Frontman
Well-known
Not on your list, but I just got a Fuji X100T. It doesn't have a true optical rangefinder, but I was surprised that it has a digital split-image focusing aid. I have had it only for a couple days, and can't put it down.
In regards to the cameras on your list, the Epson RD1 is the best value in regards to cost/performance, and even more so in regards to reliability.
In regards to the cameras on your list, the Epson RD1 is the best value in regards to cost/performance, and even more so in regards to reliability.
rbelyell
Well-known
yes, epson is by far the best value. its by far the easiest to operate in every conceivable way one wants to measure that category. its by far the most reliable. its by far the easiest to DIY adjust. its by far the cheapest to fix. and ump-teen years later it still performes better at iso 1600 than its competitors. theres no miore, no color shift, no corner shift nor focus shift. i'm not knocking the m8/9 and the images they produce, but if you go category by category, and then divide by price, its hard to see a way to a different conclusion. i will run mine into the ground and then buy another one. just for the 1:1 vf and the user-set frame lines alone, i honestly would not consider any of the alternatives, even if 'value' were not the criterion we're discussing.
I'd say the M9.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Reviewing this thread, my response from the beginning of the year seems right on. My M9 needed a sensor replacement and I opted for the M-P upgrade. I could not be happier than I am with the M-P: to me, this is the digital Leica M finally fully realized and modernized with excellent capabilities that extend its versatility and quality, a camera on par with my film Ms of the past and present.
I expect to be shooting with it for years to come.
G
I expect to be shooting with it for years to come.
G
Leica M (typ 240)
Why is it the best value?
- Its sensor produces better results with a wider range of Leica M-mount and threaded-mount lenses than any of the others. It is also eminently useful with the full range of Leica R lenses, which are outstanding quality.
- Both its hardware and firmware is under ongoing development for future products. (While Leica is working on the M9/M9-P/M-E/M Monochrom sensor issue, I don't think there are any new products intended for release based on that series technology. The M (typ 240) is what new products that aren't just a cosmetic treatment will be based on going forward.)
- Its reliability and repair history is better than all prior Leica digital M models as well as the Epson R-D1 models.
- Parts and service for the M (typ 240) will be available for a long time to come; there are limits on both for the Epson and M8 series cameras already.
- The M (typ 240) is more versatile, more sensitive, and more robust than any of the prior models. (Video capture, weather sealing, GPS interface, Live View, etc etc all enhance and expand upon the capabilities of the basic Leica M camera model.)
Sometimes, the best value costs more.
BTW, why not put the correct and proper name for the Leica M (typ 240) in the list as well as all three nicknames? And you missed the Leica M Edition 60 (typ 240) in the list.
G
... When I upgrade from the M9 to the typ 240 series, I'll go with the M-P model because even if it is a bit more expensive than the M, the durability of the LCD cover glass, reinstatement of the frame line selector lever, and improvements in buffering space and speed will be worth the additional money for a long term purchase.
MCTuomey
Mentor
Most imaging potential for the money I'd say M8/8u/8.2.
Most value in use for the money I'd say a used M240.
And the M9/MM cameras are somewhere in the middle.
And now there's the Q which may change the entire M value proposition.
Most value in use for the money I'd say a used M240.
And the M9/MM cameras are somewhere in the middle.
And now there's the Q which may change the entire M value proposition.
swatch
Established
1st full frame sensor rangefinder camera M9
market price of digital camera always go down ( c/p ratio goes up ) but being 1st is valuable in history
market price of digital camera always go down ( c/p ratio goes up ) but being 1st is valuable in history
Canyongazer
Canyongazer
While not a real RF, I've gotta agree, Vick.
The GF1 or GX1 w/ the 20mm 1.7 is one heck of a good---and cheap---image machine.
It's best to keep the ISO below 800 but, OTOH, it performs quite well at f2 and there is little or no need to stop down past f4.
