Nazi leica
Old 10-25-2009   #1
anorphirith
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Nazi leica

this thing must be kinna rare

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/pho/1427742018.html

"WWII issue. 35mm leica rangefinder camera
with 50mm Leitz Elmar lens
This rare camera was issued to Luftwafte air corps officers for the purpose of ariel survailance
during the reign of the Third Reich
Camera body lens and all workings are in excelllent condition. No signs of wear.
Chrome body with leather over metal.
Includes leather case and lens cap "
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Old 10-25-2009   #2
Pickett Wilson
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And not even a very nice fake.
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Old 10-25-2009   #3
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so ugly fake I can even recognize!
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Old 10-25-2009   #4
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correct forum for this thread would be "Russian FSU RF"
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Old 10-25-2009   #5
Juan Valdenebro
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Original poster was right. Such an ugly fake is a rare one!
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Old 10-25-2009   #6
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This looks like a Zorki 1e, probably made between 1954 and 1956. They go for $30 to $40 on eBay.
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Old 10-25-2009   #7
Graham Line
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Ariel was not pleased at being surveilled by such declasse photo equipment, either.
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Old 10-25-2009   #8
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I like the "50mm Leitz Elmar lens" best ...
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Old 10-25-2009   #9
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I do not envy the photographer who is forced to shoot aerial surveillance photos with a 50mm lens!
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Old 10-25-2009   #10
anorphirith
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wow good to know, if I had the money I'd have probably contacted the guy by now, looks like a new type of scam to look for
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Old 10-25-2009   #11
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I wrote the seller offering $100... He probably wasn't amused...

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Old 10-25-2009   #12
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I wouldn't be too hard on the guy just yet, as there's always a chance he actually thinks it's real. What if the poor man payed $3000 for it himself?
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Old 10-25-2009   #13
JohnTF
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Nice coating on the lens as well. ;-)
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Old 10-25-2009   #14
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Originally Posted by anorphirith View Post
looks like a new type of scam to look for
A fairly old scam, this type of thing was quite populsr in the 1990s.
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Old 10-25-2009   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneSavage View Post
I wouldn't be too hard on the guy just yet, as there's always a chance he actually thinks it's real. What if the poor man payed $3000 for it himself?
IF he spent USD 3000 like that, he almost deserves these responses, three grand is an awful lot to blow on an old camera and you should not simply trust the story that comes with it, but check it as well!

I bet nobody would spend three grand on a painting just because the seller says its a Rembrandt, right?

I had a camera like this one (well, a 'Kriegsberichter' engraved one) that was all brass, took it apart and painted it the correct colour grey, bought another one in parts to substitute the knobs and levers with chrome ones, and put it back together. Then it looked nice.

But it still was a Zorki, and not a Leica!
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Old 10-25-2009   #16
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Originally Posted by CLE-RF View Post
Want to buy: Leica III nr. 170471
Give me $3000 and a Zorki and you can have your birthday Leica allright
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Old 10-25-2009   #17
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Originally Posted by anorphirith View Post
wow good to know, if I had the money I'd have probably contacted the guy by now, looks like a new type of scam to look for
Why would you want a Nazi camera?
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Old 10-26-2009   #18
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quote
Why would you want a Nazi camera?

Can cameras be political?
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Old 10-26-2009   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
quote
Why would you want a Nazi camera?

Can cameras be political?
Symbols can.

Anyways I just don't get how someone would even consider *if they had the money* spending $3000 for a camera with a swastika on it unless they have a serious fascination with the Third Reich.
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Old 10-26-2009   #20
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Anyways I just don't get how someone would even consider *if they had the money* spending $3000 for a camera with a swastika on it unless they have a serious fascination with the Third Reich.
This moral discussion keeps popping up often when someone points at a fake Nazi Leica somewhere.

There's certainly a fair number of people who have a morbid fascination with all things Nazi. Over here I guess they're rarer than in the States or the UK.

There weren't really all that many Leicas produced which had Swastikas on them. Hence I guess one might imagine a collector with apolitical collecting habits, from whose point of view the swastika is just another symbol that makes the camera rare, and valuable on grounds of scarcity, like the Swedish crowns.
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Old 10-26-2009   #21
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The wartime German lenses are first rate picture taking optics. The Wartime Leica IIIc had a version which added ball-bearing movement to the shutter.

I have three wartime Sonnars, one in Contax mount and two in LTM. No Swastika anywhere in them. I've taken several apart, cleaned, and collimated them.










I suppose the more pertinant question is who would ruin a perfectly good Russian camera and think it was worth $4,000.
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Old 10-26-2009   #22
Pickett Wilson
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The Luftwaffe actually used a variation of the 250 Reporter (Based on the IIIC) with 50mm lenses for arial surveillance. They were mounted on the planes and fired by remote control.

I've always wondered how good the images they got actually were.
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Old 10-26-2009   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rxmd View Post
This moral discussion keeps popping up often when someone points at a fake Nazi Leica somewhere.

