Master Printers

I haven’t looked but Foma made some very nice but verr slow papers. Nothing wrong with slow as I like a print time com 15-30 seconds. Any longer gets tiring as I burn and dodge quite a lot.
This enevitably leads to the developer question. 20 years ago I had the pleasure to be member of a photo group where Wolfgang Moersch was kind of printing mentor. He developed and still develops an astonishing variety of both film and paper, ehm, developers. And this stuff makes a big, big difference. It is best to use slow papers for his stuff, as there are no other developers within the paper emulsion involved. For cold tones I prefer his "Blue", while for almost any kind of portrait his "Meritol" is my choice. Meritol creates a very pleasant brownish tint on warmtone papers and adds something like plasticity in many cases. And the recommended developing time for Meritol is 2 full minutes. The effect of the second minute is hardly visible in darkroom light, but there are more and more subtleties appearing by and by.
 
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Personally, I like slow working developers when printing. When the developer works too fast, development can become irregular. "Meritol" sounds like metol, that surely will be a component.
I use Eukobrom (Tetenal). It is sold in small bottles, so you don't have to worry about an entire bottle spoiling. When you use less, the developing time becomes longer but the gradation will be softer. It is important to use always fresh developer. Finding exactly the right exposures and developing times is the most time-consuming part of the workflow.

I only use one kind of paper, Ilford FBMG white glossy. White glossy paper is good when you want to scan the print. Toning prints is only useful for exhibitions and not when you want to use the print for scanning. For me printing is only a step towards the digital presentation. To get exactly the right gradation for analog prints there is no other way than split grade printing IMO.

Erik.
 
Erik and his contemplative compositions and his muted printed expression of them are a refreshing counterpoint to the shouting pictures that prevail. He is an ornament to RFF.
Doing something for so many decades and being consistent in terms of quality is a testament to Erik's work. In my eyes it is beyond criticism although I understand that we cannot all like the same things, especially when it comes to appreciating art.

I first heard of split-grade printing from Erik and followed his advice. The results were better than I hoped but printing is a very difficult art and I don't think I will ever master it. Here are a couple of prints made with split-grade printing.

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I first heard of split-grade printing from Erik and followed his advice. The results were better than I hoped but printing is a very difficult art and I don't think I will ever master it. Here are a couple of prints made with split-grade printing.

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You and Erik could collaborate: He split-delivers the blacks, you split-deliver the whites, and together you would mute all the RFF- critics.
 
Erik, this portrait is beautiful. I think you have the grey tones pretty much down and you have a white as well.

I've always admired your photography. You have a great eye for composition and framing and I love the geometry of your images. I've always made allowances for the printing, however. It is flatter than I like. And I also like detail which is often obscured in the dark tones and shadows. I've sorta put you in the same category as Roy DeCarava who printed very dark in many of his works, much darker than I really like but he was still making wonderful photographs. Not piling on but just pointing out how I feel about your photos displayed here.
 
HCB wasn’t a very good printer. I saw a couple of his own prints in a show at the Frist Center in Nashville a few years ago. They were pretty bad prints. Actually he was a pretty bad camera technician as well making his negs very difficult to print. In the Frist show it was noted that his negatives were often poorly exposed as well. He just had the eye for composition and timing.

Most really fine photographers that I’ve known or admired their work have done their own printing. There are exceptions as noted but many are excellent as photographers and at interpreting their own negatives.

One of the now retired photo professors at the university here was a printer for Walker Evans. He said Evans negatives were often terrible and difficult to print. He said Evans cropped by taking a pair of scissors to his negatives cutting out what he didn’t want printed.
This is key. Neither HCB or Evans cared to 'bring a print to life'. I think we 'll all agree that it wasn't for lack of attention in what they were doing or because they were so far behind the wisdom we dispense in here. They were just wedded to the idea of purely recording, as a means of maximally preserving the representational function of photography.

