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It's official, it is goin to be a digital Pen
Old 05-29-2009   #1
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It's official, it is goin to be a digital Pen

http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/prod...en50th/pen_ee/

Or at least the foreshadowing seems to imply this.
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Old 05-29-2009   #2
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Looks like it - remains to be seen what the feature set and specification is - but there's space on that 'teaser' for the next announcement on June 15th and then one more!
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Old 05-29-2009   #3
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If that new Pen comes with an optical viewfinder then it might just be my next camera purchase!
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Old 05-29-2009   #4
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Olympus PEN was my first camera. My dad liked it so much, he bought two of them.

I hope the new m4/3 is something similar to the PEN.

-Pat
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Old 05-29-2009   #5
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I guess I'm not sure why this is a surprise... Oly has foundered over the past several decades and will be gone soon. This attempt to associate thier digital products with with one of their few past successes is only a simple desperate stab at survival. Pen & OM will soon be a simple memory, fading quickly...

Sorry,

William
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Old 05-29-2009   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlewisiii View Post
I guess I'm not sure why this is a surprise... Oly has foundered over the past several decades and will be gone soon. This attempt to associate thier digital products with with one of their few past successes is only a simple desperate stab at survival. Pen & OM will soon be a simple memory, fading quickly...

Sorry,

William
Olympus is one of the most innovative camera companies out there, and they've never followed the canon/nikon crowd, they've always done their own thing. this extends back to the OM and pen days, when nikon and canon were busting out their mammoth pro SLRs and selling heaps of them, olympus was quietly selling and perfecting their smaller, easier to handle jewel like OMs and Pens.

Now, if there is one thing the digital market lacks 100 times over, it's a tiny camera with jewel like ergonomics and ultra high quality interchangeable lenses and a large sensor with high image quality. In the market at the moment you either buy a mammoth DSLR or a crappy quality point and shoot.

The m4/3rds digital pen will be exactly what a LOT of people are wanting.

Olympus is actually doing very well financially, and even though the canon nikon fans wouldn't let you know it, there are a lot of dedicated E-system users, including me (shared with the Canon EOS system). There are a lot reasons why the E-system is so good - the superb lenses, the superb ergonomics, the small size, the weather sealing, the leading technologies olympus puts on their cameras before anyone else (live view, dust shaker, IS, articulated LCD etc etc).

I'll eat my hat (not really, i don't even own a hat) if the new m4/3rds camera doesn't sell like hotcakes. I'm already saving to buy one, and I know a lot of people on this forum are.

Sorry,
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Old 05-29-2009   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wray View Post
If that new Pen comes with an optical viewfinder then it might just be my next camera purchase!
Exactly how do you propose the camera has an optical viewfinder without an optical mirror?

Part of the reason why they've been able to make the camera form so much smaller, yet keeping the big sensor, is because they've done away with the mirror which is the key "ingredient" in an optical VF.

So no, it won't have an OVF. I'd bet the first model they bring out has no VF at all, just the screen on the back and a centralized hot shoe for external VFs.
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Old 05-30-2009   #8
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A mirror is the key thing in an SLR. The original Pen models had a simple reverse telescope finder; positive element for an eyepiece, negative element in front. Simple direct view, no moving parts. The Pen F cameras were SLR's with a side swinging mirror and a porroflex instead of a pentaprism.
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Old 05-30-2009   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
Exactly how do you propose the camera has an optical viewfinder without an optical mirror?

Part of the reason why they've been able to make the camera form so much smaller, yet keeping the big sensor, is because they've done away with the mirror which is the key "ingredient" in an optical VF.
After 1,051 posts, I'm surprised think you are confusing a reflex view finder to a direct vision optical viewfinder. i.e. SLR vs rangefinder or scale focus camera.
( some OVF examples here http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/looking_forward.htm)

The hope of many here is than the olympus 4/3 will have either a direct vision OVF and a rear LCD or a EVF and rear LCD.

