DwF
Well-known
The front cell focusing works fine provided the camera is calibrated correctly. I read this too and about poor focus particularly at infinity but that is not my experience. There are many pics on line that would give you an idea of the capabilities.
David
David
I'm happy for you that yours is behaving. Just be very gentle erecting and collapsing the struts and keep the bellows treated, they do not age well. The film advance is not bulletproof but I don't think it is that bad. The gears are reasonable. How well the ratchets would tolerate extended rough handling is another matter. But if you're gentle winding yours, I would not be too worried about that.
The focus is clever, no doubt about that. Actually, I liked the gear system that connects the two focus shafts on left and right. No problems there. But...the brass eccentric cams simply push against the underside of the film rail plate. Which is...plain mild steel. Yes they would have been lubricated originally. But every time you rotate the focus wheel, those cams are wiping across the underside of the plate. Once the plate wears there's no way to correct the parallelism. Short of gluing strips of shim to the plate I suppose, which is a bit too desperate for my liking.
Again, the basic concept of the focus system is inspired. But its execution is cheap and under-built. It's a disposable mechanism. Great when it works. Once it's worn (just like the struts), forget it.
So, the dilemma one faces if seeking out a Six in 2021, is that you really have to find a time warp specimen that's barely been used. If you do and you use it lightly and treat it gently you may have a good experience. Not good odds, I'd suggest.
Retro-Grouch
Mentor
As for the Iskra, I have one, and I'm thrilled with it. An absolutely stellar Industar lens (Tessar formula). I purchased mine from Yuri at fedka.com, which is half the battle when shopping for FSU equipment; he has his tech in Ukraine CLA all cameras before they come to him for sale. Most importantly with the Iskra, he adjusts the mechanical sensor which controls the winding and frame spacing. This is crucial, since contemporary backing papers are a different thickness from those of 60 years ago. Iskras have an undeserved reputation for erratic spacing because of this.
An Iskra is several notches above the usual level of fit and finish from the FSU. The finder on mine is bright and clear with a very crisp RF patch, and is a pleasure to use.
No folder is convenient or quick-handling, but, as folders go, the Iskra gets my vote. Just expect to pay more for one from Yuri, but it's better than gambling with The Evil Website.
An Iskra is several notches above the usual level of fit and finish from the FSU. The finder on mine is bright and clear with a very crisp RF patch, and is a pleasure to use.
No folder is convenient or quick-handling, but, as folders go, the Iskra gets my vote. Just expect to pay more for one from Yuri, but it's better than gambling with The Evil Website.
Nickel
Newbie
I am in NZ too.
I purchased an Iskra from OKVintageCamera.com, he's in Russia, and he too does a CLA on everything he sells? He has a good rep on this site.
Possibly more than a Bay purchased but it will be reliable when you get it.
I also have the Zeiss cameras mentioned, they are beautifully made a real step above most other.
I purchased an Iskra from OKVintageCamera.com, he's in Russia, and he too does a CLA on everything he sells? He has a good rep on this site.
Possibly more than a Bay purchased but it will be reliable when you get it.
I also have the Zeiss cameras mentioned, they are beautifully made a real step above most other.
madeleineostoja
Member
Thanks for the tip! He seems a bit cheaper than fedka, could be a good in-between option. I'm somewhat able to at least clean lenses and things myself, and I have a guy locally that CLAs cameras pretty cheap.
Of the three possibilities you mentioned: if you can live without a coupled rangefinder, you could do a darned sight worse than a Voigtländer Perkeo with the Color-Skopar lens. It's a fine tessar type coated lens. Nobody, repeat—nobody—made folders with better quality bellows leather than Voigtländer. You would have to be quite unlucky to find some leaks, they are usually light proof and in good repair. Best of all, the Perkeo struts are some of the better made and durable ones found on a folding camera.
Forget your quest for this or that lens: no matter how good a particular one is, if it's not erected in correct parallelism with the film plane, results will vary from so-so to mediocre. A humble four element coated tessar-type, properly aligned to the film, will out perform the most exotic alternatives that are mounted to a lens standard that's out of plumb. Rangefinders are either not fitted to the Perkeos, or are not coupled. But a decent accessory rangefinder in good order and a fine Perkeo, combined, will still be substantially less expensive than various other alternatives mentioned. Yes, you could find a Perkeo with built-in rangefinder. But it's not coupled to the lens, anyway. Unless the form factor is a compelling consideration, you will get exactly the same functionality with a simpler, more common and more affordable Perkeo with a shoe mounted rangefinder.
