digital M bodies and feels a little more akin to my M4-2 in the hand: this seems very important to some folks, but isn't that big a deal to me perhaps because I have largish hands and usually fit a half case to my M4-2 in order to make the body a little thicker and more comfortable to grip. The changes in control ergonomics on the M10 (meaning location of the ISO control and menu structure) are an "eh? whatever" thing to me as well ... I get used to whatever the camera offers and switch around between five differently organized digital cameras with no problems... where again this is a big deal to some users. The several folks I know who have been using various models of the M10 for some time now all seem quite satisfied with their cameras and I certainly cannot fault any of the imaging qualities of the photos they've presented made with those cameras.
On the basis of the above, I'd say that if you want an M10—regardless of what you like or dislike about your current/prior digital M cameras—you should be satisfied and happy with an M10-P.
And to follow up on my own interest ... I'm generally quite satisfied using the CL at present. The APS-C format has some advantages for what I do with it and 24 Mpixel and at my usual ISO 3200 high sensitivity self-imposed limit, the dynamic range and imaging quality it offers is excellent. I use M and R system lenses on it exclusively, don't own any TL or SL series lenses. There are times, however, when the EVF is difficult to see (mostly situations with bright sun and lots of specular highlights) and the rangefinder-coupled optical rangefinder of the M would be more to my liking. So I continue to keep on eye on the M10, and now as well am thinking about the Pixii. But I'm in no hurry to buy as I have plenty of camera equipment to use that I'm happy with. Perhaps this coming year I'll buy one or the other, I'm not sure yet. The Pixii is appealing because it's the same price, form factor, and format as the CL; the M10 is nice because of its larger sensor and close-to-traditional control ergonomics. Still a toss-up to me...
G
I do not own an M10 model Leica. I owned and used the M9, M-P 240, and M-D 262 cameras extensively, am currently using a CL body, and I've considered an M10 model on and off for some time. For a bit, I thought I'd buy an M10 Monochrom and then an M10-D, but I bought my Hasselblad 907x/CFVII 50c instead which halted further high-end camera purchases for a while (and still). That said, based on my handling and shooting some test exposures with the M10 to compare with my previous digital M cameras' output, I'd say that from an imaging quality perspective they're "much of the same" excellent quality. The M10 series body is slightly thinner than my previous digital M bodies and feels a little more akin to my M4-2 in the hand: this seems very important to some folks, but isn't that big a deal to me perhaps because I have largish hands and usually fit a half case to my M4-2 in order to make the body a little thicker and more comfortable to grip. The changes in control ergonomics on the M10 (meaning location of the ISO control and menu structure) are an "eh? whatever" thing to me as well ... I get used to whatever the camera offers and switch around between five differently organized digital cameras with no problems... where again this is a big deal to some users. The several folks I know who have been using various models of the M10 for some time now all seem quite satisfied with their cameras and I certainly cannot fault any of the imaging qualities of the photos they've presented made with those cameras.
On the basis of the above, I'd say that if you want an M10—regardless of what you like or dislike about your current/prior digital M cameras—you should be satisfied and happy with an M10-P.
And to follow up on my own interest ... I'm generally quite satisfied using the CL at present. The APS-C format has some advantages for what I do with it and 24 Mpixel and at my usual ISO 3200 high sensitivity self-imposed limit, the dynamic range and imaging quality it offers is excellent. I use M and R system lenses on it exclusively, don't own any TL or SL series lenses. There are times, however, when the EVF is difficult to see (mostly situations with bright sun and lots of specular highlights) and the rangefinder-coupled optical rangefinder of the M would be more to my liking. So I continue to keep on eye on the M10, and now as well am thinking about the Pixii. But I'm in no hurry to buy as I have plenty of camera equipment to use that I'm happy with. Perhaps this coming year I'll buy one or the other, I'm not sure yet. The Pixii is appealing because it's the same price, form factor, and format as the CL; the M10 is nice because of its larger sensor and close-to-traditional control ergonomics. Still a toss-up to me...
G
I said nothing of the sort, but more of a reminder in case he had not realized the M11 is rumored for Jan 13th. It is not fun to spend your $ on the previous model at full price 2 weeks before a new model. It was a kind reminder, but in your typical fashion you decided to not be kind. I have touched the M10.
David_Manning
Well-known
I appreciate those who took time to reply.
As John--jsrockit--knows, I have used a wide variety of cameras. None is perfect. However, I keep coming back to my M7...but I'm mostly disappointed once I'm faced with scanning and editing. The M10 seems like the right M7 replacement. The -P model is attractive to me for it's subtle looks and touchscreen. I enjoy that screen on my Canon R5, but really prefer M-style manual focus and casual shooting.