My dream camera would have a Leica M like optical viewfinder but with the ability to project bright lines onto this from a LCD.
It would obviously drop the optical rangefinder, but instead would have the ability to electronically shutter the optical input and project a live view EVF image and magnified EVF image.
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Old 05-30-2009   #10
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As long as they don't make it out of plastic, make it too 'new' looking (i.e. rounded plastic) and stick an optical VF on it (mounted to the hot plate, in other words a round piece of glass) it could be great.

But, it could have the typical shutter lag, beeps, portrait mode, landscape mode, dragon mode, alien holiday mode, poorly done touch screen controls like Sony do (only Apple are allowed touch screen controls) and crazy 85 thousand point keep everything in focus largest aperture is f900 nonsense on it. In which case I'd rather eat fdigital's hat with him.

When will somebody release a digital Leica, for less than 1000?
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Old 05-30-2009   #11
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Quote:
It's official, it is going to be a digital Pen
Except the Pen was a half-frame camera. Four-thirds (and M4/3) is really quarter-frame, i.e. 110 film equivalent, with all the professional quality we've come to expect from 110 film...

It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.
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Old 05-30-2009   #12
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I had a look at olympus's e system stuff the other day....I sure hope to hell this new m4/3 whatever it will be called wont be priced like the e system stuff! Awfully expensive over on the e system side...but then again a lot of those interesting expensive lenses are a good stop faster then their nikon/canon equivalents

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Old 05-30-2009   #13
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The only digital camera I own is the E1. For about 7 years now. I haven't felt the need to replace it as it is essentially a perfect DSLR, for me. This M4/3 is the first time I have been intrigued by what Oly does. Maybe my second digital cam ever.
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Old 05-30-2009   #14
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Originally Posted by majid View Post
It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.
We will see. At the end of the day it's the photographer making the photographs. So "image quality", outside of science labs, becomes a matter of finesse. I look forward to Oly's effort to make an enjoyable machine for me to take pictures with.
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Old 05-30-2009   #15
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The Pen-ultimate Olympus ?
I would love a little Digi-Pen which is simple and works well
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Old 05-30-2009   #16
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Maybe they'll do a 50th Anniversary limited addition with red sharkskin and limited to 1,000 units.

If they are making a mass-market camera, it will be another little expensive p&s with the Pen name on it. If they are aiming it at us, it will be another little very expensive p&s with the Pen name on it. But it's a great marketing idea.
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Old 05-30-2009   #17
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So they present a 50 anniv. half frame film camera? I don't actually see any specific relation to digital in their ad, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

Olympus hasn't stopped disappointing me in the digital age. Their 4/3 cameras are not really smaller than the rest, no compact fix focus lenses etc. I feel a lot of sympathy for the manufacturer, though. More than once I was really close to buy an OM2.

I really hope we won't see a m4/3 camera with just an LCD on the back.

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How's That Again?
Old 05-30-2009   #18
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How's That Again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by majid View Post
Except the Pen was a half-frame camera. Four-thirds (and M4/3) is really quarter-frame, i.e. 110 film equivalent, with all the professional quality we've come to expect from 110 film...

It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.
I think your comparison is a little unfair.
The G10 has a sensor of approximately 43 square mm.
The Micro 4/3rds sensor is about 225 square mm.
The Sigma Foveon sensor is 286 square mm or 27% larger.
The APS-C sensor is about 330 -370 square mm, depending on manufacturer.

So what actual basis do you have for making a statement implying that the m43 sensor is going to lack quality of image and be comparable to a 110 film format from 40 years ago? Current reviews of the G10 with its tiny sensor and >14 MP available rate it very highly.
You must have knowledge that is hidden from the rest of the photographic world.
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Old 05-30-2009   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenInTime View Post
After 1,051 posts, I'm surprised think you are confusing a reflex view finder to a direct vision optical viewfinder. i.e. SLR vs rangefinder or scale focus camera.

The hope of many here is than the olympus 4/3 will have either a direct vision OVF and a rear LCD or a EVF and rear LCD.
I'm fully aware that you don't need a mirror to have an optical viewfinder, but obviously you haven't yet considered the fact that this is an interchangeable lens camera that is meant to be a smaller replacement for a DSLR, and thus will have lenses ranging from 14mm equiv wide to 600mm equiv long, plus many variable focal length lenses (zooms).

