Maiku
Maiku
GeorgeH wrote:
"What would you do, re-draw the map of the world?"
Well, that is exactly what the British and French did in the immediate aftermath of the First World War.
They literally drew lines in the sands without a second thought to national, religious or racial concerns.
Done with little or no consultation with the Arabs, Palestinians, Kurds etc.
Iraq, Jordan and Palestine British sphere of influence. Lebanon and Syria the French sphere of influence.
"What would you do, re-draw the map of the world?"
Well, that is exactly what the British and French did in the immediate aftermath of the First World War.
They literally drew lines in the sands without a second thought to national, religious or racial concerns.
Done with little or no consultation with the Arabs, Palestinians, Kurds etc.
Iraq, Jordan and Palestine British sphere of influence. Lebanon and Syria the French sphere of influence.
Maiku
Maiku
No axe to grind.
Just setting history straight.
Just setting history straight.
lukitas
second hand noob
Mind your own grinding. Your axe seems rather large.
Michael Markey
Veteran
I fear that your focus is misdirected . Most of the opposition has come from the former communist block countries and indeed migrants are more likely to be attacked in the former east Germany rather than anywhere else.
"Europe" has consistently lacked a cohesive foreign policy in respect to these areas of conflict preferring to sit on its hands and wait for the United States to do something.
It is now the victim of its own botched mis judgements and is looking around for someone to blame.
lukitas
second hand noob
There is a reason people take these incredibly difficult, dangerous ways to get to Europe.
It would be much easier and cheaper just to get an airplane ticket. Instead, they pay three or more times the price of that ticket to risk drowning in the mediterranean. Why?
Because Europe has devolved the task of deciding who is a refugee to the airline operators. Carriers can be held liable for the repatriation of anyone who might not be a bona fide refugee. It's no good buying a ticket, they won't let you on the plane, without full paperwork.
That is why people allow themselves to be stacked like sardines in rickety boats : once you are in, you can apply for refugee status, but first you have to get in. But the Airlines won't let you fly, because Europe doesn't allow them to do so.
And that is only one reason why Europe is complicit in this crisis.
cheers
It would be much easier and cheaper just to get an airplane ticket. Instead, they pay three or more times the price of that ticket to risk drowning in the mediterranean. Why?
Because Europe has devolved the task of deciding who is a refugee to the airline operators. Carriers can be held liable for the repatriation of anyone who might not be a bona fide refugee. It's no good buying a ticket, they won't let you on the plane, without full paperwork.
That is why people allow themselves to be stacked like sardines in rickety boats : once you are in, you can apply for refugee status, but first you have to get in. But the Airlines won't let you fly, because Europe doesn't allow them to do so.
And that is only one reason why Europe is complicit in this crisis.
cheers
lukitas
second hand noob
I dont understand. What has Brussels got to do with kalashnikovs? You might find a chocolate gun though. Or a novelty lighter.
Good luck out there. Sorry I'm not among them.
lukitas
second hand noob
Yeah, you can find them at knock-out prices on the weekly market. And then we get drunk, dance in the streets and shoot off our guns. Glaziers are doing blazing business.
lukitas
second hand noob
What am I still doing here? George, you're making me shiver! All of a sudden I'm surrounded by kalashnikov wielding devils. Aargh, I'm requesting refugee status ! Wait, but, the refugees are trying to get here. Idiots. Don't they know its straight out of the frying pan, into the fire?
Please keep me updated on the situation in Brussels, I'd like to know what kind of armour to choose next time I get milk.
Aristophanes
Well-known
lukitas
second hand noob
Me, brave? I wish. I don't have to be brave, Belgium is a reasonably civilised place. Yes, there are criminals. Small fry : muggers, robbers, pimps and dealers. And there are a few extremists. Most of those prefer a brown shirt over a brown skin. And if you're ready to socialise with very scary people, you may find a way to obtain weapons. And most of those people are being watched. All this is true for most civilised countries.
Belgians make sandwiches for the kids to take to school, play cards on the train to work, drink beer and cheer soccer on tv. We're worried about our pensions, but when the town centre is made car-free, we dance in the streets. Our politicians are making severe noises about not giving the refugees a free ride, and not being able to house them, and that they'll have to work for their sustenance. Meanwhile, belgians are organising food raffles, finding beds and roofs for the families coming in.
We don't worry about kalashnikovs too much though. Not many around.
The aunt living in Canada said the family fled from Kobane, Syria to Turkey some time after ISIS attacked and laid siege to the city. That siege lasted six months starting about a year ago and left the city in ruins. Nothing to return to.
Because the Gulf States won't let them in.
kuuan
loves old lenses
..if reaching via airplane only was the only impossible way to reach Europe: Syrians have the right to apply for the status of a refuge inside Europe, however it is illegal for them to travel Europe! - For that they would need a EU visa in their passport, something a refugee won't have.
A deceitful double deal, a cynic reality that forces the refugees into costly, inhuman and deadly dangers
oltimer
Well-known
I tend to agree with George. How is it possible to know who is a refugee and a ISIS migrant?. For sure ISIS members are in there.
nongfuspring
Well-known
Actually this is extremely unlikely. As part of ISIS ideology they believe the key battle they will face will be located in Dabiq (a town in Syria, near Turkey) as first stage of the apocalypse. ISIS wants to expand their geographic territory, but otherwise they are literally waiting for the a Western coalition to engage them in Dabiq which is why international ISIS supporters are only moving to Syria rather than from it. It's a mistake to think that ISIS is at all like Al Queda - they're a medieval-style military faction led by a Caliphate, technically not a terrorist organisation. Aside from recruitment they don't operate internationally. For more information: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/markaz/posts/2014/10/03-isis-apocalyptic-showdown-syria-mccants
The Syrian refugees here are people not so different from us in first world countries. Up until recently Syria was a country that enjoyed high levels of education, a well developed economy, and economic/political integration internationally. To a country in the right situation, an influx of skilled pre-educated workers is an economic boon, not a burden. Ironically Hungary as an economically stilted nation with low general education levels would do well to accept them strategically, but it seems the government are too racist to do so.
In any case, I think this topic has drifted far off course and any discussion amid such deep seated emotions is pointless.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Still, it would have been nice to discuss the impact, merits and results of the image here, instead of world politics. It's out of whack, I'm reading the political analysis on a photography forum and the photographic discourse on Facebook
dave lackey
Veteran
Still, it would have been nice to discuss the impact, merits and results of the image here, instead of world politics. It's out of whack, I'm reading the political analysis on a photography forum and the photographic discourse on Facebook
Yes... ^THIS!^
Michael Markey
Veteran
Very little I would imagine apart from the initial great sadness.
For months now we`ve been subjected to images showing the most cruel and appalling violence committed by the Islamic State and very little has been done about it.
nongfuspring
Well-known
Well, if we're talking odds, here are the odds of a Western European being killed in a terrorist attack of any sort: 1:25,000,000.
In Western Europe you're more likely to be killed by a right wing extremist organisation terrorist attack than by Muslim extremists. Ironically the worst terror attack in Europe's recent history was the Brevik massacre which was driven by anti-muslim xenophobia/racism.
In the U.S. (since you're American) in the year of the Boston bombing, that year you were more likely to be killed by a child of under 3 wielding a handgun than by terrorists. You were more likely to be killed by your own furniture than by terrorists.
Will immigration increase the risk of terrorism? Possibly, but even if it went up by a factor of ten you'd still be more than twice as likely to be killed by a lighting strike.
But please, don't let statistics interrupt your xenophobic hysteria. For me, I'll continue to take my chances amongst my Muslim neighbours.