Just wanted to make sure there weren't any "quiet shutter" issues, since the shutter is different from other M10s. As far as an M11...I think the M10 does everything I need a digital M body to do...I'm not interested in more features. Again, I have an R5 that has lots of modern features, and Canon executes this very well.
As John--jsrockit--knows, I have used a wide variety of cameras. None is perfect. However, I keep coming back to my M7...but I'm mostly disappointed once I'm faced with scanning and editing. The M10 seems like the right M7 replacement. The -P model is attractive to me for it's subtle looks and touchscreen. I enjoy that screen on my Canon R5, but really prefer M-style manual focus and casual shooting.
Just wanted to make sure there weren't any "quiet shutter" issues, since the shutter is different from other M10s. As far as an M11...I think the M10 does everything I need a digital M body to do...I'm not interested in more features. Again, I have an R5 that has lots of modern features, and Canon executes this very well.
David_Manning
Well-known
To add more clarity, my M9 was a great way to shoot digital with an M body, but its drawbacks have become tiresome...narrow dynamic range, slow operation, annoyingly loud shutter, poor rear screen.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have the standard M10 and not the M10-P or M10-R. I like it very much for everyday shooting. It has been reliable and the battery use is OK overall. I have a back-up battery always charged and in the camera bag. I can shoot back to back images of (say) a Pelican in flight, without having the camera buffer fill up quickly, as in the M9. I kept my M9. It is my favorite for color images when there is no need to rush things. It is always with me as a back-up camera for my M10.
willie_901
Mentor
For what it's worth, the M10 has the best technical image quality (analog dynamic range and signal-to noise ratio) of any Leica color camera with a 24 x 36mm sensor. The M10 is also tops almost all other color digital cameras with the same sensor area. Only one or two Nikon DSLR bodies are better (and not by enough to matter). Several other SONY and Nikon bodies have similar performance.
Anyone who wants to own a Leica digital camera will not regret buying a M10.
There are many rumors about the M11. Most predict significant differences from the M8, 9 and 240 bodies that don't affect on technical image quality . The M11 sensor pixel density will certainly be higher - maybe by a factor of 2. So, if 24 MP (5952 x 3992 pixels) is not enough, the M11 may be of interest.
Anyone who wants to own a Leica digital camera will not regret buying a M10.
There are many rumors about the M11. Most predict significant differences from the M8, 9 and 240 bodies that don't affect on technical image quality . The M11 sensor pixel density will certainly be higher - maybe by a factor of 2. So, if 24 MP (5952 x 3992 pixels) is not enough, the M11 may be of interest.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have kept my M9 for its color performance, and I kept the M8 ftoo for no real reason other than I like using this camera too. Using a 50mm lens with the M8 gives me a short tele view. With the Hologon 16/8 I get a 21mm view without the purple smearing in the edges.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Ah, a little bit of a personal attack for the holidays. Nothing unusual, doesn't bother me.
You might have actually said what you just said rather than intimated that he just wait for the M11 with no notion of when/how soon it might be available. I had no idea it was rumored to be announced in three weeks ... Not everyone is watching all the rumor posts; I certainly don't. Never mind that my comment was hardly unkind, just bemused that the two replies in the thread mentioned nothing about the M10 that the OP asked about.
And, btw, the M10 is now a known quantity where the rumored M11 is a new camera with no one knows what sorts of issues a new model might bring. I have myself have often purchased the last well-proven model in preference to a brand new model on the cusp of its release because I have some information as to whether the proven model will do what I need and not have issues. Knowing that the rumored M11 release is near at hand, I might wait to see whether it actually materializes, and what happens to the M10 prices, but if I'd already made my mind up about the M10 I just might say to heck with that if I have a particular goal in mind already.
Happy holidays!
G
David_Manning
Well-known
As I continue down the rabbit hole with reviews, I see that the M10-R has the same screen and quiet shutter at 40MP...and the sensor is newer technology than the base M10 sensor. So that seems to appeal to me...but then I choke on the purchase price, as usual. And then I compare all of them to my Canon EOS R5, and it seems to do a better job at most tangible, measurable things (and I'm ABSOLUTELY aware of the apple-to-orange differences between the two types of mirrorless cameras).
M10-R seems really like the camera to get right now for M, of course not knowing what the M11 will offer. But *yikes* I still choke on that price. One trip while hiking, and I've totaled a motorcycle.
M10-R seems really like the camera to get right now for M, of course not knowing what the M11 will offer. But *yikes* I still choke on that price. One trip while hiking, and I've totaled a motorcycle.
