raid
Dad Photographer
I watched that video last weekend, Cal. His discussions made sense to me.
I also view the SL or SL2 for use as a multi-platform. There are some limitations, such as non-retrofocus design lenses or the Hologon 16/8.
I also view the SL or SL2 for use as a multi-platform. There are some limitations, such as non-retrofocus design lenses or the Hologon 16/8.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Raid,
No doubt that for manual focusing wides a rangefinder can't be replaced. On the SL longer lenses are easiest to focus due to magnification and the focus snap enhancement. Not so different than comparing a rangefinder and a SLR.
I will add though for shallow DOF though like Noct-Nikkor wide open, Noctilux, or 75 Lux that it is probable that you would have a higher hit ratio with a SL over a rangefinder when shooting wide open.
I do agree with Huss that rangefinders can't be replaced. I own 4 film Leica M-bodies, a MM, and a LTM.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
At the Leica Store in SoHo on Thursday December 19 will be a SL2 Launching Event that includes a model shooting event, and artist talk, and a reception/party.
RSVP required. Other events like this in other Leica Stores.
My friend Jeff at Sunday's NYC Meet-Up reported that he borrowed a Q2 from the Leica booth and was impressed at the resolution of some road signs in Madhattan that were zoomed in on that were shot from Dumbo in Brooklyn during Photoville. 47 MP sensor shot with a wide (28mm FOV).
Jeff said it crushes a "Q" and that the new sensor should really start to exploit the native glass more fully. Remember I was told that the lens on the "Q" is "future Proofed" to 80 MP.
Cal
RSVP required. Other events like this in other Leica Stores.
My friend Jeff at Sunday's NYC Meet-Up reported that he borrowed a Q2 from the Leica booth and was impressed at the resolution of some road signs in Madhattan that were zoomed in on that were shot from Dumbo in Brooklyn during Photoville. 47 MP sensor shot with a wide (28mm FOV).
Jeff said it crushes a "Q" and that the new sensor should really start to exploit the native glass more fully. Remember I was told that the lens on the "Q" is "future Proofed" to 80 MP.
Cal
Huss
Mentor
Just watched it. He mentions that the SL and SL2 has micro lenses to work better with M glass. And yet in tests with M normal to wides, it has been documented that M cameras work better.
Look up Sean Reid's tests.
So do micro lenses actually exist on SLs? Think about it, they are a physical non moveable item designed to accommodate the offset angle from M glass which is much closer to the sensor than SLR etc lenses. How would a sensor optimized for rangefinder lenses and their much closer glass to sensor distance work well with native lenses with a much greater lens to sensor distance?
Leica has designed the new SL lenses to work perfectly with the SLs. Putting micro lenses on the sensor would hinder that so why would they handicap their SL lens performance just so people can adapt it when they can just use an M body?
I'm wondering if an independent source has actually examined the sensor on the SL (and eventually the SL2) to see if it does has micro lenses. Otherwise it is just a marketing spin.
Has Kolari looked at it?
Huss
Mentor
Well Leica did lie about the sensors on the M9 series claiming there was nothing wrong with them. While they knew this was not the case.
So there's that.
oldwino
Well-known
Yeah, the SL lenses would have to be designed with the micro lenses in mind, which would probably mean that the lenses would not perform well on other L alliance cameras, which do not have the micro lenses, such as the Panasonic. And I can't imagine that Leica would like to see reports on how "Leica lenses suck on my S1R", etc. They have a certain reputation to uphold.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Huss,
Thanks for the response.
What you say makes sense. Optics involves precision and being precise so optimization on a system level makes sense.
The M-lenses offer the best performance when on a M-body I accept. Conversely and on a systems level the "L" lenses are like the M-lenses mentioned above, in that the L-lenses are optimized for use on a L-body, then add in profiles for even further optimum corrections.
Makes sense on a system level stay within the system for the optimum results.
