luuca
Well-known
New full frame Pixii... but man... 4000€? Really?
pixii.fr
Pixii - Digital rangefinder camera
Pixii is a modern digital rangefinder camera made in France. Pixii features a high-precision rangefinder, interactive optical viewfinder, native smartphone connectivity and Leica-M compatible lens mount. Its sensor delivers a remarkable image quality, outperforming all comparable rangefinders on...
pixii.fr
olakiril
Well-known
I applaud their effort, but personally I am more bumped by the lack of a mechanical shutter at that price point.
Especially if it uses the same sensor as S9/S5ii which has a readout speed of ~1/20. I do hope the went with the partially stacked sensor that is in the Z6iii with a readout speed of 1/69. I am afraid that it should have been in their promotional text, and it isn't...
Especially if it uses the same sensor as S9/S5ii which has a readout speed of ~1/20. I do hope the went with the partially stacked sensor that is in the Z6iii with a readout speed of 1/69. I am afraid that it should have been in their promotional text, and it isn't...
sojournerphoto
Veteran
New full frame Pixii... but man... 4000€? Really?
Pixii - Digital rangefinder camera
Pixii is a modern digital rangefinder camera made in France. Pixii features a high-precision rangefinder, interactive optical viewfinder, native smartphone connectivity and Leica-M compatible lens mount. Its sensor delivers a remarkable image quality, outperforming all comparable rangefinders on...
Low production numbers probably mean this is a quite reasonable price. Certainly, significantly lower than an M11, albeit with limitations in comparison.
luuca
Well-known
yes, but a mint M10 can be found at that price and I don't know why one would choose this new pixiie over the M10
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Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
Another Pixii model means another Pixii thread where 90% of the people say "this isn't what I'm looking for" and a few people lavish rhapsodical praise on the thing while chiding the critics.
Personally, seeing Pixii make the jump to full frame solves one of the problems I had with the original model (why have a crop sensor and a lens mount where the lenses are all designed for "full frame"? Never made sense to me...), but introduces another one (the much higher price).
The other two issues (the lack of a mechanical shutter - a dealbreaker for sports photography - and the lack of SD card slots) I might have been able to overlook if this full frame model was still at the price of the first Pixii. I definitely can't at this price.
However, I will say this: the fact they're releasing a new model (and a full frame one, at that) should be read as a good signal. They obviously did well enough with the APS-C version to keep going, and that's no small feat in today's market.
Personally, seeing Pixii make the jump to full frame solves one of the problems I had with the original model (why have a crop sensor and a lens mount where the lenses are all designed for "full frame"? Never made sense to me...), but introduces another one (the much higher price).
The other two issues (the lack of a mechanical shutter - a dealbreaker for sports photography - and the lack of SD card slots) I might have been able to overlook if this full frame model was still at the price of the first Pixii. I definitely can't at this price.
However, I will say this: the fact they're releasing a new model (and a full frame one, at that) should be read as a good signal. They obviously did well enough with the APS-C version to keep going, and that's no small feat in today's market.
olakiril
Well-known
Let's also not forget that the 4000 euros is without VAT. In my country it that would bring the price to 5000 euros.
I also do hope they keep going though.
shawn
Veteran
Wonder if they are going to offer hardware upgrades to full frame? If so that would be quite the first.
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
Well, it has an EVF, but compares otherwise to the new LUMIX S9 with electronic shutter only, cold shoe only. The S9 has better video codecs, and costs $1500 with a lens. This is making the S9 look to be a bargain! /s
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Hmm. Lessee: My 64G Pixii cost me US$3282 in 2022. Dollar and Euro are pretty close nowadays, so that's a smidge over €3000. The new model is €4000 ... or roughly 25% more. That does not seem out of line with other manufacturers' product lines where they offer both APS-C and a FF sensor models. The Pixii cameras are expensive, for sure, but given the limited, niche market audience they are addressing, and their own limited production capabilities, it's not like they're trying to rape the buyers.
... And the comparison between the new price of one model camera against the used price of a different camera ... Well, someone had to pay the full price of that used camera at some point, or it wouldn't be there for you to prefer. Manufacturers only make money by selling NEW products, generally. So someone has to pay the new camera price or the manufacturer won't be in business for very long.
I didn't keep my early 2022 Pixii ... It had issues that I found overwhelmed its usefulness to me (not the fact of it having only an eshutter at all, curiously ... mostly haptics in use and power consumption, much of which has been improved dramatically with later revisions of the APS-C model and will likely be similarly improved on this new FF model). I bought a new Leica M10 Monochrom when I returned the Pixii, which drained my piggy bank of nearly three times the price. But I don't regret it one bit: the M10-M is probably the best new camera I've ever owned and was/is worth every penny of that absurd price.
Price is not a very good criteria for whether a camera is a good value, taken by itself. Neither is APS-C vs FF format, for that matter. The value comes from use: if the new Pixii FF model proves to be a useful camera that incites its owner to make more and better photographs, then I'll call it a good value.
Bravo, Pixii! I hope the new model lives up to its promise and inspires a lot of photographers who cannot afford a NEW M11 for whom the rangefinder camera experience is key.
I, however, am out of the market: I have my M10-M, and the second-hand M10-R that I acquired because I liked the M10-M so much and wanted a color capable version of. I doubt I can utilize more than some small percentage of either of these' capabilities, so a new Pixii or M11 or whatever isn't in the cards. I'd be better off putting my energy and time into using them more, and my money into travel (and film for my film cameras...).
G
luuca
Well-known
I understand your point of view.
I also own a M10r and it takes dust on the shelf for most part the time... everytime I decide to go out with it, my film M bodies look at me in that particular way... and I can't resist.
