Leica has made me a criminal! Help!

rfaspen

rfaspen

[insert pithy phrase here]
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No joke. My enjoyment of Leica cameras and lenses has made me a criminal -- and I had no idea!

How did I find out?

For starters. My wife and I have a policy that we each attempt to fund our own hobbies. She is a photographer and sells prints for her "fun money". I do woodworking commissions and buy/sell photo equipment to get fun money for my hobbies.

Summer of last year, I decided I really want a Leica M10, M10-R, or even an M11. My dream is a Leica M10-R. About the same time, I decided it was time to finally liquidate my camera collection (I did save favorites and sentimental items). So I began posting a little more than 500 cameras and lenses on craigslist to sell and make money for a Leica M10,M10-R,M11.

I wasn't prepared for what happened next. So many young enthusiastic people (I call them kids at my age) clamouring to come over and purchase my stuff. It was mostly common film cameras/lenses, but some high-end stuff too (Leica). I sold all my Argi C-3, Brownie Hawkeyes, Hi-Matics, and similar. And also sold Nikon kits F2, F3, D700, FE, FE2, FM, and more), Olympus OM, various M42, Rolleiflexes of all kinds, you get the idea. Also some Leica copies and a few Leica lenses.

After the hoards of kids came by my house and left with their very own box of cameras, I was left with empty space in my various closets, bookshelves, garage. Kind of a good feeling to know that all those young super-excited kids will actually use my cameras. I simply could not use them. They just sat and got sluggish -- very sad.

Also, after the hoards of kids, I found myself with a substantial stack of cash! You see....each one of those kids (some were older) gave me cash for their goodies and before long I had quite a stack. Let's say, I definitely have enough to buy that M10,M10-R or M11 at used prices. At new prices, maybe not the M11.

So, how did I become a criminal? It became clear I am a criminal when I went down to my bank (of 30+ years) to deposit my cash. I figured I would deposit my money, then I would then hop online and find myself my dream Leica (M10-R) and order it. But no!

I walked into the bank and told the teller I would like to make a cash deposit. She said, "OK. How much do you want to deposit, and which account?" I said, "I want to deposit [large amount] to my checking account". That's when she started acting strange. She proceeded to hem and haw, typed a lot on her computer, and then started asking a lot of very probing questions. Very probing, and very strange. I stopped her and asked what the heck is going on.

She informed me that she has to submit an SAR. An SAR is a Suspicious Activities Report. They are required to submit an SAR for any *cash* deposit greater than $600. I asked her just what this SAR will do. Well, apparently it goes to corporate headquarters and they make a decision whether to close your account. With the amount of cash I was intending to deposit, she said they would likely close my account. They would also freeze the cash deposit and make it unavailable until they finish "an investigation". This would apparently involve DEA, ATF, and IRS. And regardless, I would receive a form in the mail from the IRS to fill out and pay taxes on the cash deposit.

So it seems I have suddenly joined company with drug dealers, gun runners, and money launderers! It feels rather unexciting to become a criminal. I always thought it would be more like Thelma and Louise.

I told her to cancel my deposit (hopefully she didn't submit anything anyway) and I left with my stack of cash thinking I could still get my dream camera. I would just have to buy one the same way all those kids came to buy my cameras and lenses.

That was June 2023.

Since then, I have been searching for an M10, M10-R, or M11 offered for sale anywhere within driving distance of my home. Every day, I check. Every single day. I have not yet been able to find a camera for sale within driving distance. I live in western Oregon. Portland OR is 80 miles away, and about the limit I consider practical to go buy a camera. One M10 came up early in my search, in Portland. I didn't pursue it because it was chrome, and I wanted a black one. I figured I could pass and plenty of other cameras will come up before long. Well, now it looks like that was my only chance regardless of finish.

I'm so frustrated because I could order my dream camera from Roberts, Tamarkin, or so many private offerings on Fred Miranda and elsewhere, but I am unable to do so because I'm stuck with a giant stack of cash that doesn't fit through the electronic copper cables and those cameras are located far away from me.