35photo
Well-known
I got a used M10-P in Sept this year....Coming from an M9 which as everyone knows its all its short comings by now... I still have it its beat the shit out of wasn't worth selling at all... I decided to keep it as a back up... Now the P is a smooth machine! I've had zero issues with it... Its taken sometime to figure out how I like to process its files.... Figuring out what the files need... Contrast is one thing compared to the M9... it needed more.... I at first bumped up the slider.... which was better... then started using the tone curve much better! So I look the contrast slider out of the flow and started using the tone curve and simple S curve with a slight mid bump to taste... The images now have the snap I was used to with the M9.... So its an adjustment! Impressed with the Hi ISO... still getting a hang of using AUTO ISO which I usually set once the lighting levels get low....Have used the extreme 40,000 iso grainy yeah some banding so I have to watch it.... but depending on the situation I want to capture the image no matter what... I'll take all of the noise, I can work around it... doesn't bother me... Great camera! Glad I finally got it... Will be using it for many years to come.
Ah, a little bit of a personal attack for the holidays. Nothing unusual, doesn't bother me.
Happy holidays!
G
Godfrey, I did nothing wrong except for say the M11 is rumored to be coming. I am not sure why that is not relevant here. I guess I could have said the rumored date. However, it could be what he is looking for and it could certainly lower other M prices after it is announced.
As far as an attack, you chose to comment on my post basically saying it added nothing relevant. I truly was trying to help. Anyway, happy holidays. I concede.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
I traded up to the M10-P from the M-P 240 more than 2-years ago with no regrets whatsoever. It has been my favorite digital M to date; the M10-R (having no IBIS) has had no appeal to me whatsoever. 24MP (about maximum for un-fettered handheld shooting) is plenty for my purposes!
The M11 will apparently have more megapixels and still no IBIS (and $$$). No thanks!
I say go for the M10-P and don't look back!
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Heh. Seems to me you're making a rather big fuss out of a very simple statement:
That statement says and implies nothing about you, personally, either positive or negative. It doesn't even say that you "did something wrong." It just states what I perceived (or didn't, as it were) in your and Boojum's responses, that is, that neither you nor Boojum even mentioned the M10 in your responses. It's pretty literal and certainly wasn't meant to offend anyone.
If you want to interpret the statement as an affront, well, there's nothing I can do about that.
Now that you've actually explained what you meant, I understand your comment better—but it would have been far better and more useful informationally, both to the original poster and to me, if you articulated that in your original response.
G
boojum
Mentor
My response was that
1) what was wrong with the currently-owned camera? and
2) There are few of us who can say their camera is holding them back from better photos.
Will everybody who has missed a Pulitzer or NatGeo because their Leica was not current enough please hold up their hands.
1) what was wrong with the currently-owned camera? and
2) There are few of us who can say their camera is holding them back from better photos.
Will everybody who has missed a Pulitzer or NatGeo because their Leica was not current enough please hold up their hands.
Ok, let us move on. I get it. Sometimes forums just work that way, that we go a little off topic. I may have assumed that everyone knew about the M11 rumor. However, everyone here is just trying to help in their own way. Some of us start by asking a small question or making a small statement, and then follow up, while some of us write dissertations.
Yokosuka_Mike
Abstract Clarity
Buy the M10-P, or wait for the M11? Buy the M10-P because that's the one for me and I just need a little group think to help push myself over the edge?
This thread reminded me of something I wrote last month about the rumored M11.
"Eleven, think about it, it’s an odd number. Not a good marketing strategy. They’ll probably produce it in limited numbers, quickly introduce the 11P, or R, or PR, or perhaps the 11pm… and a few months after that get Lenny Kravitz to scuff a few up, slap on a snake skin strap and sell them as “limited - limited” editions. So far so good, but then… a few months later (maybe a year) unveil the M12. The M12 will be the Leica that we’ve all really (I mean really) been waiting for."
Of course, what I wrote and what I think means nothing because David wants to know if people with an M10-P are satisfied with it. That leaves me out but it is fun to participate in this interesting thread.
Good luck, David, I hope it all works out for you.
All the best,
Mike
This thread reminded me of something I wrote last month about the rumored M11.
"Eleven, think about it, it’s an odd number. Not a good marketing strategy. They’ll probably produce it in limited numbers, quickly introduce the 11P, or R, or PR, or perhaps the 11pm… and a few months after that get Lenny Kravitz to scuff a few up, slap on a snake skin strap and sell them as “limited - limited” editions. So far so good, but then… a few months later (maybe a year) unveil the M12. The M12 will be the Leica that we’ve all really (I mean really) been waiting for."
Of course, what I wrote and what I think means nothing because David wants to know if people with an M10-P are satisfied with it. That leaves me out but it is fun to participate in this interesting thread.
Good luck, David, I hope it all works out for you.
All the best,
Mike