Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
My Canon f1.2 does most things I expect from a fast 50mm RF lens but I find it very slow to focus and it does flare in odd ways under artificial lights at times ... but what to use instead?
A Noctilux would be nice but unless I find one under my pillow ... not much chance of that! This leaves the new Nokton, which I'm not hugely impressed with so far, or the Sonnar C. The 1.2 Hex would be nice ... but again a little too much money! I intend selling my 50mm f2 Hex and adding a few hundred dollars to get what I want so I have a limit of around $1000.00 or so!
I'm tending to favour the Sonnar so would like to see some images from it and possibly some from the Nokton as well to compare ... if you have either of these lenses and can post some samples here it would be much appreciated!
A Noctilux would be nice but unless I find one under my pillow ... not much chance of that! This leaves the new Nokton, which I'm not hugely impressed with so far, or the Sonnar C. The 1.2 Hex would be nice ... but again a little too much money! I intend selling my 50mm f2 Hex and adding a few hundred dollars to get what I want so I have a limit of around $1000.00 or so!
I'm tending to favour the Sonnar so would like to see some images from it and possibly some from the Nokton as well to compare ... if you have either of these lenses and can post some samples here it would be much appreciated!
Justin Viiret
Established
I was faced with the same decision some time ago -- wanted a bit more extra speed than the Summicron DR, and something a bit more modern. Ended up with buying a pre-asph Summilux, which I love to bits, in Hong Kong. These pics on flickr are all taken with it. You'd have to stretch your price limit a little, though -- they're not down as cheap as $1K yet as far as I know.
Your choices probably come down to the sonnar or any of the noktons, the 50/1.1, 50/1.5 or the 40/1.4 if you're happy with the slightly wider AOV. I've only used the latter, which I quite liked for the year or two I had it -- it's nice and small, easy to focus, and I found that the framelines weren't a bother... just frame tightly with the 50 frame.
Your choices probably come down to the sonnar or any of the noktons, the 50/1.1, 50/1.5 or the 40/1.4 if you're happy with the slightly wider AOV. I've only used the latter, which I quite liked for the year or two I had it -- it's nice and small, easy to focus, and I found that the framelines weren't a bother... just frame tightly with the 50 frame.
john_s
Well-known
I have probably said more than enough here about my negative impression of the Sonnar focus shift, so all I would suggest is that you try before you buy.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Actually I hadn't considered making the stretch to a Summilux ... worth thinking about I guess because I do use a 50mm a lot and the reported focus shift of the Sonnar does concern me ... but that said I like the rendering.
Whether to have it optomised for f1.5 or f2.8 seems a strange choice to have to make when getting a lens IMO!
Whether to have it optomised for f1.5 or f2.8 seems a strange choice to have to make when getting a lens IMO!
kywong
Established
I have a Sonnar, love the rendering, but again, hate the focus shift, needless to say, it's not for everyone.
A Summilux III pre-asph has a lovely rendering too, no focus shift, but will cost well over $1000.
The second version should fit your budget, the same lovely rendering and a bit more compact. But the catch is that it has a longer focus throw (which may make it slow to focus) and a 0.9m or 1m minimum focus, which I guess isn't a problem since Sonnar only focuses to 0.9m too.
I quite like the Nokton 50mm F/1.5 too, my friend lent me his and it was this lens that got me hooked to fast lenses. I'm not a fan of the Nokton 50mm F/1.1 though, specifically the bokeh.
Here are a few photos taken with a Sonnar...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shoopdelang/tags/zeisszmsonnar50mm/
And a few with the Nokton...
http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/237/c/2/3_2_by_kevinwong.jpg
http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/206/5/8/2_1_by_kevinwong.jpg
http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/206/8/f/2_2_by_kevinwong.jpg
A Summilux III pre-asph has a lovely rendering too, no focus shift, but will cost well over $1000.
The second version should fit your budget, the same lovely rendering and a bit more compact. But the catch is that it has a longer focus throw (which may make it slow to focus) and a 0.9m or 1m minimum focus, which I guess isn't a problem since Sonnar only focuses to 0.9m too.
I quite like the Nokton 50mm F/1.5 too, my friend lent me his and it was this lens that got me hooked to fast lenses. I'm not a fan of the Nokton 50mm F/1.1 though, specifically the bokeh.