Whatever camera you end up with, it's critical the struts are in good condition without wear in their pivots and have stops and detents in good repair. Alignment of lens to film plane may be checked either optically or using surface plate and height or dial gauges. Re-aligning the lens standard of a folder that's askew can be a major PITA at best—consider for a moment the motion involved in opening the bed and erecting the standard of a typical folder—and then think about how many planes are involved in getting lens centred, parallel, and at the correct distance from film, repeatedly. So, if you are set on a folder, you better make sure it's clean and straight, because repairs can be a problem if one is not.
Lastly, you've mentioned you want a folder for image quality over 35mm. If image quality is what it's all about: you've got a pretty good start with your C220. I used to own one. There was nothing wrong with the camera or the sharpness of its 80mm lens. Actually, as a self-confessed Rollei devotee, it surprised me as to just how good its image quality was. I bring up your TLR because a good one (and your Mamiya is certainly that) is all the things a folder is not: well aligned, long-wearing, precision-focusing, durable, and robust. These are all things which, ultimately, contribute to predictably high image quality. Rollei, for example, generally used the best readily available lenses of the day in their TLRs. That's no secret. What is, perhaps, less well appreciated is that the extreme accuracy of Franke & Heidecke's manufacturing, and the Rollei focus system design was at least as important as those lenses. Even the best quality folding camera, when new, was handicapped in terms of lens alignment, and this is critical to maximum sharpness.
I'm not trying to discourage you from getting a folder here, in any way, I have a few myself (and yes, I believe they are all Voigtländers, too—I practice what I preach). My little Vitessa folder is one of my favourite cameras, period. It's a delight to use and my Perkeo and one of my pmre-war 6x9 Bessas have been trouble-free. A good folder can be a delight. You are the one who'll have to get along with your choice, whatever that may be. I hope I may have helped you sidestep some not uncommon problems you'll probably encounter, and perhaps to be more certain as to why you may want a vintage folder and what to expect from one? If 6x9 was what you were after I might even have been able to help, I have a couple of Bessas here I've been asked to find homes for: but as lovely as the big Bessa folders are they're nowhere near as petite as a 6x6 folder, and in standard form are 8-on 6x9 ratio...
Please do follow up with whatever it is you get. This forum is a good resource and mostly friendly, but more active female members would be most welcome IMHO.
Cheers,
Brett
Larry Cloetta
Mentor
Nobody’s mentioned the fact/myth that the Iskra used the last of the Zeiss glass made before the war that the Soviets made off with as part of their self adjudicated idea of “reparations”, not only taking everything that wasn’t nailed down, but the stuff that was nailed down as well, along with the workers who happened to be standing next to it.
https://kosmofoto.com/2014/02/iskra-soviet-medium-format-film-photography-portrait/
This link is hardly the only place that idea is voiced as if it’s a known fact. I am not in a position to know if it’s true, those who were are likely all dead, but, if mine is any example, I do know that it’s a really nice camera, capable of producing results that seem lens specific, in the same way images from my Rolleiflex seem somewhat “special” to me. It’s not good for a folder, it’s a really nice camera, in general.
They are obviously prone to gear related transport problems due to some known durability issues with specific parts, but the Super Isolette which the Iskra is an unabashed copy of has the same issues, to a lesser extent. I got lucky, mine is fine, but I’d recommend Fedka, or maybe Oleg.
I’d like to see a cat fight break out regarding the Zeiss glass bit, though, just to enliven the proceedings. I’m prone to believe it based on personal experience coupled with high levels of suggestibility.
And, it’s a full blooded 6x6, not some half hearted vaguely sort of but not quite medium format camera that produces those smaller frames (more pix per roll!) that either have to be cropped off the horizontal or the vertical to get the prints to fit into any readily available frame.
https://kosmofoto.com/2014/02/iskra-soviet-medium-format-film-photography-portrait/
This link is hardly the only place that idea is voiced as if it’s a known fact. I am not in a position to know if it’s true, those who were are likely all dead, but, if mine is any example, I do know that it’s a really nice camera, capable of producing results that seem lens specific, in the same way images from my Rolleiflex seem somewhat “special” to me. It’s not good for a folder, it’s a really nice camera, in general.