Now, if you will, please explain to me how a fixed optical "direct vision" VF will be able to be used with both a 14mm lens and a 600mm lens, and all the focal lengths in between, let alone how it will be able to be used accurately.
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Old 05-30-2009   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larky View Post
But, it could have the typical shutter lag, beeps, portrait mode, landscape mode, dragon mode, alien holiday mode, poorly done touch screen controls like Sony do (only Apple are allowed touch screen controls) and crazy 85 thousand point keep everything in focus largest aperture is f900 nonsense on it. In which case I'd rather eat fdigital's hat with him.
FYI olympus have previously stated that there will be no touch screen controls on any of their cameras in the near future as it's a clumsy technology for photographic purchases.
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Old 05-30-2009   #21
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The Pen-ultimate Olympus ?
I lol'd. Thanks!
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Old 05-30-2009   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
please explain to me how a fixed optical "direct vision" VF will be able to be used with both a 14mm lens and a 600mm lens, and all the focal lengths in between, let alone how it will be able to be used accurately.
For normal 28mm....90mm lenses : direct OVF with projected lines as per Leica/Zeiss/Bessa (or EVF option) then EVF only for exotic focal lengths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenInTime View Post
would have the ability to electronically shutter the optical input and project a live view EVF image and magnified EVF image.
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Old 05-30-2009   #23
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You must have knowledge that is hidden from the rest of the photographic world.
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Old 05-30-2009   #24
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It might well be a digital Pen, but I don't know if you can say it will be a digital Pen based on the company's celebration of its film half frames.

Even so, it should be interesting to see the kind of camera they create.

I really hope that it has a viewfinder. I still thinking holding your camera at arm's length is moronic.
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Old 05-30-2009   #25
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Originally Posted by majid View Post
Except the Pen was a half-frame camera. Four-thirds (and M4/3) is really quarter-frame, i.e. 110 film equivalent, with all the professional quality we've come to expect from 110 film...

It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.
Sigma DP1/DP2 sensor size: 20.7mm x 13.8mm
Olympus Four Thirds sensor size: 18mm 13.5mm
Pentax/Samsung APS-c sensor size: 23.4mm x 15.6mm

OMG the sigma DP2 sensor is SOOOO much bigger than the 4/3rds one, a whole 2.7mm in length (due to the 3:2 ratio instead of 4/3rds 4:3 ratio) and a whopping .3mm in width.
An Olympus E-3 with it's 2 years old 4/3rds panasonic sensor would spank a sigma DP2 in low light. The foveon sensor can be woeful at high ISO - color splodges, casts and massive undersaturation.

From my E-3, iso 1250 + pushed almost a stop (iso 2000ish equiv) in post:


Now thats a 2 year old sensor from Olympus/panasonic, and the new M4/3rds or Digital Pen will have a new and improved version of it.

Why exactly do you think it wouldn't compete with the sigma or the Samsung (had to laugh at that one) in image quality? My Olympus E-systems DSLRs compete with my full frame Canon 5d, and in some areas surpass it.
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Old 05-30-2009   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenInTime View Post
For normal 28mm....90mm lenses : direct OVF with projected lines as per Leica/Zeiss/Bessa (or EVF option) then EVF only for exotic focal lengths.
You think they're going to incorporate fixed focal length projected lines into the VF of a modern compact digital camera aimed at people who want DSLR quality in a smaller/easier to use package for under $1000? I understand why you want it - so do I, but I fear there is no chance of it happening.
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Old 05-30-2009   #27
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I had a look at olympus's e system stuff the other day....I sure hope to hell this new m4/3 whatever it will be called wont be priced like the e system stuff! Awfully expensive over on the e system side...but then again a lot of those interesting expensive lenses are a good stop faster then their nikon/canon equivalents
You know Colin, if you are looking seriously at system DSLR's, and if you like compactness, old glass, and affordable new lenses, you should really look into Pentax.

