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old 4 Weeks Ago  
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pixelvandal pixelvandal is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: gold coast, australia.
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PIXII New french M Mount digital rangefinder announced

https://pixii.fr

Saw this on the interwebs this morning.
Looks interesting. Could be a cheap compact Leica MD. Of sorts.... No LCD anyway.
Let's see if it actually gets made or becomes another konost project.

 




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old 4 Weeks Ago
peterm1
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The documentation says it will have 5.5m pixels. Which suggests to me it will be just a vanity toy for hipsters. Or according to Google translate "jouet de vanité pour hipsters"
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old 4 Weeks Ago
shawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post
The documentation says it will have 5.5m pixels. Which suggests to me it will be just a vanity toy for hipsters. Or according to Google translate "jouet de vanité pour hipsters"
Doesn't the documentation say it has 5.5um pixels? Assuming a full frame sensor that should be around 30 megapixels. Why would that make it a vanity toy?

Shawn
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old 4 Weeks Ago
Veggies
Registered User
intriguing
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old 4 Weeks Ago
mpaniagua
Registered User
5.5um pixels is the size of the pixel. So each pixel measures 5.5 micro meters

So no, it is not a 5.5 megapixels camera

Seems interesting.

Marcelo
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old 4 Weeks Ago
mpaniagua
Registered User
By the way, each micrometer is the 100th part of a millimeter

Marcelo
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old 4 Weeks Ago
peterm1
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
Doesn't the documentation say it has 5.5um pixels? Assuming a full frame sensor that should be around 30 megapixels. Why would that make it a vanity toy?

Shawn
Perhaps I should have put my glasses on
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old 4 Weeks Ago
splitimageview
Registered User
now THIS is indeed interesting...
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old 4 Weeks Ago
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
It is really interesting I agree. I gather the camera functions without a smart phone in its orbit if required?
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old 4 Weeks Ago
splitimageview
Registered User
I'm not assuming it's full-frame, seems if it were, they would have said so in the specs.

Uses a standard Sony battery...
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old 4 Weeks Ago
Rick Waldroup
Registered User
What about media? Will it be able to take some type memory card or is it just directly putting the images on your phone?
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old 4 Weeks Ago
splitimageview
Registered User
Says "8 or 32GB internal storage"

I would assume files could be batch uploaded to smartphone via wifi
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old 4 Weeks Ago
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Seems to me to be a gadget that neither the phone crowd will like nor the camera crowd.
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old 4 Weeks Ago
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
Gr8 4 sk8ers!

Chris
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old 4 Weeks Ago
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
Where does the film go?
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old 4 Weeks Ago
shawn
Registered User
From the specs this might not need a mechanical shutter as they specify that the sensor uses a global shutter.

Shawn
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old 4 Weeks Ago
presspass
filmshooter
Two major points missing - release date and price. Once we know that, we can move on to the more minor points like how we can get the images out and how good they will be. And even then, it's not a Leica so it really won't be worth buying.
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old 4 Weeks Ago
jsrockit
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
It is really interesting I agree. I gather the camera functions without a smart phone in its orbit if required?
It better...
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old 4 Weeks Ago
shawn
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
It better...
Yes, they state that in their press release.

Shawn
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old 4 Weeks Ago
B-9
Devin Bro
I like the idea of using a smartphone,

At least for me,

I have a Iphone 7+ and it’s larger than any camera lcd.

The added bonus being the cheaper editing apps that are now capable of handling raw strange enough this is definitely the future of cameras. Advanced communication with our personal computers we carry everywhere.

Hope it’s fairly priced and not some pipe dream scam to drum up page views.
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old 4 Weeks Ago
DougFord
on the good foot
Son of Konost

OK Ladies and Germs, place your bets.
I'm thinking this thing is actually going to be built.
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old 4 Weeks Ago
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
Global shutter!?
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old 4 Weeks Ago
Sumarongi
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
Global shutter!?
Well, they're FRENCH camera makers!

They once even made a «Fap Norca Pin-Up», see:

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x...%20Pin-Up.html
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old 4 Weeks Ago
Huss
Registered User
I like it. Looks like a digital Minolta CLE
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old 3 Weeks Ago
bmattock
Registered User
I wish it said what size the sensor is.
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old 3 Weeks Ago
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
Well, they're FRENCH camera makers!

They once even made a «Fap Norca Pin-Up», see:

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x...%20Pin-Up.html
What's being a French camera maker got to do with a global shutter? I don't follow...
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old 3 Weeks Ago
Beemermark
Registered User
I like the blond.

Sort of miss the point of the camera
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old 3 Weeks Ago
shawn
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
Global shutter!?
A global shutter is an electronic shutter where the entire sensor data is read out at the same instant.

Typically, electronic shutters (rolling shutters) scan over the sensor and it takes some amount of time which can lead to motion effects. For example this was shot with a Pentax Q using an adapted lens so it used an electronic rolling shutter which caused the distortion on the props.