There's certainly a fair number of people who have a morbid fascination with all things Nazi. Over here I guess they're rarer than in the States or the UK.
Yeah, I've noticed that, too. Often it's in combination with an S/M bondage fetish.
Not really that common here in Switzerland and, as you say, in Germany but maybe that's also because it's a more delicate topic around here.
Also, it would be against the law in Germany to sell that Leica due to the swastika.

I wasn't even trying to pass a moral judgement or anything. I'm also not really surprised that someone would have an interest in it due to the rarity. What surprised me is that, given the funds, the OP would've spent that kind of money on it. It's not like he saw it at a garage sale for $20. Even if it were real, it's like 1000% more than a regular wartime Leica would go for. I can't see how the swastika would add that much value unless the buyer has a fetish for Nazi stuff.
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Old 10-26-2009   #24
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Here's my "mint" condition fake Leica that I bought in the 1990's sometime. Some of them were pretty nicely made (without all the graphics).

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Old 10-28-2009   #25
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I have a Mauser with Nazi, US, and Israeli proofs, in 7.62 Nato.

Never shot it, but it was interesting to me, evidently it was picked up by the US, re-barreled to the .308, sent to Israel to be used in the wars there, then sold and imported to the US as surplus.

Maybe it could be exhibited with a WWII camera?

I know what you mean though about the WWII stuff, my friend's dad brought back a flag, and I did not want it around, regardless the price. Never cared much for the crooked cross or the double S's.

OTOH, a IIIc K-- with normal marks?

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Old 10-28-2009   #26
anorphirith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie123 View Post
Symbols can.

Anyways I just don't get how someone would even consider *if they had the money* spending $3000 for a camera with a swastika on it unless they have a serious fascination with the Third Reich.
Or have a serious fascination for rare leicas... and would actually think it's worth more than 3000 if it was real
btw leitz is a hero who saved hundred of jews that would be a paradox to buy this leica then

I would also love to buy a Luger, german gun made and used by the nazis.
I don't give a **** about the nazis or the third reich. but more about the rarity of the pistol it's sofistication,design and uniqueness.

I also don't like beeing called a nazi lover
I never thought this thread would go that way....
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Old 10-28-2009   #27
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Originally Posted by anorphirith View Post
Or have a serious fascination for rare leicas... and would actually think it's worth more than 3000 if it was real
btw leitz is a hero who saved hundred of jews that would be a paradox to buy this leica then

I would also love to buy a Luger, german gun made and used by the nazis.
I don't give a **** about the nazis or the third reich. but more about the rarity of the pistol it's sofistication,design and uniqueness.

I also don't like beeing called a nazi lover
I never thought this thread would go that way....
Sorry but you don't seem like a collector as you didn't even spot the fake. Also, if you're just after the sophistication and design there are plenty of "regular" wartime Leitz cameras around. As for uniqueness, I can have my dog take a dump on it before you put it in your cabinet. It'll be the only one he ever shat on.
Just kidding....I don't have a dog.

Anyways, I didn't really call you a Nazi lover, I just suggested that you may have a fascination with Nazi paraphernalia if you're so keen on this. It's not like I said you like to be spanked by prostitutes in SS uniform. You're not in politics, are you?

But let's just leave it at this as I'm not really serious and don't want this to turn into some kind of fight.
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Old 10-28-2009   #28
anorphirith
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Quote:
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Sorry but you don't seem like a collector as you didn't even spot the fake
I never said I was a collector, more interested in flipping for money
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But let's just leave it at this as I'm not really serious and don't want this to turn into some kind of fight.
I agree. Good thinking, you should use that everytime you post a reply

Last edited by anorphirith : 10-28-2009 at 23:30.
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Old 10-30-2009   #29
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...so much so that previous uses of a symbol can get turned on their head, the swastika being one example. Some Native Americans, including Navajos here in Arizona, used a symbol that looked exactly like a swastika, but, of course, they didn't call it a swastika and they certainly weren't Nazis. There's still a state-owned building that houses the Agriculture Department near the Capitol that has them carved into the building. The Navajos had to disown the symbol after that crazy Austrian and his band of thugs turned the symbol into something very evil.
My friends have a 1910 era home, with one of the decorative tiles in the foyer having a very similar symbol. I would tell you that there is a mezuzah above it, but I cannot spell it-- found the spelling, hope it is correct. ;-)

As to Lugers, the US considered adopting them before they settled on the 1911 Colt/ Browning, some were made with American Eagles on them, and the few remaining ones in 45 ACP would buy a lot of film. It remains a classic symbol of a very evil time, though it was adopted in 1908, and actually replaced by several other pistols less evil looking. Switzerland, for example, adopted them.

Symbols are powerful, few would rival the Swastika for hate and evil.

Regards, John
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Last edited by JohnTF : 10-30-2009 at 09:02.
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