As for the new m4/3, I'm delighted they've chosen to connect it to the Pen line. An optical VF would be terrific, or an improved EVF, and classic styling.
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Old 05-30-2009   #28
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Quote:
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I had a look at olympus's e system stuff the other day....I sure hope to hell this new m4/3 whatever it will be called wont be priced like the e system stuff! Awfully expensive over on the e system side...but then again a lot of those interesting expensive lenses are a good stop faster then their nikon/canon equivalents
The lenses are amazing. 14-35mm f2 + 35-100mm f2 are just phenominal.
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Old 05-30-2009   #29
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Quote:
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You think they're going to incorporate fixed focal length projected lines into the VF of a modern compact digital camera aimed at people who want DSLR quality in a smaller/easier to use package for under $1000? I understand why you want it - so do I, but I fear there is no chance of it happening.
Projected frame lines from a LCD would allow zoom and parallax correction.

With the potential of two models in the pipe line:
one is going to be disappointingly basic - probably only rear LCD (<E-620/G1 price bracket ?) ; the second has the potential to be very exciting ( E-30/GH1 price bracket ?)
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Old 05-30-2009   #30
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For those wondering what the connection between the PEN shorts and the new m4/3rds camera, if you check the URL, it's listed under dslr. I think it's a safe bet that a new dslr would not be inspired by the PEN, which makes it seem to me likely that they're referring to the m4/3rds camera. It also seems to me promising that it is listed under dslr rather than point/shoot.

I'm excited to see what they come out with. In a market where every camera is essentially the same as every other camera and even new ground breaking designs are made to look like every other camera (see G1), a little bit of looking back might be a good breath of fresh air.

As long as Olympus are bold enough, and I feel like they probably are, at least moreso than Panasonic who are really lucky to be making cameras in the first place, I think this camera could start some real innovation in a stagnant market.
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Old 05-30-2009   #31
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Will the sensor be in portrait orientation (vertical) like the original pens?
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Old 05-30-2009   #32
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Will the sensor be in portrait orientation (vertical) like the original pens?
I wouldn't think so. The 4/3rds sensor will fit within the dimensions of the half frame size but with conventional orientation. As someone pointed out, it's about 1/4 frame size.
I don't think the market would accept the portrait orientation.
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Old 05-30-2009   #33
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Originally Posted by wlewisiii View Post
I guess I'm not sure why this is a surprise... Oly has foundered over the past several decades and will be gone soon. This attempt to associate thier digital products with with one of their few past successes is only a simple desperate stab at survival. Pen & OM will soon be a simple memory, fading quickly...

Sorry,

William
Haven't you heard? The 4/3rds was dead when it launched. And Olympus doesn't even really exist.
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Old 05-30-2009   #34
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what are they going to call it? "olympus pen d" is already taken.
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Old 05-30-2009   #35
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what are they going to call it? "olympus pen d" is already taken.
I'm betting on Olympus Pen mFT
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Old 05-30-2009   #36
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I wonder if this new Olympus Pen will have Image Stabilization?

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Old 05-30-2009   #37
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Sigma DP1/DP2 sensor size: 20.7mm x 13.8mm
Olympus Four Thirds sensor size: 18mm 13.5mm
Pentax/Samsung APS-c sensor size: 23.4mm x 15.6mm
And the 110 film format is 17mm x 13mm, with one sprocket hole, just to set the record straight. So 4/3 and m4/3 is very close to 110 format in size.

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Old 05-30-2009   #38
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High priced garbage? That's one heck of a brainwashing campaign, maybe Leica should try it.
hahaha - you are right about that - but i think they already did they and made success.
i am sorry about making off topic post like this before - but i had to answer to ignorance...

to get back on topic - i think it will be great if olympus really make that digital pen - i always loved their design style - compact and yet look so durable... im not digital kind of guy - but i enjoy to see that some companies have courage to mae something that is not so mainstream.
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Old 05-30-2009   #39
Steve Bellayr
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Other than the outward appearance/style how would this camera be any different than a number of retro digitals? Rolleiflex did one which did not get rave reviews.
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Old 05-30-2009   #40
Pickett Wilson
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I think the market for all this stuff is really Japan, anything with the slightest hint of retro is a must have.
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