ianwilliams
Newbie
OK, Here goes. This is not a debate as to which medium is best. It is simply a thread to establish where the future of film photography lies. I am a mature student at NESCOT, near Epsom in Surrey, coming to the end of a foundation degree in photography and for my extended study essay, I have decided to investigate what the future of film photography holds in the 21st century digital age, so any thoughts and opinions will be very gratefully received.
For your information, I very much prefer film photography and shoot with a Mamiya 7 and Hasselblad XPan, as well as a Shen Hao 54 camera. Although it was digital that re-ignited my passion in photography it is film that really inspires me, so much so that I have sold pretty much all of my digital gear except my Panasonic GF-1. I also work for a Canon Pro dealer and Phase One retailer, and even being surrounded by this technology I really feel most comfortable with a film camera as my companion!
Please let me know your thoughts on the destiny of film photography. For example, is it worth the investment of perhaps several hundreds, even thousands, of pounds in film equipment? Are there future advances to be made in film emulsions and papers? Is film photography still a viable proposition in the commercial arena? Which medium do you prefer (film or digital, and why?)? Are there more advances to be made in scanning and/or printing?
I look forward to your replies.
Regards
Ian
For your information, I very much prefer film photography and shoot with a Mamiya 7 and Hasselblad XPan, as well as a Shen Hao 54 camera. Although it was digital that re-ignited my passion in photography it is film that really inspires me, so much so that I have sold pretty much all of my digital gear except my Panasonic GF-1. I also work for a Canon Pro dealer and Phase One retailer, and even being surrounded by this technology I really feel most comfortable with a film camera as my companion!
Please let me know your thoughts on the destiny of film photography. For example, is it worth the investment of perhaps several hundreds, even thousands, of pounds in film equipment? Are there future advances to be made in film emulsions and papers? Is film photography still a viable proposition in the commercial arena? Which medium do you prefer (film or digital, and why?)? Are there more advances to be made in scanning and/or printing?
I look forward to your replies.
Regards
Ian
Pickett Wilson
Mentor
I refuse to answer on the grounds that it would tend to...start a war.
Just go ahead and delete the thread before a Mod has to do so.
Just go ahead and delete the thread before a Mod has to do so.
peterm1
Mentor
My guess is that film use will continue (for some time at least) in some niche applications but do not ask me which ones - apart from perhaps some specialized artistic ones where people like yourself make that choice.
The rate of development in digital is now so great that its hard to see film being competitive for 99% or more of applications. We can now get cameras with 20-30 megapixel sensors and the same physical size as a 35mm negative. This puts them i the same imaging resolution ball park. Of course comparably larger and higher res sensors are also available for MF digital cameras too. And who would have though it possible to get sensitivity of 6400 ISO with film and get good results? Latest DSLRs can.
And so forth.....The pace of change is quite astounding and I can only guess where digital will be in a few years. Its hard to imagine any company investing in new film technology advances that would even go close to matching. Its much more likely that sensor advances will make film even less competitive in a technology (and economical) sense. After all the market is just not there except perhaps for a few specialized applications in art, science and maybe the military.
My advice is that if you like film and want to shoot it, then go for it. Accept that its ultimately a higher cost medium and suck it up!.......... I like shooting with a 1936 Leica 111a camera (and not just because its a film camera) , I know its quirky and antiquated but its fun and challenging.
I suspect that this is where film usage is heading generally.
The rate of development in digital is now so great that its hard to see film being competitive for 99% or more of applications. We can now get cameras with 20-30 megapixel sensors and the same physical size as a 35mm negative. This puts them i the same imaging resolution ball park. Of course comparably larger and higher res sensors are also available for MF digital cameras too. And who would have though it possible to get sensitivity of 6400 ISO with film and get good results? Latest DSLRs can.
And so forth.....The pace of change is quite astounding and I can only guess where digital will be in a few years. Its hard to imagine any company investing in new film technology advances that would even go close to matching. Its much more likely that sensor advances will make film even less competitive in a technology (and economical) sense. After all the market is just not there except perhaps for a few specialized applications in art, science and maybe the military.
My advice is that if you like film and want to shoot it, then go for it. Accept that its ultimately a higher cost medium and suck it up!.......... I like shooting with a 1936 Leica 111a camera (and not just because its a film camera) , I know its quirky and antiquated but its fun and challenging.
I suspect that this is where film usage is heading generally.
Last edited:
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Film photography will exist beyond our lifetime, and it will become a bit more expensive and exclusive, as it has been happening for the last years.
Cheers,
Juan
Cheers,
Juan
ianwilliams
Newbie
The future of photography
The future of photography
This thread is not designed to start a war. There are many benefits to digital, and there are many benefits to film, and personally I prefer the latter. I am simply trying to establish what the future of film beholds, if there is a future at all. I truly hope there is as this is the basis of my photography, or do I/we have to accept the future of image making lies with digital. Note, this is not a discussion on which medium is best, as there is no simple answer to that question, but rather whether the film medium will continue to diminish and eventually disappear, or whether we will still be able to enjoy film photography in 10, 20, 30 years.