I must say I own a lot of old retro single coated glass that I use for B&W films, and these lenses display character and artifacts that I don't appreciate with digital, but my Noct-Nikkor, my 50 Lux-R "E60," and my 28 Cron V.1 are all great lenses for shooting digital and I don't see a suffering of IQ.
On December 19th is the SL2 Launch at the Leica Store in SoHo. Pretty much I'll be taking off from work because it is an all day event. I'll have the opportunity to see how these above lenses work on the SL2. I'll also have my native 50 Lux and APO 35 Cron on hand.
It will be interesting...
So the M-system is mature and developed.
Meanwhile the native L-glass is perhaps "future proofed" out to maybe 3-4 generations, and of course the "L" mount is less restricted than the M-mount, and design constraints to enforce compactness do not apply.
I suspect these off-platform non native glass that work so well mentioned above on my SL might bare some weakness that I might detect on the SL2.
Cal
Huss
Mentor
Either way the SL2 looks fantastic and I much prefer its minimal control and menu layout over the Panasonic or pretty much anyone else's offerings.
The evf is now even higher rez but I wonder if we will soon be at the point that we can no longer tell much difference from a usability POV.
The evf is now even higher rez but I wonder if we will soon be at the point that we can no longer tell much difference from a usability POV.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Huss,
I own a CL and I love the controls and layout. So simple and uncluttered. From others they also compare the SL2 controls to the CL.
One reviewer in a Leica promotion says the EVF surpasses an optical VF'er.
I have to get past all the hype. I'm sure like any camera there will be the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I found that I could get away with only owning the one OEM battery with the SL, but the SL2 reveals that it is a power hog. Looks likely at least two batteries required for a days worth of shooting. Also $250.00 for a battery. Ouch.
My SL was a bit of a hand warmer due to power consumption. I wonder about now the body does not have so much metal exposed, and rubber I know is an insulator. Not getting too far ahead of myself, but I guess I get an opportunity to see. I'll add an edit and post the SL2 release date for you in L.A. so you can RSVP if you want. Costs nothing.
I also wonder if the AF will be speedier on my native lenses. My 50 Lux renders beautifully, the AF is deadly accurate and not vauge, but like in the reports and reviews it is slow. The zooms focus faster, and the APO Cron is downright speedy already on my SL. Will the Maestro 3 processor speed up my AF?
My hope is that the 50 Lux speeds up, this way I can really exploit the F1.4 and IBIS. Right now my photography is at a turning point. The past 3 years I have been basically working for my gal who has done well as a fashion blogger. She quit her day-job, retired and is busier than ever. Nearly 700k followers, is a Go-Daddy girl (the commercial is still running), and you might have seen her billboarded in L.A.
I did mucho B&W work documenting a disappearing NYC so that when I'm forced to leave New York I have a sense of home to take with me. Know that I'm a gentrifier who somehow became an ethnographer. This body of work that began in 2007 with the Housing Crisis is now kinda played out and now I have an archive of sorts that will take the rest of my life to sort out. About half of this work just remains negatives (135 and 120).
For me it is timely that the SL2 got released now and that it has IBIS to exploit. NYC at night will be my new obsession. I was deeply impressed with the 3 1/2 stop IS built into the 24-90 zoom that Leica lent me for 3 weeks to cover NYC Fashion week about 3 years ago. The in lens IS really was crazy.
5 1/2 stops in body with the SL2 is a dream come true, and I already own the fast primes... I suspect that with the 47 MP that I'm not so sure the non native glass I love will be as great on the SL2 as they are on the SL. We raised the bar of sorts.
BTW I'm good at handheld low light. Now it seems I'll have a deadly weapon. The native L-glass has yet to be fully exploited...
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Huss,
11/24 Leica Store L.A. A RSVP is required. PM me and I'll forward you the link.
Itinerary:
11:00-11:20 AM Photowalk Check-In
11:30-12:30 PM Guided Photowalk with SL2 on loan.*
3:00-6:00 PM Pro Discovery with on site model.
6:30-7:30 PM Artist Talk and presentation.
7:30-9:00 PM Reception and hands on demo.