Anyone who has come across Erik's postings knows that his highest admiration is for HCB. I will agree with some posters here that his tone is sometimes didactic. But fair is fair. My understanding is that he split-grade prints so that whatever change is made on the photo is applied uniformly. Dodging and burning bring instead selective-area changes in the photo. Go full-throttle and you may turn day into night. I know that plenty of documentarians did apply selective editing/printing techniques in their prints (cue Smith printing black the eyes of the women that were looking at him in his Spanish Wake and bleaching new whites in the right place) but then many didn't. No need to bash Erik on the head with 'how ugly his prints are'; I don't think his purpose is to make Ansel Adams-like prints. If his purpose is not that, then he cannot have failed in not making them, right? The man said he likes dodging and burning in other photographers' prints after all.
 
I'm sorry if I said something wrong, but in all the years I've been visiting the Rangefinderforum, I've never had any problems and I haven't been approached as aggressively as I have been lately by a certain person. That spoiled my enjoyment here to a large extent.

That you do not like my prints is for me no problem, don't worry.

Erik.
I had stopped responding here until I saw Erik's post complaining of being "approached . . . aggressively". Now there is an outpouring of support for "poor Erik'
Poor Erik... When I read Erik's expositions on how he prints I never ever get the sense that he's advocating everyone do the same as him.

Please stop piling onto Erik in this lynchmob way. It's terrible to see.

I beg to differ. After Erik's complaint about being abused, I went through this entire thread to see if I had been unfair to him. Included below are all the relevant posts. He's been a very vociferous advocate of split grade printing, often deriding dodging and burning and by implication those of us who use that method.

What is apparent to me is that you, Erik, were never attacked personally by me or anyone else. Instead, after numerous inaccurate and false statements by you, Erik, denigrating dodging and burning, I made a series of posts offering my view and refuting your false claims. I also offered my view of the shortcomings of split grade printing as used by you Erik, namely loss of shadow detail and dull highlights.

Let me reiterate, no one made any personal attacks on you Erik. I'm genuinely sorry if you got your feelings hurt. But I don't think it's fair for you to continuously attack other people's method of printing, namely dodging and burning, and expect not to receive criticism of your own method.

I'm going to post my notes of the conversations immediately following this post, just to keep things clean.
 
Most of the posts in quotes are by Erik. Post numbers are included for easy reference. I've prefaced my responses with the word "Me" for mine.

#10 “By far the best thing of gelatin silver printing is the enormous shelf life of silver-gelatin prints compared to spray-painted digital prints. It is incomprehensible that so many people do not consider the shelf life of their photos important.”

#34 “Don't think I have anything against digital photography. It's good for internet use and the like - as long as you don't think digital photography is an "advancement". Many people do.”

#37 “Yes, but I only give a damn about artistic achievements made by people. Art that is made by a machine, leaves me cold. I can't help it.”

#39 “Yes, that is well known, a painting appears more beautiful if it gives the impression of being made with the greatest of ease, take Velasquez for example. But if something is made by a machine, it doesn't make any impression at all.”

#53 “… I do not like color photography, not on film and not digital. Color photography can be useful for advertising and can be instructive etcetera, but for me it is not an art. Digital b+w is in my eyes a kind of robot-art for people who don't want to take the trouble to learn something that is difficult or expensive and therefore settle for a product that is automatically generated and that in my eyes therefore is - as an art - uninteresting, kitsch.”

#78 “I make darkroom prints since 1967. From my work only RC paper has ever oxidized. "Carbon on cotton rag" sounds like East-Indian ink on handmade paper. Doesn't that suffer from handling, such as leafing through a box with prints?”

#84 “All inkjet prints I've seen are very vulnerable. The paper is thin and the image is like coating. If you keep them in a pile in a box and look at them often, they wear out. That does not happen with silver gelatin prints.”

#91 “If you want to make small prints this method [split grade printing] is handier than all the dodging and burning in the world. Nobody has hands that are small enough to dodge and burn on small prints. Saves paper too.”

#108 “Bell is typically a burn and dodge printer. Problem with that is that you can do it on only on large prints.”

#134 “I never dodge and burn, but I make split grade prints and then dodging and burning is not necessary. But this discussion was here before. Most people don't know what split grade printing is, btw. The big advantage of split grade printing is that you can easily make several exactly equal prints. Dodging and burning is fine, but but costs a lot of time and paper and therefore money.”