Here are a few photos taken with a Sonnar...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shoopdelang/tags/zeisszmsonnar50mm/
And a few with the Nokton...
http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/237/c/2/3_2_by_kevinwong.jpg
http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/206/5/8/2_1_by_kevinwong.jpg
http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/206/8/f/2_2_by_kevinwong.jpg
1.5 Nokton or its much older brother, the Canon 50/1.4. It appears to me that both of these lenses are similar in characteristics, and both produce excellent results.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I had the 1.5 Nokton and sold it for some reason I don't remember ... I wasn't overly impressed with the build quality though! Also had the 1.4 Canon but found the long focus throw annoying ... so sold it too!
I've got plenty of time to think about all this as I probably won't be doing anything until I get back from New Zealand in January some time.
Millennium 50/1.4 on an Amedeo adapter (someone had to say it )!
)!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Millennium 50/1.4 on an Amedeo adapter (someone had to say it
I was ogling a Millenium 1.4 recently in the classifieds ... and also googled Amadeo adapters.
So the thought has crossed my mind!
Of the lenses that I've experiences:
The focus throw of the Millenium Nikkor on the adapter will be 260degrees from 3ft to infinity. You will want to send the lens and have an adapter made "for it". My Zeiss Opton Sonnar required some custom "tweaking" for best use on the Amedeo adapter for spot-on at F1.5. I shimmed the lens.
The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 in LTM is sharper and has higher contrast, has harsh OOF.
The Summarit is soft wide-open, swirly Bokeh, and low-contrast. The early Summilux's will be about the same.
http://camwk.com/album.php?albumid=60
The Simlar 5cm F1.5 is more collector's item, but is closer in performance to a Summarit than anything else.
http://ziforums.com/album.php?albumid=94
The Canon 50/1.4 will only focus to 3.5ft. It is much sharper wide-open, and has more contrast than the F1.2.
I prefer my Wartime Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5in LTM for the OOF rendition. Early J-3's give the same performance, but work is required to find the right one and to optimize performance.
http://ziforums.com/album.php?albumid=141
http://camwk.com/album.php?albumid=65
http://camwk.com/album.php?albumid=47
The focus throw of the Millenium Nikkor on the adapter will be 260degrees from 3ft to infinity. You will want to send the lens and have an adapter made "for it". My Zeiss Opton Sonnar required some custom "tweaking" for best use on the Amedeo adapter for spot-on at F1.5. I shimmed the lens.
The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 in LTM is sharper and has higher contrast, has harsh OOF.
The Summarit is soft wide-open, swirly Bokeh, and low-contrast. The early Summilux's will be about the same.
http://camwk.com/album.php?albumid=60
The Simlar 5cm F1.5 is more collector's item, but is closer in performance to a Summarit than anything else.
http://ziforums.com/album.php?albumid=94
The Canon 50/1.4 will only focus to 3.5ft. It is much sharper wide-open, and has more contrast than the F1.2.
I prefer my Wartime Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5in LTM for the OOF rendition. Early J-3's give the same performance, but work is required to find the right one and to optimize performance.
http://ziforums.com/album.php?albumid=141
http://camwk.com/album.php?albumid=65
http://camwk.com/album.php?albumid=47
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elshaneo
Panographer
Keith,
Why not try the Zeiss Contax RF 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar lens + Amedeo Muscelli Contax RF to Leica M adapter?!
I'm actually waiting since a few days now to receive the adapter from Amedeo Muscelli so that I can use Zeiss Contax RF 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar lens on my Leica M2.
I really like the Zeiss Sonnar optical characteristics, I guess that most probably I'll sell my Canon RF LTM 50mm f/1.2 soon...
Why not try the Zeiss Contax RF 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar lens + Amedeo Muscelli Contax RF to Leica M adapter?!
I'm actually waiting since a few days now to receive the adapter from Amedeo Muscelli so that I can use Zeiss Contax RF 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar lens on my Leica M2.
I really like the Zeiss Sonnar optical characteristics, I guess that most probably I'll sell my Canon RF LTM 50mm f/1.2 soon...
Should not be an issue with an Amedeo adapter (with either a Contax to Leica or Nikon to Leica adapter) as he fine tunes his adapters with an M8.
With the Zeiss Opton Sonnars: watch for separation of the elements. Zeiss played sround with new cements, and some did not make it through the last 50 years. My Zeiss Opton 50/1.5's are all doing well, but are the older ones. The latest SN I have is a 14xxxxx range and is Okay. I've seen later ones develop Newton's Rings and require cementing.