Ian
The future of photography
This thread is not designed to start a war. There are many benefits to digital, and there are many benefits to film, and personally I prefer the latter. I am simply trying to establish what the future of film beholds, if there is a future at all. I truly hope there is as this is the basis of my photography, or do I/we have to accept the future of image making lies with digital. Note, this is not a discussion on which medium is best, as there is no simple answer to that question, but rather whether the film medium will continue to diminish and eventually disappear, or whether we will still be able to enjoy film photography in 10, 20, 30 years.
Ian
JimOfOakCreek
Jazz Wine Photgraphy
Film will forever remain a niche used by collectors/hobbiests, artists and eccentrics.That niche will be permanent and may even grow a tiny bit. Film and processing will become more expensive. Leica, Zeiss and other high quality film gear will increase in value. Shooting with film will be very similar to gun enthusiasts shooting with a black powder rifle.
Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
"Digital Film" (thin WIFI high-res sensors that you can stick onto your film camera's base plate and easily clean) will come along eventually. It might take several years or perhaps a decade but the technology will be developed for other market applications.
This means you will still be able to use your film cameras even though film might become too costly, impractical or scarce.
This means you will still be able to use your film cameras even though film might become too costly, impractical or scarce.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
Predictions:
1. Film will continue to be produced (probably for quite some time). Especially black and white film. Fuji is currently revamping its product line, so I am not going to comment on them, but Kodak just came out with a new film in large format. Production will continue for some time, but may get very expensive. I expect the larger companies to pull out completely, but smaller ones to pick up where they left off. (this does not bode well for color film).
2. Another future of film is large format. With a wet plate holder, a photographer is independent of film producers (chemicals and glass will continue to be in production). Technically, this can be done forever. You can even make your own glass/metal sheet.
3. Paper: here is the kicker. Making enlarger paper is not trivial. There are only a couple of manufacturers. As each stops production, the chances that the remainders will continue increases. Handcoated papers are certainly manageable, but are usually made for contact printing (see: large format, above). I am sure it is technically possible to make enlarger paper yourself, but it is certainly not the same as Ilford MG IV. I doubt that paper production will stop in the next 20 years, so I am not worried about this.
4. Processing: large markets (especially large art markets) may continue to have processing for E-6 and B&W for a while. C-41 is still easy to track down locally. The next ten years will show a dramatic contraction in film processing, as noritsu machines around the world fall apart. Medium and large format are still serviced by pro-labs that use dip and dunk, so the cost may increase but should continue for a while.
On that note: in my area, B&W is being serviced by a single person hand processing film for $80 a roll with proofs. The fact that someone is willing to pay this is astounding. You can probably get a 35mm enlarger for that prices. The future of B&W processing is what it has always been: do it yourself.
5. Instant film. Wow. they are making more now than last year. Art market, of course, but who knew people would miss polaroids. (except the lamented type 55, which is still not in production).
Comment:
this is not meant to be inflammatory. In fact, I don't know why I am writing it. Digital is here. It makes consumer film obsolete (except those disposable cameras that you can still buy in the drugstore).
Commercial photography is now almost completely digital.
Art photography / amateur enthusiasts are the last bastions of film consumption. This is where it is increasing, incidentally. Remember, you can buy a lot of film for $7000. And a whole lot of Medium format lenses and film for $65000. (and you can't take a digital large format picture, yet. Not with anything moving in the frame, anyway.)
1. Film will continue to be produced (probably for quite some time). Especially black and white film. Fuji is currently revamping its product line, so I am not going to comment on them, but Kodak just came out with a new film in large format. Production will continue for some time, but may get very expensive. I expect the larger companies to pull out completely, but smaller ones to pick up where they left off. (this does not bode well for color film).
2. Another future of film is large format. With a wet plate holder, a photographer is independent of film producers (chemicals and glass will continue to be in production). Technically, this can be done forever. You can even make your own glass/metal sheet.
3. Paper: here is the kicker. Making enlarger paper is not trivial. There are only a couple of manufacturers. As each stops production, the chances that the remainders will continue increases. Handcoated papers are certainly manageable, but are usually made for contact printing (see: large format, above). I am sure it is technically possible to make enlarger paper yourself, but it is certainly not the same as Ilford MG IV. I doubt that paper production will stop in the next 20 years, so I am not worried about this.
4. Processing: large markets (especially large art markets) may continue to have processing for E-6 and B&W for a while. C-41 is still easy to track down locally. The next ten years will show a dramatic contraction in film processing, as noritsu machines around the world fall apart. Medium and large format are still serviced by pro-labs that use dip and dunk, so the cost may increase but should continue for a while.