So. Are there any other criminals out there?

I took a complete bath on most of the gear I sold. Only a couple Leica items sold for more than I paid for them. I'm clearly not a money lauderer, and obviously not a gun runner or drug dealer. But, here I am unable to buy a stupid camera because of banking laws and our society's move toward an completely electronic commercial space (apparently easier to track everyone?). Cash is not as nice as it used to be.

What do you guys do? What would you do? It's been several months and I'm beginning to think there will never be a Leica M10-R offered anywhere in Oregon again.
 
Next time try Texas and skip Oregon.

You could probably make an account with some large financial institutions that would probably take your money. they may still send a notice to the IRS if over 10K but they wouldn't just open a SAR.
 
Welcome to the new USA, where freedom is now but a mirage. :(

I put up an item for sale yesterday and had someone approach with an offer of a trade for an M10-R, maybe I could assist in some way? Message me if you want to discuss, or even if you just want to vent!
 
WTF happened to America???

rfaspen said:
No joke. My enjoyment of Leica cameras and lenses has made me a criminal -- and I had no idea!

How did I find out?

For starters. My wife and I have a policy that we each attempt to fund our own hobbies. She is a photographer and sells prints for her "fun money". I do woodworking commissions and buy/sell photo equipment to get fun money for my hobbies.

Summer of last year, I decided I really want a Leica M10, M10-R, or even an M11. My dream is a Leica M10-R. About the same time, I decided it was time to finally liquidate my camera collection (I did save favorites and sentimental items). So I began posting a little more than 500 cameras and lenses on craigslist to sell and make money for a Leica M10,M10-R,M11.

I wasn't prepared for what happened next. So many young enthusiastic people (I call them kids at my age) clamouring to come over and purchase my stuff. It was mostly common film cameras/lenses, but some high-end stuff too (Leica). I sold all my Argi C-3, Brownie Hawkeyes, Hi-Matics, and similar. And also sold Nikon kits F2, F3, D700, FE, FE2, FM, and more), Olympus OM, various M42, Rolleiflexes of all kinds, you get the idea. Also some Leica copies and a few Leica lenses.

After the hoards of kids came by my house and left with their very own box of cameras, I was left with empty space in my various closets, bookshelves, garage. Kind of a good feeling to know that all those young super-excited kids will actually use my cameras. I simply could not use them. They just sat and got sluggish -- very sad.

Also, after the hoards of kids, I found myself with a substantial stack of cash! You see....each one of those kids (some were older) gave me cash for their goodies and before long I had quite a stack. Let's say, I definitely have enough to buy that M10,M10-R or M11 at used prices. At new prices, maybe not the M11.

So, how did I become a criminal? It became clear I am a criminal when I went down to my bank (of 30+ years) to deposit my cash. I figured I would deposit my money, then I would then hop online and find myself my dream Leica (M10-R) and order it. But no!

I walked into the bank and told the teller I would like to make a cash deposit. She said, "OK. How much do you want to deposit, and which account?" I said, "I want to deposit [large amount] to my checking account". That's when she started acting strange. She proceeded to hem and haw, typed a lot on her computer, and then started asking a lot of very probing questions. Very probing, and very strange. I stopped her and asked what the heck is going on.

She informed me that she has to submit an SAR. An SAR is a Suspicious Activities Report. They are required to submit an SAR for any *cash* deposit greater than $600. I asked her just what this SAR will do. Well, apparently it goes to corporate headquarters and they make a decision whether to close your account. With the amount of cash I was intending to deposit, she said they would likely close my account. They would also freeze the cash deposit and make it unavailable until they finish "an investigation". This would apparently involve DEA, ATF, and IRS. And regardless, I would receive a form in the mail from the IRS to fill out and pay taxes on the cash deposit.

So it seems I have suddenly joined company with drug dealers, gun runners, and money launderers! It feels rather unexciting to become a criminal. I always thought it would be more like Thelma and Louise.