OK, upon further reflection, really good and really cheap.
small and light, too,
jarski
Mentor
voted M9, especially now when Leica has worked solution for the sensor issues they had earlier this year.
but seen couple appealing offers on M8.2 lately, prices are finally coming down a bit? a Sony effect perhaps, used A7's with appealing prices available (obviously no RF, but large sensor for M-lenses).
but seen couple appealing offers on M8.2 lately, prices are finally coming down a bit? a Sony effect perhaps, used A7's with appealing prices available (obviously no RF, but large sensor for M-lenses).
jamin-b
Well-known
here are some recent shots in Nepal, not by me, from that "no value" camera, the M8.
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/920070/1112#12794251
In my opinion, the M8 is the most underrated camera today. The thinnest filter stack ever over the sensor, and very modest 1.3x crop, I have seen so many jaw dropping images from that machine.....
No, I don't own one, and like you I covet FF, but I would never discount the M8 myself. At 1500 or so, it is a fantastic value, if results trump specs on paper, or romantic thoughts of what was meant to be.
I own an M8, and totally agree. Bought mine 2nd hand for $1300 a few years back and have never had any issues (besides the ocassional ugly purple "black" clothing
. It's been great enough to allow me to withstand the lures of GAS (at least with respect to newer Leica digital RFs )
ray*j*gun
Mentor
I have an M8u and its been excellent. Any image improvement from the FF Rf's is not worth trading up IMO.
froyd
Mentor
Is the M8 lighter than the M240? I had a chance to handle one lately and boy, what a beast that is! Sure, smaller and lighter than many other FF alternatives, but a bit of a heifer for an M-system camera.
jchfriis
Member
Yes, the M8 is indeed lighter, about the same as the film cameras. Here are the measurements according to Leica:
M8: 139x80x37 mm. 545g plus battery 41g= 586g (According to my kitchen scale it is 600 g.)
M240: 139x80x42 mm. 680 g. I don't know if that includes the battery
M7: 138x79.5x38 mm. 610 g.
MP: 138x77x38 mm. 585 g.
uhoh7
Mentor
No kidding. But there are users who claim they like it that way :bang:
Unconditional love for the 240 I guess
-fp
-
This thread is making me re think my Leica wants, and instead get an R-D1.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Do what suits you, but having had R-D1, M9, and M-P, I'd never pick the Epson over any of the Leicas.
G
-fp
-
Thinking the R-D1 would be a cheap way in until I can get a decent Leica.
astro8
Well-known
Yes and why not? I don't see much of a downside. You may find like I and many others do, that the R-D1 is a good fit.
raid
Dad Photographer
I find the M 4/3 cameras overall a great bargain. I use the (older) Olympus E-P2 and E-PL1 12MP cameras with IS and 10X magnified focusing aid. I am going to look for the habitat of some local crabs at Pensacola Beach today. I need some photos of crabs in their habitat for my daughter's science project. We received some tips from a Professor where to find them, and she told us that we would need sneakers and shorts and that we may have to wade ... etc. I will not take my M8 or M9 there. My iPhone is useful then, and my two M 4/3 will provide me with a 15mm and a 400mm view as specialized cameras for today's walk. The E-PL1 cost me $150 new and with warranty from Tamarkin. This is a great deal.
rbelyell
Well-known
well, since youve been given permission to 'do what suits you', may as well give this god-awful idea a try. but be careful, you may end up like alot of us idiots who actually enjoy the rd1 better than the leica alternatives.
Alberti
Well-known
For simplicity M8. It is a lovely camera, maybe ought to buy one again for my wife - - -
- I just bought an secondhand MM for all the reasons mentioned. And I expect its value to remain high.
You are right. Though in some aspects the X100 is nice, it always under-delivers in quality and my wife still has trouble with her "automatic focus X100" - even though the viewer is nice & bright - her main reason to buy it.
- I just bought an secondhand MM for all the reasons mentioned. And I expect its value to remain high.
You are right. Though in some aspects the X100 is nice, it always under-delivers in quality and my wife still has trouble with her "automatic focus X100" - even though the viewer is nice & bright - her main reason to buy it.