I have two Amedeo Adapters. I also use a 15x Loupe for fine tuning. I custom shimmed the Post-War Zeiss 50/1.5 specific to the adapter for best performance at F1.5. Focus shift and individual lens characteristics come into play. I also custom shimmed a Nikon S2 to work with my other Zeiss Opton 50/1.5. I prefer the Nikon S2 with the lens.
http://camwk.com/album.php?albumid=55
Now for a fast lens, the F1.1 Nokton offers the best for-the-money speed, resolution, contrast, and optical corrections made possible through the use of modern computer design. You seem to prefer the vintage, designed by slide-rule paper and pencil era. As in personality folded into the design.
Keith- I want to flip the question around to this: What characteristics in a lens do you like? Your answer should be a list of characteristics. It will make answering your original question much easier. Which is of course, a Wartime Sonnar 5cm F1.5 in LTM.
LTM CZJ 5cm Sonnar "T", Wide-Open on the Canon P.
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TWoK
-
I really want to like the Nokton 50/1.1, but I've just seen nothing I like from it. I think a Summilux ASPH might be my best option for a native m-mount 50. The Nikkor is great, but it's just not a nice combo to carry all day on the adapter.
adrianzg
Established
all wide open at mfd:
summilux 1.4, 0.7m:
summarit at 1m:
nokton 1.1 at 1m:
sonnar prototype 1.5 at 1m:
as comparison due to difference in mfd, here is the lux wide open at 1m:
and how about a canon 1.5? it's a sonnar design and i prefer it over all the other sonnars:
summilux 1.4, 0.7m:
summarit at 1m:
nokton 1.1 at 1m:
sonnar prototype 1.5 at 1m:
as comparison due to difference in mfd, here is the lux wide open at 1m:
and how about a canon 1.5? it's a sonnar design and i prefer it over all the other sonnars:
mfogiel
Mentor
Keith,
I have the Canon 1.2, the Nokton 1.1, the C Sonnar 1.5 and the Summilux pre asph. I find the Nokton difficult to use (too low resolution wide open, and too much of the focus shift when stopped down), the Canon too flary and the C Sonnar too low contrast wide open. The best lens if you really need to shoot at f 1.4 and want some old style bokeh is the Summilux pre asph - it has a rendering half way sonnar style and half way old summicron style. Not terribly sharp in the corners, but a good all around fast lens with good B&W rendering.
I have the Canon 1.2, the Nokton 1.1, the C Sonnar 1.5 and the Summilux pre asph. I find the Nokton difficult to use (too low resolution wide open, and too much of the focus shift when stopped down), the Canon too flary and the C Sonnar too low contrast wide open. The best lens if you really need to shoot at f 1.4 and want some old style bokeh is the Summilux pre asph - it has a rendering half way sonnar style and half way old summicron style. Not terribly sharp in the corners, but a good all around fast lens with good B&W rendering.
ferider
Mentor
My personal choice is the pre-as. Slx v2. But I like long throw.
Since you want short throw and stay below US 1k, there are not that many choices, Nokton 1.5 & C-Sonnar, both great lenses, with the C-Sonnar having most character.
The Millenium Nikkor is outstanding, if you don't mind the adapter you could get the combo below US 1k. But the adapter is long throw.
I've seen Amedeo convert Rollei 50/1.4 HFT lenses, should be an outstanding all-rounder, you might want to check with him.
Or how about a 40 ? (The Nokton is a bit longer actually).
Cheers,
Roland.
Since you want short throw and stay below US 1k, there are not that many choices, Nokton 1.5 & C-Sonnar, both great lenses, with the C-Sonnar having most character.
The Millenium Nikkor is outstanding, if you don't mind the adapter you could get the combo below US 1k. But the adapter is long throw.
I've seen Amedeo convert Rollei 50/1.4 HFT lenses, should be an outstanding all-rounder, you might want to check with him.
Or how about a 40 ? (The Nokton is a bit longer actually).
Cheers,
Roland.
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helen.HH
A smile & a wink…
The pre asph Summilux is a Gem ...ver 2
you can probably find one @Igors cameras for 795. to 1000.00
I recently acquired a 1.5 nokton which I am ENJOYING
here is the pre asph lux
you can probably find one @Igors cameras for 795. to 1000.00
I recently acquired a 1.5 nokton which I am ENJOYING
here is the pre asph lux
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payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Is no one speaking of the Jupiter 3 because it costs only about a tenth of $1,000? It isn't new, but undoubtedly it is a Sonnar. I have an evil looking one which has worked well after Kim Coxon fixed it, and there are members who have examples on which Brian Sweeney has worked.