I told her to cancel my deposit (hopefully she didn't submit anything anyway) and I left with my stack of cash thinking I could still get my dream camera. I would just have to buy one the same way all those kids came to buy my cameras and lenses.

That was June 2023.

Since then, I have been searching for an M10, M10-R, or M11 offered for sale anywhere within driving distance of my home. Every day, I check. Every single day. I have not yet been able to find a camera for sale within driving distance. I live in western Oregon. Portland OR is 80 miles away, and about the limit I consider practical to go buy a camera. One M10 came up early in my search, in Portland. I didn't pursue it because it was chrome, and I wanted a black one. I figured I could pass and plenty of other cameras will come up before long. Well, now it looks like that was my only chance regardless of finish.

I'm so frustrated because I could order my dream camera from Roberts, Tamarkin, or so many private offerings on Fred Miranda and elsewhere, but I am unable to do so because I'm stuck with a giant stack of cash that doesn't fit through the electronic copper cables and those cameras are located far away from me.

So. Are there any other criminals out there?

I took a complete bath on most of the gear I sold. Only a couple Leica items sold for more than I paid for them. I'm clearly not a money lauderer, and obviously not a gun runner or drug dealer. But, here I am unable to buy a stupid camera because of banking laws and our society's move toward an completely electronic commercial space (apparently easier to track everyone?). Cash is not as nice as it used to be.

What do you guys do? What would you do? It's been several months and I'm beginning to think there will never be a Leica M10-R offered anywhere in Oregon again.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, go to a new bank, open an account at a different (locally owned, is there such a thing anymore? or a credit union perhaps) make small deposits.
 
I can understand the bank/government wanting to check against crime etc. and be safe, that however at the end of that process they can't guarantee that your money and your account, will be still yours, is insane.
 
It may be just that bank's policy, try other institutions. I'd go the Credit Union route, they are usually easier to deal with.
 
$600 limit is ridiculous. As others suggested, try another bank.

www.usps.com

Money Orders | USPS

You can buy money orders at any Post Office to send anywhere. You can cash money orders at the Post Office. USPS replaces lost, stolen, and damaged money orders. Find out how much a money order costs or if your money order is real and whether it has been cashed on USPS.com.
www.usps.com

You can purchase a postal money order up to $1000 using cash. Ask your wife to get them made out to you.
 
Do not go back to that branch, make deposits into an ATM at a different branch close to your houser each day until it´s all in the account. After about 3 weeks, you'll be done. Buy your camera wherever you can after that. I thought deposits under $10000 were ok still, but maybe that's changed.
 
$600?? That's unbelievable. In Australia, they have flagged cash transactions of over $10,000, which has no doubt enraged people in the (legitmate) building industry.

One time, I had to make a cash withdrawal of $5000 for a new hot water service, as the plumbers would give me a better price for cash. When I made the withdrawal at the teller, she asked me what it was for - I explained the hot water service, and she said that's okay, they have to ask this question whenever someone makes a large (!) withdrawal to help people not be scammed. I said well, you could call the hot water service installation a scam, but hey, that's neither here nor there. 👋

As for your problem, I would sit on the cash until a M10-R becomes available within a good distance. You might be waiting for a while, but the right thing will appear. If you save some more, you can make an interstate trip to find your M10-R. There is a dealer in Sydney who has an excellent swag of gear, but he only deals in person, and won't send anything interstate. I've made the decision that if I buy something from him, I will make the trip from Melbourne to Sydney. It's a two hour flight or ten hour drive. It would be a fun trip, and make the purchase even more memorable and special.
 
Archiver said:
$600?? That's unbelievable. In Australia, they have flagged cash transactions of over $10,000, which has no doubt enraged people in the (legitmate) building industry.
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I was told that up until about last year, the threshold was something like $12,000 or even $20,000. It dropped to $600 just recently. The teller told me that most banks have this policy and similar thresholds. If you have deposited a large amount of cash in a US bank recently, they may have sent up an SAR without you knowing. I don't think this was specific to me in any way.