#137 me “For people who have some experience printing, dodging and burning can be quite economical. When I was doing it professionally it rarely took more than two sheets of paper, and often only one. Here's an example of Robin Bell printing a new negative using dodging and burning. His first print is decent, but he makes minor refinements on the second to achieve his finished print. It's almost exactly the way the other two photographers and I printed when I was working at the architectural/commercial photo firm many years ago, except I'd use a couple of L shaped pieces of black poster board for dodging and burning in addition just to using my hands as Robin is shown doing in this video. Opposing L shaped boards allowed for making even finer adjustments than hands alone.”

#139 “In the past there was no VC paper, so printers used their burn and dodge abilities. Now there is split grade printing wich is much more economical and much more effective. Moreover, in split grade printing one can burn and dodge as much as one wants. The problem, of course, is that burning and dodging is never exactly repeatable.”

#141 Me “The only way split grade printing is exactly repeatable without dodging and burning is if one is willing to accept gray highlights. I'm not.”

#143 Me “I feel bad contradicting so much of what you're saying, but you keep making statements that are just not true. The results from dodging and burning can be very repeatable -- that's one of the main reasons so many professional printers use it. But if you don't know how to do it correctly, of course the results would not be optimal.”

#146 Me “I don't want to attack Erik, but he's so defensive about his split printing technique that he can't seem to mention it without denigrating dodging and burning. I feel the need to speak up to set the record straight for those with less experience.”

#163 Me “I have nothing whatsoever against split grade printing. In fact, I've used it ever since I started printing professionally. But it's just another tool, like dodging and burning, to pull the most out of negatives. I object to it when it is used as a cure all to try to solve all printing problems, even in places where dodging and burning would be more appropriate, and when it is used in such a heavy handed manner that the highlights or lighter areas of the print become unnaturally dull and gray. I have to admit, my real pet peeve is snow printed that way so that it looks like a smooth gray carpet where all the nice little highlights that are there naturally are obliterated.”

#175 “Well, I was talking about printing the negative, not about changing the image. With split grade printing there are of course enough ways to dodge and burn if one likes to do that. You must not interpret my words in the wrong way.”

#186 “gelatin silver print (color skopar 50mm f2.5) leica mp
no burning and dodging” insert photo with black blob for person

#187 “Burning and dodging changes the mood in a photograph, but I take photographs of moods I like, so no burning and dodging for me.”

#188 me ”Regarding your claim that "burning and dodging changes the mood in a photograph", anything done to the print or negative can change the mood of the photograph, including split grade printing. So, what's your real point? I think this is just another of your not-so-thinly-veiled attacks on dodging and burning. It's really getting tiresome. Unless someone has almost superhuman perception, it's almost impossible to predict in advance precisely how a straight print of a scene will appear . Maybe you are one of those super humans who possess that ability, but the odds are against it. The reality is that you're using your split grade printing to"change the mood" of what you're getting straight out of the camera. If not, you'd be making straight prints with a single grade of paper. So, please, give your attacks on dodging and burning a rest. All your claims against it and in favor of split grade printing are seeming very hollow.”

#189 me referencing black blob photo “Is this really how you saw this scene live? Where's the guy's face? Or any detail in his coat? They are both just black blobs with absolutely NO detail. I guarantee that anyone standing in the position where you took the photo would have been able to see plenty of detail there including his expression and what he was holding in his hands. These may seem like small points for this particular photo, but they are just demonstrative of how you print all your photos. It takes skill to be able to retain detail in shadow areas and it can be done without destroying the natural feel of the scene. You often mention paintings but I don't recall any of the masters representing their subjects as detail-less black blobs.”

#190 “Invest in a good computerscreen. On my screen his face is clear, but unsharp because he is out of the dept of field. It is a dark man from Surinam, btw. Brusby, why do you put so much time and effort into criticizing my photos? Don't you have better things to do?“

#191 Me “I have a large, calibrated monitor and I stand by my statements about the lack of shadow detail. Luckily anyone reading this doesn't have to take my word or yours. They can judge for themselves.

