krötenblender
Well-known
Recently I learned about this lens, because I'm searching a small and light 28mm. This lens seems to be really nice, but as common as Unicorns...
Here in Germany I'm simply not able to find one, except one for one from Italy for a completely ridiculous price tag in a not so good condition. - I could get a mint Zeiss 28mm/2,8 ZM for the price easily. - But they would be heavier and bigger.
How good is this lens and what would be a good alternative? Would it be good enough to resolve the full 24mpixels on a M10? There is a Canon Serenar 28mm 3,5, which one could get for nearly half the price...
I know, I loved Color Skopars, I had the 35mm LTM two times and now the new pancake M-version, also to 50mm Color Skopar. All of them feel great and give really good results.
So, how about the 28mm? Is it worth the effort to search for it, or are there other alternatives, which are a little bit more common and easy to get?
Thanks in advance!
Here in Germany I'm simply not able to find one, except one for one from Italy for a completely ridiculous price tag in a not so good condition. - I could get a mint Zeiss 28mm/2,8 ZM for the price easily. - But they would be heavier and bigger.
How good is this lens and what would be a good alternative? Would it be good enough to resolve the full 24mpixels on a M10? There is a Canon Serenar 28mm 3,5, which one could get for nearly half the price...
I know, I loved Color Skopars, I had the 35mm LTM two times and now the new pancake M-version, also to 50mm Color Skopar. All of them feel great and give really good results.
So, how about the 28mm? Is it worth the effort to search for it, or are there other alternatives, which are a little bit more common and easy to get?
Thanks in advance!
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The Color Skopar 28mm f/3.5 may well be the best performing of the*modern Color Skopar lenses. It's not the best performer on a digital sensor, but IMO it outperforms other Cosina/Voigtländer 28mm lenses and even a few other makes and models of 28mm lens too.
The optical design of the CS28/3.5 produces some color shifting and light falloff on any digital sensor body. I find it acceptable for B&W work but too difficult to get clean results with for color.
A 28mm lens for a digital body like the M10...? I'd go with a Leica lens that has the six bit code. Any of those will work better.
The optical design of the CS28/3.5 produces some color shifting and light falloff on any digital sensor body. I find it acceptable for B&W work but too difficult to get clean results with for color.
A 28mm lens for a digital body like the M10...? I'd go with a Leica lens that has the six bit code. Any of those will work better.
Larry H-L
Well-known
I think it is popular because it is small and renderers beautiful tonalities on black and white film. It is very dense, heavier than it appears. On my RD-1, it vignettes significantly, I am not certain how it might work on an M10.
lawrence
Mentor
I have both the Color-Skopar and the Canon Serenar and they are very different lenses. The Serenar is a lovely old-school lens, released in the month I was born (Oct 1951), single coated and not very sharp until stopped down quite a bit, with low contrast by modern standards. The C-S is a modern lens that is contrasty and highly flare-resistant. It is, for me, sharp enough wide open but also improves a bit on stopping down and it handles better than the Serenar, which has a somewhat fiddly aperture ring as well as an infinity lock. One thing I do like about the Serenar is the way it 'draws'. The C-S seems to me to be quite clinical with a bit of pincushion distortion whereas the Serenar is more 'relaxed' and distortion free. I only shoot film but would imagine that the C-S is the one to go for if you shoot digital.
krötenblender
Well-known
Thank you, this was the kind of information, I was searching for.
Digital and color are important to me, so this lens is no good for me. Bummer...
I had a Leica 6bit Elmarit ASPH. with my M240, and sold it with that camera. I liked that lens very much, but was hoping for something even smaller and lighter on a digital body, since I use 28mm very seldom and only need it, when in very crowded and narrow places and then I use it more like P&S-style.
It looked so intriguing...
Archlich
Well-known
Small and light 28mm lenses:
Avenon / Kobalux 28/3.5 - do note that there are generally two versions of lenses (each comprised of several minor revisions) with slightly different optical design and coating. Very small, thin, fine pancake lens.
Minolta M-Rokkor 28/2.8 - top performer when white spots free. Brings up 35mm frame line on a M, can be modified.
Canon Serenar 28/2.8 - Winogrand classic.
Rarities:
Ricoh GR 28/2.8 - limited production lens. Very high, modern performance, which I consider to be on par with the Leica 28/2.8 ASPH.
Minolta G-Rokkor 28/3.5 - limited production lens. High resolution in image center and heavy vignetting. A tasty one.
MS-Optical 28/2 - extremely thin, small, with vintage (=soft) signature wide open. I think it's on par with the Leica 28/5.6 summaron, as both are double gauss designs.
MS-Optical conversions - if you have means in Japan, these converted lenses often show up on Yahoo Auction. The Fujinon 28/3.5 from Fuji Tiara (aka DL Super Mini), the nikon lens from the Nikon AF600, and the more prominent Nikkor 28/2.8 fron the Nikon 28Ti are all very fine performance. All have very low profiles.
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Despite having experience with many lenses in the class, I returned to and kept the Color-Skopar. It's modern enough, small but hefty enough and I don't have to worry about its potential resale value - a black one looks even nicer when worn.
My gripe is that it rattles and have uneven movement during the focus throw, due not to (the fine) craftsmanship and material but the less than optimal lens body design, as with many other Voigtlander lenses. It's fixable though.
Avenon / Kobalux 28/3.5 - do note that there are generally two versions of lenses (each comprised of several minor revisions) with slightly different optical design and coating. Very small, thin, fine pancake lens.
Minolta M-Rokkor 28/2.8 - top performer when white spots free. Brings up 35mm frame line on a M, can be modified.