On that note: in my area, B&W is being serviced by a single person hand processing film for $80 a roll with proofs. The fact that someone is willing to pay this is astounding. You can probably get a 35mm enlarger for that prices. The future of B&W processing is what it has always been: do it yourself.
5. Instant film. Wow. they are making more now than last year. Art market, of course, but who knew people would miss polaroids. (except the lamented type 55, which is still not in production).
Comment:
this is not meant to be inflammatory. In fact, I don't know why I am writing it. Digital is here. It makes consumer film obsolete (except those disposable cameras that you can still buy in the drugstore).
Commercial photography is now almost completely digital.
Art photography / amateur enthusiasts are the last bastions of film consumption. This is where it is increasing, incidentally. Remember, you can buy a lot of film for $7000. And a whole lot of Medium format lenses and film for $65000. (and you can't take a digital large format picture, yet. Not with anything moving in the frame, anyway.)
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
I was going to use this example when discussing collodion (wet-plate).
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I can't help wondering if the future of film photography lies in medium and large format. It seems to me to be the area where digital has little advantage unless you're talking mega megapixel digital MF backs I guess where being able to pixel peep and see that the model had a dust mite on one of her eyelashes during the shoot can seem important!
Film will definitely stay with us IMO but options will be reduced due to increased production costs. Colour film options in particular will really start to shrink very soon IMO!
Film will definitely stay with us IMO but options will be reduced due to increased production costs. Colour film options in particular will really start to shrink very soon IMO!
maggieo
More Deadly
How about a wet plate vs. film thread?
Krzys
Well-known
Isnt there a thread with this exact title every month? Let alone with this exact topic every week?
What is the future of coffee, with all these people drinking energy drinks, taking Nodos and whatnot!?
What is the future of coffee, with all these people drinking energy drinks, taking Nodos and whatnot!?
back alley
IMAGES
who can predict the future OF ANYTHING?
Krzys
Well-known
A Shaman?...
back alley
IMAGES
isn't that something you're not supposes to squeeze?
Krzys
Well-known
I don't know but it just told me some secrets of the films which will come and go over the next few years. I can't tell of course.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Digital medium format, regardless of resolution, can not be a substitute for large medium and large format when it comes to sheer scale, and its impact on DOF etc. Right now, most digital MF is what might be described as "6x4.5 crop", and even if there is a slow development towards real 6x4.5cm, we will not see 6x9cm, 4x5" or even bigger sensors any time soon - the digital revolution with tumbling chip prices was a result of downscaling, scale up and things start to become prohibitively expensive. Where sizes like that are desired or required, film will remain the only medium of choice for quite a while.
But film will hardly be restricted to areas where film is inevitable and useful - mankind is far too playful for that. Subminiature systems like the Minox and even much inferior toy cameras still have their fans and users - there obviously is no requirement for a system to be better than another to survive, probably not even one to be useful...
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I don't see this as a film verses digital argument though some will steer it that way!
We accept that film will survive by the OP's definition but where will it sit in the world of photography and for whom, what type of photographers will use it ... seems simple and the word 'digital' (guilty in last post and now this one ... sh!t) doesn't need to be seen! (much)
We accept that film will survive by the OP's definition but where will it sit in the world of photography and for whom, what type of photographers will use it ... seems simple and the word 'digital' (guilty in last post and now this one ... sh!t) doesn't need to be seen! (much)
Krzys
Well-known
The worst thing is that he had to start a thread on APUG too.
viridari
Photon Recovery Agent
My totally baseless predictions:
* E-6 will die of attrition.
* C-41 emulsions will drop off one by one
* The motion picture industry will experience a radical shift in favor of digital. After a few years of rapidly shrinking revenue in that market, the existing still photo market won't be able to pick up the slack.
* Kodak & Fuji then get out of film entirely. Color first, then B&W.
* Ilford/Harman becomes the big dog on the block. Other than introducing Delta 25, don't expect anything more than incremental improvements in existing emulsions, or existing emulsions being offered in formats not currently available.
* Other boutique film manufacturers thrive in a niche market no longer dominated by Kodak & Fuji. There will be a huge bump in their figures once Tri-X is gone.
* E-6 will die of attrition.
* C-41 emulsions will drop off one by one
* The motion picture industry will experience a radical shift in favor of digital. After a few years of rapidly shrinking revenue in that market, the existing still photo market won't be able to pick up the slack.
* Kodak & Fuji then get out of film entirely. Color first, then B&W.
* Ilford/Harman becomes the big dog on the block. Other than introducing Delta 25, don't expect anything more than incremental improvements in existing emulsions, or existing emulsions being offered in formats not currently available.
* Other boutique film manufacturers thrive in a niche market no longer dominated by Kodak & Fuji. There will be a huge bump in their figures once Tri-X is gone.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.