Erik van Straten said:
Brusby, why do you put so much time and effort into criticizing my photos? Don't you have better things to do?

Me: If you'll look closely you'll see in every case I'm only responding to your posts when you make some bullshit statement denigrating dodging and burning. For months I didn't respond to your repeated posts but I've finally just gotten tired of seeing your biased and unsubstantiated crap go unchallenged. When you make claims that are obviously not true, I'm going to respond.

I don't know why you seem to want to wage a personal vendetta against dodging and burning. It's a widely accepted method used by many if not most pro printers. No one is forcing you to use it or even suggesting you do. But you seem to take some sort of perverse pleasure in deriding it at every opportunity. Why? The only thing that seems obvious to me is that you derive some feeling of superiority by employing what you think -- erroneously -- is a much better system than others are using.

I frankly don't care if you use dodging and burning or not. And I couldn't care less about whether your prints lack shadow detail or have gray highlights. But I do care about false claims and I'll continue to respond to them.“

#215 “I'm sorry if I said something wrong, but in all the years I've been visiting the Rangefinderforum, I've never had any problems and I haven't been approached as aggressively as I have been lately by a certain person. That spoiled my enjoyment here to a large extent.”
 
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Are we really so delicate that criticism of prints and techniques - in a forum that I always believed embraced and encouraged education? - now counts as "personal attacks"? Really?

I put a couple of my prints out there. Someone (maybe @brusby? I forget) said that ironically, he'd have used split grade techniques. I didn't take that as a personal slight and throw my toys out the pram.

After all, this thread is about "master printers". None of us here fall under that remit, as far as I'm aware (although some of us have studied under them and own prints by them). I came into this thread hoping to learn, and yes, I've been very critical of someone who's derailed the thread by dogmatically advocating for one particular process while deriding others, despite the examples of his work largely not being up to par, as far as I can tell. Forgive me if that ruins the kum-ba-yah vibe.

Without criticism, none of us improve. And yes, not everything we do is going to be perfect. Having someone point that out is far more valuable - to me at least! - than having people give me empty (and ill-founded) praise. I would hope most people here are mature enough to agree with that.
 
Wait...wait. Do you think my praise for Erik's composition and framing and placement of subjects in his photographs is ill-founded? Really? Have you actually looked closely there? I agree that his photos are too flat and dark for my taste but there's no denying his eye.

Anyway, you are correct. This is a thread about master printers. When I worked in the darkroom I made serviceable prints but certainly nothing in the way of great prints. Can't offer much on the subject.
 
Wait...wait. Do you think my praise for Erik's composition and framing and placement of subjects in his photographs is ill-founded? Really? Have you actually looked closely there? I agree that his photos are too flat and dark for my taste but there's no denying his eye.
For clarity, I've never once commented on the composition of any of Erik's shots, and I don't think I've seen anyone criticise him in that regard here. Hell, I'll agree, some of them are really well framed. But this whole thread is about printing, so I've only ever waded in on the subject of printing technique and exposure, as that's the issue at hand.
 
I actually think Erik is a very good and innovative photographer. He's certainly prolific and dedicated. On several occasions I've posted compliments of his photos, not just likes.

I originally thought his printing style was not in the same league as his abilities to see and compose. For that reason and because I've had experience producing commercial prints for a wide variety of final users from national periodicals to fine art publications and commercial users like architectural firms and large antique and jewelry auction houses, I thought I could offer some friendly advice that he might find helpful. So quite a while ago I tried to offer some very mild comments about print tones. But that turned out to be fruitless and I realized he wasn't interested in hearing any of it. So, I quit commenting for quite a while, until this thread, where I finally had enough of his bashing of dodging and burning and those of us who use that process.

I'm sad to see it all come to this. Probably doesn't mean much to Erik or his supporters, but my intentions were good although maybe my approach -- or maybe any approach -- was not right for him.

Nevertheless, I'd do it all again because with someone else it might have been of some benefit. And I thought that's what this forum was supposed to be about . . . helping each other.
 
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