I also own a M10r and it takes dust on the shelf for most part the time... everytime I decide to go out with it, my film M bodies look at me in that particular way... and I can't resist.
panatomic
Member
Comparing the price of a camera when it’s new with the price of cameras that are used doesn’t make a lot of sense. Just wait until you can get a used Pixii Max for a lower price.
Leicarumors states that existing owners can upgrade to the new sensor.
1/60th second was the Sync speed of most horizontal travel focal plane shutters.
1/60th second was the Sync speed of most horizontal travel focal plane shutters.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
This camera is much more advanced than M10.
And uses very common battery, 55 euro.
155 euro per one, non common battery? No, thank you.
And why you are conparing new, up to date camera with second hand one?
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Once again the cat is amongst the pigeons. Pixii seems to almost always excite controversy.
Yes, there is an upgrade path. Yes, I will be in it passing up the A2572+ upgrade I have scheduled. My concern is battery life. The A2572 eats batteries. Is this a problem? Not really. They all last for more than 36 exposures and that 36 exposure film roll was never a problem.
My most grinding complaint was about the shutter. It is electronic and the shutter button is a simple push switch. The "click" sound is made by the camera and is wimpy. The last firmware release has a volume control to turn up the shutter volume. Great!
I like the color and IQ. I have adjusted the color intensity down a notch by changing the in-camera color profile. Away from Kodachrome toward Agfachrome, which was my favored slide film from ~'63. Even Costco sold it under their Kirkland name.
From a philosophical point of view, David Barth and Pixii have truly pulled a rabbit out of a hat. They started with a small sensor and worked their way up to the current 26MP APS-C and now the 24MP in the Max. Think about what these folks have done. It is almost quixotic madness, tilting against the windmills in Wetzlar. Pixii has been assailed for many things they were doing "wrong" but they have been persisted and are still afloat and seem to be growing.
FWIW, the images getting the most hits on my Flickr account are Pixii/J8 shots. An upstart French camera company doing so many things "wrong" and an FSU KMZ '57 Jupiter 8 lens, a copy of the CZJ Sonnar 5cm f/2.0. This one is nice, very nice. Here's the Flickr link. You may think the photos are crap. My point is that they seem the most popular of the trash I have posted. Flickr Login OK, the link does not work. Flickr is so weird sometimes. I have to find another storage board.
OK, figured outhow to do it and will stay with Flickr, LOL. Most popular FF photo:
Yes, there is an upgrade path. Yes, I will be in it passing up the A2572+ upgrade I have scheduled. My concern is battery life. The A2572 eats batteries. Is this a problem? Not really. They all last for more than 36 exposures and that 36 exposure film roll was never a problem.
My most grinding complaint was about the shutter. It is electronic and the shutter button is a simple push switch. The "click" sound is made by the camera and is wimpy. The last firmware release has a volume control to turn up the shutter volume. Great!
I like the color and IQ. I have adjusted the color intensity down a notch by changing the in-camera color profile. Away from Kodachrome toward Agfachrome, which was my favored slide film from ~'63. Even Costco sold it under their Kirkland name.
From a philosophical point of view, David Barth and Pixii have truly pulled a rabbit out of a hat. They started with a small sensor and worked their way up to the current 26MP APS-C and now the 24MP in the Max. Think about what these folks have done. It is almost quixotic madness, tilting against the windmills in Wetzlar. Pixii has been assailed for many things they were doing "wrong" but they have been persisted and are still afloat and seem to be growing.
FWIW, the images getting the most hits on my Flickr account are Pixii/J8 shots. An upstart French camera company doing so many things "wrong" and an FSU KMZ '57 Jupiter 8 lens, a copy of the CZJ Sonnar 5cm f/2.0. This one is nice, very nice. Here's the Flickr link. You may think the photos are crap. My point is that they seem the most popular of the trash I have posted. Flickr Login OK, the link does not work. Flickr is so weird sometimes. I have to find another storage board.
OK, figured outhow to do it and will stay with Flickr, LOL. Most popular FF photo:
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boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I have not seen this interesting interview with David Barth before. I am posting it here so folks can get his motivation and philosophy and also a feel for the man.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
The "lens" is dirt cheap, one and only f8 aperture, manual focusing lens. It is worth of 50 USD max.
"It"... Not sure which it. Specifications (Model A3410) No EVF in specs.
The only commonity between Pixii MAx and S9 I see is in cuteness.
cboy
Well-known
They should of just called it the PIXII M. Anyway any competition is good against the FF rangefinder hegemony of Leica. I love my Leica but the current price point makes it non accessible to many. The high entry point shouldn't be a barrier to FF rangefinder or resort to a flood of second hand me downs.
I just hope the readout speed is fast to keep users happy. Great move for PIXII. Happy days. Can't wait for reviews
I just hope the readout speed is fast to keep users happy. Great move for PIXII. Happy days. Can't wait for reviews
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
The S9 is an interchangeable lens camera, using the L-mount, with lenses from Leica, Panasonic and Sigma, as well as numerous third-party manufacturers. That F8 pancake lens isn’t the only option. In fact, some people are using the S9 with M-mount lenses via an adapter and finding it very nice.The "lens" is dirt cheap, one and only f8 aperture, manual focusing lens. It is worth of 50 USD max.
"It"... Not sure which it. Specifications (Model A3410) No EVF in specs.
The only commonity between Pixii MAx and S9 I see is in cuteness.
gzisis69
Established
Great news but awfull price. When the cheapest m leica costs 2500 used(m9 with new sensor) the price it should be placed was 2000 so someone had the dilemma new camera or used leica. But keep going every competition is good
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Agreed. But everything should be cheaper or we should have much bigger paychecks.