You can get motion artifacts with mechanical shutters too (they scan over the film/sensor) but the effects are typically less noticeable compared to rolling electronic shutters. A global electronic shutter avoids these distortions.

If it does use a global electronic shutter in place of a mechanical shutter it will be totally silent with no chance of shutter shock as there are no moving parts for the shutter.

Shawn
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old 3 Weeks Ago
farlymac
PF McFarland
To say the least, it looks to be a well designed and constructed camera. More sophisticated than quite a few Kickstarter projects I've seen.

But just the fact it has the M mount means it could be a bit pricey. If they can keep it within $1,000 it might sell like hotcakes.

PF
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old 3 Weeks Ago
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
A global shutter is an electronic shutter where the entire sensor data is read out at the same instant.
I probably should have elaborated on that... I know what a global shutter is, I was just surprised to see it listed amongst the specs. I was under the impression global shutters were considered one of the big photographic engineering challenges, even for tech giants like Sony.
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old 3 Weeks Ago
Peter Wijninga
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Quote:
Seems to me to be a gadget that neither the phone crowd will like nor the camera crowd.
My thinking as well.
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old 3 Weeks Ago
Erik van Straten
Registered User
It is not a small camera, I guess the size is almost an M2. The base of the rangefinder is huge.


Erik.
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old 3 Weeks Ago
Dguebey
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
"Well, they're FRENCH camera makers!"

I know. Therein lies the rub, and it might be a big one. I like French cooking for sure, but engineering wise I remember Le Car too.
You never heard of "Imaging Valley" around Grenoble, in the French Alps! Here they build sensors for Leica M240 and some other gear.

See https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1332112
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old 3 Weeks Ago
Contarama
Registered User
If anyone could pull this off it would be the French....how much bebe?
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old 3 Weeks Ago
Jamie123
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
I'm not assuming it's full-frame, seems if it were, they would have said so in the specs.
Also, all the product shots seem to have a very wide lens attached (like 21mm) which would be an odd choice to use in an advert for a camera with a FF sensor.
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old 3 Weeks Ago
Paul T.
Registered User
Seems a really, really good concept to me.

I like the looks, very Braun.

But the crunch will be whether the screen-free camera costs more than a camera with screen. We've had it noted before that an RF mechanism, being mechanical, is one of the most expensive components of a camera and quite likely will cost more than a swanky screen made in China/
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old 3 Weeks Ago
Mcary
Registered User
"Framelines for standard prime lenses: 40/50mm, 28/35mm" So ideal for some but rather limiting for others.

[email protected] if anyone wants to email them to ask what size sensor it has.
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old 3 Weeks Ago
shawn
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
I probably should have elaborated on that... I know what a global shutter is, I was just surprised to see it listed amongst the specs. I was under the impression global shutters were considered one of the big photographic engineering challenges, even for tech giants like Sony.
I think they are difficult for sensor manufacturers, but once it is built into the sensor it is just a feature to use by the camera manufacturer. If it is using a global shutter that is an interesting way of reducing the mechanical complexity of the camera.

Shawn
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old 3 Weeks Ago
willie_901
Registered User
The Leica M10, M240, M9 pixel pitches are 6.0, 6.0 and 6.9 um respectively. The Nikon D-850 has a 4.35 um pixel pitch. The sensor area had better be 24 X 36 mm. Otherwise there's not much sense in using the M/LTM mount. Since, 24 X 36 mm sensors are common, so I'm optimistic.

Using the contemporary smart-phone user interface is obvious to everyone but the mainstream manufacturers.

For one thing menu set up and changes could be significantly improved. It would be trivial to save and switch between different sets of complete menu parameters. Second, the images would be integrated into all the way smartphone images are currently used. Third, manufacturing costs would be significantly lower. Building and supporting iOS and Android apps is much less resource intensive compared to in-camera firmware.

If the electronic shutter is truly a practical global shutter, then that is also a significant breakthrough.

I hope frame line support is easily expanded. I'm not very interested in medium-telephoto focal lengths with an optical RF.

Besides wondering if the camera will ever make it to market, I have two concerns. Will the rangefinder mechanism be useful, accurate and robust? Signal-to-noise ratio determines dynamic range and low-light performance. Assuming the sensor is 24 X 36 mm, will the SNR be at least as good as current APS-C sensors?
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old 3 Weeks Ago
c.poulton
Registered User
This concept does sound very appealing to me - it’s great not to have a screen on the camera and using an app which could be customised or perhaps even allow for 3rd party developers to build upon is quite exciting.

Although I’m a 100% film shooter, I am tempted by this concept. A simple no frills camera that takes my M glass and doesn’t have the distractions of so many digital cameras on the market today. This could be one of the most exciting camera releases in a long time.

Let’s see if it actually gets to market and ultimately what the cost will be - so far so good but the developers have a long way to go yet. I personally wish them luck.
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