They are obviously prone to gear related transport problems due to some known durability issues with specific parts, but the Super Isolette which the Iskra is an unabashed copy of has the same issues, to a lesser extent. I got lucky, mine is fine, but I’d recommend Fedka, or maybe Oleg.
I’d like to see a cat fight break out regarding the Zeiss glass bit, though, just to enliven the proceedings. I’m prone to believe it based on personal experience coupled with high levels of suggestibility.
And, it’s a full blooded 6x6, not some half hearted vaguely sort of but not quite medium format camera that produces those smaller frames (more pix per roll!) that either have to be cropped off the horizontal or the vertical to get the prints to fit into any readily available frame.
Retro-Grouch
Mentor
Good heavens, Larry! Since 6x6 is such a chest-thumping, man-sized format, should the OP even be allowed to use it? Kidding, just kidding!
Larry Cloetta
Mentor
So was I. Most of my posts are jokes, and all of my photos are cliches.
madeleineostoja
Member
Thanks for the extremely thorough reply Brett! The more I read and think about it the more I'm thinking maybe a folder isn't for me after all. I really love the idea in theory — medium format in my bag for my daily photo walks at lunchtime — but it sounds like I'd almost be better off sticking with my reliable and lovely Konica IIIA 35mm.
I do love my C220 and the images I get from it, but it's just too bulky to casually throw in a tote. I sold my old Rolleiflex MX to get it, and I kind of regret it. I thought I needed a system camera in 120 if I was 'serious', but in reality I mostly use the 80mm lens anyway, and I prefer the closer to ~40mm FOV that the 75mm of the rollei gave too.
Maaaybe what I should do is just buy another more compact, lightweight TLR instead, and only use the C220 for wide/long lenses. So many options!
And yeah I don't mind if it doesn't have a rangefinder, I have a few scale focussers (namely my Rollei 35 and Pen S) and I've gotten pretty good at zone focussing.
I actually do own one folder, an old Ikonta 521/2, but he lives on the shelf, I've put maybe one roll through it and the results were... interesting.
I do love my C220 and the images I get from it, but it's just too bulky to casually throw in a tote. I sold my old Rolleiflex MX to get it, and I kind of regret it. I thought I needed a system camera in 120 if I was 'serious', but in reality I mostly use the 80mm lens anyway, and I prefer the closer to ~40mm FOV that the 75mm of the rollei gave too.
Maaaybe what I should do is just buy another more compact, lightweight TLR instead, and only use the C220 for wide/long lenses. So many options!
And yeah I don't mind if it doesn't have a rangefinder, I have a few scale focussers (namely my Rollei 35 and Pen S) and I've gotten pretty good at zone focussing.
I actually do own one folder, an old Ikonta 521/2, but he lives on the shelf, I've put maybe one roll through it and the results were... interesting.
Retro-Grouch
Mentor
Perhaps a two-lens kit for the C220, and a folder for the "always-with-me" times? Though I did just sing the praises of my Iskra, it's certainly not my everything camera! All folders are awkward and inconvenient, but a compact folder is a lot more fun to carry all day than a Hassie on a neck strap, trust me. The other great thing about a folder (and a TLR) is the ability to hand-hold for lower shutter speeds. For me, anything below 1/250 on the Hassie is questionable, leaving essentially two usable shutter speeds. I can hold the Iskra at 1/60, thanks to its smooth release. That makes quite a difference sometimes!
Whether owning an Iskra or something else, I really couldn't imagine being a medium format shooter without having a compact folder in my tool kit.
Whether owning an Iskra or something else, I really couldn't imagine being a medium format shooter without having a compact folder in my tool kit.
DwF
Well-known
Madeleine,
From your comment here I am guessing maybe your Ikonta 521/2 is need of attention. These cameras are really good assuming they are CLA'd This picture was made with my Ikonta 521 B (sadly I sold it), similar to your 521/2 except 6x6.
I wouldn't want to put you off folders altogether, they can certainly be fun to use, fun is good. And certainly wouldn't want to suggest you cannot get high image quality from a folding camera. After all not so many years ago Fuji made a folding 6x7 capable of, (from what I have seen from them) stunning image quality. For that matter, my own Super Technika from 1956 is, strictly speaking, a folding camera and performs well. So, folding cameras and quality aren't mutually exclusive. But with most types dating back to the early 1960s, at least, the concern isn't necessarily what a folder was like, new—it's how rigid and well aligned it still is, in 2021 etc.