Canon Serenar 28/2.8 - Winogrand classic.
Rarities:
Ricoh GR 28/2.8 - limited production lens. Very high, modern performance, which I consider to be on par with the Leica 28/2.8 ASPH.
Minolta G-Rokkor 28/3.5 - limited production lens. High resolution in image center and heavy vignetting. A tasty one.
MS-Optical 28/2 - extremely thin, small, with vintage (=soft) signature wide open. I think it's on par with the Leica 28/5.6 summaron, as both are double gauss designs.
MS-Optical conversions - if you have means in Japan, these converted lenses often show up on Yahoo Auction. The Fujinon 28/3.5 from Fuji Tiara (aka DL Super Mini), the nikon lens from the Nikon AF600, and the more prominent Nikkor 28/2.8 fron the Nikon 28Ti are all very fine performance. All have very low profiles.
-
Despite having experience with many lenses in the class, I returned to and kept the Color-Skopar. It's modern enough, small but hefty enough and I don't have to worry about its potential resale value - a black one looks even nicer when worn.
My gripe is that it rattles and have uneven movement during the focus throw, due not to (the fine) craftsmanship and material but the less than optimal lens body design, as with many other Voigtlander lenses. It's fixable though.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Nikkor LTM 28mm 3.5. Minute, 34.5mm filter. Low contrast, 1950s lens.
W-Komura LTM 28mm 3.5. Not small, 55mm filter thread. But very good, higher contrast than other 1960s lenses. I know one for sale from an online shop for eur 300.
W-Komura LTM 28mm 3.5. Not small, 55mm filter thread. But very good, higher contrast than other 1960s lenses. I know one for sale from an online shop for eur 300.
krötenblender
Well-known
Well, small and light is a must. If it is not smaller and lighter than a Leica Elmarit ASPH., then it doesn't make sense for me. The lens has to be suitable for color and digital, too, since I'm more or less done with film.
The options from MS Optical... I had the 50mm 1,1 once, and although I really liked how small and light it was, I hated the handling and was less than impressed by it's image quality. More a nice oddity, than a good working lens.
OTOH, the Color Skopars I had, always impressed me (and still do).
I think, VC should bring an M-version of that lens, a little bit optimized for digital sensors.
krötenblender
Well-known
I had one once. I loved the ergonomics, size and weight, but wasn't impressed with image quality. Not sure why, but the images never seemed to be as "alive" as those I shot with the Elmarit ASPH., the colors... I don't know.
The others I have no personal experience with. Maybe I should have a look at some of them.
That's a little much, but it is no longer made and those that have it, love it.
The Skopar 28mm F3.5 is small. But the barrel is made of brass so its probably heavier than an Elmarit ASPH.
The Elmarit ASPH is really hard to beat in terms of weight. All the classic 28mm lens (Canon etc) are probably heavier.
I think your best bet is to get another Elmarit ASPH.
krötenblender
Well-known
Nope, 163g vs. 211g (new version of Elmarit, #11677) with lens shade.
Yes, maybe I will do that. It's just that the usage/price ratio is not really a good one, when I use that lens only a few times a year.
bayernfan
Well-known
i use the VC 28/3.5 exclusively on LTM bodies. paired to my If it makes for very compact and attractive bit of kit.
kxl
Social Documentary
I don't often shoot with a 28mm, but when I do I use the M-Hexanon 28mm/2.8.
(Yeah, I know... I watch too much TV.)
(Yeah, I know... I watch too much TV.)
don't forget the same optics are in the SC 28/3.5 for Nikon or Contax rangefinders
krötenblender
Well-known
Couldn't forget that, since I didn't even knew...
However, one of the first comments were the most important to me: that lens is probably not too good for color on a digital Leica. But that would be my only use for it.
I was just thinking, that this lens could make sense as an alternative, since Voigtländer has some really impressive and yet small and light lenses, even for digital. I love the other Color Skopars that I own(ed), even on my digital bodies.
fotomeow
name under my name
Well, that is a critical piece of info. NO wonder the people who own and love this lens are often shooting BW with it, particularly film, with impressive results. But I may speculate that the modern glass coatings give the 28/3.5 the IQ of a modern sharp lens.
I second or third the Canon Serena 28/2.8. I think mine is a late 60s model. It MIGHT be labeled as "low-medium contrast", but the sharpness of the lens creates an illusion of a bit more than medium contrast. Still, it's nothing like a modern sharp/contrasts lenses, which I generally don't like.
This is nonsense... it works just fine for color. I've used it on a M8 and a M9. It was completely normal.
Erik van Straten
Mentor
I am always surprised that people think that there are two kinds of lenses: lenses for digital and lenses for film. A lens is a lens, gentlemen, no more, no less.
Erik.
Erik.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Perhaps these can give you a better idea of how the Color Skopar 28mm f/3.5 performs on the current digital Leica bodies. I fitted mine to the Leica M-D typ 262. No lens profiles applied, minimal processing.
White wall test, exposure f/5.6 @ ISO 800, EV compensation +1:
Get to +3 EV comp and the effect is much less noticeable, but whether that translates to performance in average image situations is a question mark.
Here are two quick snaps of my dining table and patio through the living room windows:
You can see the color shifting at the edges, but it's reasonably subdued for these examples without a broad even-colored field.
G
White wall test, exposure f/5.6 @ ISO 800, EV compensation +1:
Get to +3 EV comp and the effect is much less noticeable, but whether that translates to performance in average image situations is a question mark.
Here are two quick snaps of my dining table and patio through the living room windows:
You can see the color shifting at the edges, but it's reasonably subdued for these examples without a broad even-colored field.
G