The suggestion to make multiple smaller deposits over time -- the teller was sure to tell me that they look for that too. They have some kind of specific jargon term for that, I just don't remember what it was. Perhaps she said "stacking"? Regardless, they know that trick.

This only pertains to cash. If I wanted to deposit check(s) for that large amount -- no problem. And of course, any electronic form of deposit -- no problem. Only cash. Funny because about 5 years ago I had a yard sale and ended up with more than $600 at the end of the day. Deposited that without any problems (that I know of). But, that was 5 years ago before the lower threshold. Today, I can't even have a successful yard sale.

I'm beyond frustrated.
 
splitimageview said:
Welcome to the new USA, where freedom is now but a mirage. :(

I put up an item for sale yesterday and had someone approach with an offer of a trade for an M10-R, maybe I could assist in some way? Message me if you want to discuss, or even if you just want to vent!
Click to expand...
M10-R -- If there is a way to make this deal with cash, I'm all ears. I have a stack of bills in the other room and it just feels odd I can't secure it any better than "the mattress". Needless to say, I'm not excited to share my home address publicly.

splitimage, are you in Oregon by any chance?
 
As a retail banker, I can say with confidence that $600 is not any threshold at all for reporting to anyone, or any sort of suspicious activity whatsoever. Also, a bank teller should never tell you if they feel the need to submit a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) regarding the transaction. That's terrible business.

Now if your cash deposit were just shy of the federal reporting threshold of >$10,000, that could possibly be considered suspicious, in that the teller should ask the source of the cash and you should answer honestly. Because money launderers do abound and they do behave in a certain way. But this sounds like nonsense. A very poorly trained teller who made several really serious mistakes.

Incidentally, federal reporting for cash over $10,000 doesn't go anywhere, doesn't go to the IRS, and hmis simply kept on file in the event that sometime down the road, you come under investigation by the feds. Then, the bank has to hand that over if it's subpoenaed. SARs are reviewed by the bank's security and compliance people. Sadly, the act of you taking your cash and canceling the deposit is enough to justify a SAR, so that almost certainly got submitted. Of course, in this case it was a bungled interaction by a clueless teller, but that's poor management for you.
 
rfaspen said:
The suggestion to make multiple smaller deposits over time -- the teller was sure to tell me that they look for that too. They have some kind of specific jargon term for that, I just don't remember what it was. Perhaps she said "stacking"? Regardless, they know that trick.
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They might know it, but you are doing nothing wrong... at all. I deposited $5,000 into my bank account and they didn't ask anything. They might have flagged it, but it didn't affect my account ever. I mean, you can say you sold a Leica M11 and that's how you got the cash. I think a lot of the time, people sell cars and they are taxable.
 
I have a feeling you're not giving us the whole story. There are several things in your story that frankly don't make much sense. Unless perhaps you were coming to bank and making multiple $600 deposits in a day. People deposit thousands of dollars in cash at banks all the time (car payment, rent, construction, etc.) and this would not surprise any teller in the least. Unless the same person came back and did it again and again, or just "coincidentally" deposited or withdrew an amount that just happened to be under their limit for reporting or record keeping (and it's going to be a lot more than just $600!). Also anybody submitting such a report wouldn't (shouldn't) tell the person they're reporting.

As for skipping Oregon and coming to Texas - that won't change a thing! Not only will you deal with the exact same procedures, you might even have it worse in Texas. I once exhibited at an event in Dallas that required me to sign up for a sales tax license. After the event I mailed the state their share, and then tried to cancel the license with the state. They were very reluctant even though I'm not a dealer, or a shop owner, "don't you sell anything? Garage sales? Ebay? You need to report all of it!". They wanted me to report to them monthly!
 
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rfaspen said:
M10-R -- If there is a way to make this deal with cash, I'm all ears. I have a stack of bills in the other room and it just feels odd I can't secure it any better than "the mattress". Needless to say, I'm not excited to share my home address publicly.

splitimage, are you in Oregon by any chance?
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Unfortunately I checked with him and the M10-R is already sold...
 
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