If you can fly without a rangefinder and fancy the convenience and compactness of a folder, a Perkeo I with 75mm Color-Skopar can occasionally be snared quite cheaply and as I previously outlined they're a good bet. Granted, the shutter might like a clean, but with folding cameras of the period virtually universally having a lens shutter, you could say the same about almost any other choice.
Personally, I think your particular Mamiya is the pick of all their TLRs. It is a little lighter than the 330 series. Without auto shutter cocking they accept any TLR lens pairs Mamiya ever made. And whilst I would certainly not call the 330 an unreliable model, they are known for giving occasional problems with their integrated wind and cocking mechanism. What is incontrovertible is with its simpler manual lens cocking this is a problem the C220 can never have. They're the sweet spot.
That said: even a 220 is not the lightest or most compact TLR. As you like the 75mm focal length I encourage you to consider a Rolleicord V. It is the best handling of all the Rolleicord models and a bit cheaper than Va & Vb models. The coated Schneider 75mm Xenar f/3.5 lens fitted to them is excellent, and was in fact fitted to certain Rolleiflex Automat models too. It's a great all round performer. The only serious reason to defer to a (considerably more expensive) late Planar or Xenotar is if you must shoot wide open and make large prints. Xenar centre sharpness is good at all apertures and edges acceptable. By f/5.6–8 it's excellent, edge to edge. The V is a particular favourite of mine. If you ran into problems with one I'm not so far away in Tasmania and could probably help you sort it.
Cheers
Brett
viboons
Established
I have both, Mamiya 6 and Iskra. Mamiya is less heavy and easier to focus. I sent both to CLA and the repairer told me that Mamiya was easier to work with and had better material.
For the image quality from my cameras. Both are almost no different. But in close range and wide open my Iskra has some edge over my Mamiya.
First one is Iskra and 2nd is Mamiya.
For the image quality from my cameras. Both are almost no different. But in close range and wide open my Iskra has some edge over my Mamiya.
First one is Iskra and 2nd is Mamiya.
Attachments
Larry Cloetta
Mentor
^^^^^ Finally, someone who has both and can answer the original question. It’s an odd pairing, I didn’t think anyone would show up who had both. I really like the lens on my Iskra, but never had the Mamiya.
Thanks for posting.
Thanks for posting.
aizan
Mentor
What are the chances of finding someone who has both? 
There are some good deals on Zeiss Ikonta B 523/16 with 75/3.5 Tessars at the auction site. There’s also a really clean 521/16 with a 75/3.5 Novar-Anastigmat, but I call dibs.
There are some good deals on Zeiss Ikonta B 523/16 with 75/3.5 Tessars at the auction site. There’s also a really clean 521/16 with a 75/3.5 Novar-Anastigmat, but I call dibs.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I heartily second Brett's endorsement of the Perkeo I and the Rolleicord V, though I agree that, lightweight as it is (especially compared with a Rolleiflex and certainly with a Mamiya TLR), a Rolleicord is never going to be as compact as a medium format folder.
The Perkeo "only" has a Vaskar 3-element lens and a Pronto shutter (B, 25, 50, 100, 200), and red window winding, so it's a notch below the Perkeo II. But it's really well made, with sturdy struts (which as he points out is a a critical factor for sharpness). The simplicity of the camera makes it quite reliable I think. And you'd be surprised how compact they are.
I love the Mamiyas but they are indeed heavy. And I find that parallax and exposure compensation can get very tricky with these if you're focusing anywhere inside about 10 feet (with the 80mm lens).
The Perkeo "only" has a Vaskar 3-element lens and a Pronto shutter (B, 25, 50, 100, 200), and red window winding, so it's a notch below the Perkeo II. But it's really well made, with sturdy struts (which as he points out is a a critical factor for sharpness). The simplicity of the camera makes it quite reliable I think. And you'd be surprised how compact they are.
I love the Mamiyas but they are indeed heavy. And I find that parallax and exposure compensation can get very tricky with these if you're focusing anywhere inside about 10 feet (with the 80mm lens).
DwF
Well-known
I am fully in agreement re Perkeo here only to add that there are Perkeo I cameras out there fitted with the Color Skopar f 3.5 and Prontor S shutter, and worth watching for.
Also +1 AIZAN's post on the deals on Zeiss Ikontas A and B. The 521 is a fabulous camera, super compact and I love how solid they feel and easy to operate they are.
And to Larry's point well taken to whether these are consistent with the OP, this thread has morphed considerably- nice that it found someone who had used both
David