* Camera loans for Photowalk are offered on a first come first serve basis. Valid ID, Credit Card, and SD Card required.
Cal
11/24 Leica Store L.A. A RSVP is required. PM me and I'll forward you the link.
Itinerary:
11:00-11:20 AM Photowalk Check-In
11:30-12:30 PM Guided Photowalk with SL2 on loan.*
3:00-6:00 PM Pro Discovery with on site model.
6:30-7:30 PM Artist Talk and presentation.
7:30-9:00 PM Reception and hands on demo.
* Camera loans for Photowalk are offered on a first come first serve basis. Valid ID, Credit Card, and SD Card required.
Cal
raid
Dad Photographer
It seems that the SL2 is for the future oriented photographer while the M10 is for the RF traditional photographer. The rest are "minor details" 
raid
Dad Photographer
I would really benefit so much from having an SL or SL2 for a day or part of a day. Else, I am not ready to buy any camera soon.
Pensacola is too small of a city to have SL2 cameras being introduced here. This is life. We have white sand beaches but no Leica Store. :bang:
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
It seems that the SL2 is for the future oriented photographer while the M0 is for the RF traditional photographer. The rest are "minor details"
Raid,
I'm a CF. I thought long and hard about spending this kinda money.
Had to suffer shooting fashion with the limitations of B&W since the MM was my only digital camera. Funny thing is that because my gal's fashion blog was all in B&W it stood out and quickly gained traction 5 years ago.
Pretty much I learned a profound lesson. If you want to stand out, don't do what everyone else is doing.
When I got the SL I decided to hold out for the 50 Lux, and avoided buying the 24-90 zoom. Had to wait over two years due to Leica delays, then there was the painful waiting list...
The APO 35 Cron was easier.
At this point I can do lots of shooting with just my wide and a normal. In fact I'll likely rig the SL with my APO 35 Cron, and a SL2 with the 50 Lux.
I hope this helps. What I'm suggesting is think about the longer timeline, what your own needs are, and what is best for you. Everyone is different.
Initially I was able to be patient because both the Noct-Nikkor and 50 Lux "E60" are not only remarkably good for digital, they are also inspiring lenses.
Also buy to keep, and try to spend your money only once. All my manual focus lenses still serve my film cameras very well.
Lastly Huss was really helpful in adding clarity: nothing like an M; and if you really want to exploit a system and go all the way then stay within the system for full exploitation.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Raid,
There is an event in Miami. Let me check the date. If you want to RSVP, PM me with your e-mail and I'll forward you the link.
Costs nothing. Pretty much a one day camera vacation for free. Nerd-out and live life obsessively. LOL.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Raid,
The date for Miami is Tuesday 12/17.
My geography of FLA is not so good, but I know in Pensacola there is a Navy pilot training base located there.
Cal
The date for Miami is Tuesday 12/17.
My geography of FLA is not so good, but I know in Pensacola there is a Navy pilot training base located there.
Cal
raid
Dad Photographer
Thank you for your feedback, Cal. It is very useful.
As for Pensacola and Miami, it would be a 12 hour car drive. By plane, it is faster!
raid
Dad Photographer
I may favor staying within the M system for full exploitation, as you have said.
Is there a Leica M 10-X planned?
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Raid,
Have one of those Navy Fly-Boys drop you off. BTW FLA is a big state.
I hitched hiked down 95 from New York in the 70"s. Only had $14.00 in my pocket, my friend Richie had $25.00. We stayed arround/near Fort Lauderdale.
What I learned on that trip is about freedom and being care free. I was 17 at the time.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Raid,
That is another can of worms. Do a search on "Leica Rumors." You'll get data mined and then forwarded all this camera smut pertaining to Leica.
Already mucho M rumors. Go see for yourself.
Cal
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
Looks like a possibility according to Leica Rumors. But the longer I use my M10-P (and M-P 240 before it) I'm thinking 24 megapixels is plenty for me (just about perfect, in fact).
Plus, I doubt anyone would get the full benefit out of a 40+ megapixel M camera without using a tripod.