Old 04-15-2018   #41
ChrisLivsey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post

That was on page 12 of the booklet. The words "countless years" and "decades to come" suggest that, perhaps, spending $925 on a lawyer might be a better option?

Regards, David
"The word “guarantee” should not be used in a way that could confuse consumers about their legal rights but may be used colloquially provided the meaning is clear."

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online...arranties.html

I think we say "take it with a pinch of salt".
Let's not go to the M8 "upgradable forever" shall we?
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Old 04-15-2018   #42
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So that leaves the M262. Is it really worth another $2575 over the M9 just to get a fatter body?
That is a question only you can answer.
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Old 04-15-2018   #43
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Originally Posted by Beemermark View Post
So that leaves the M262. Is it really worth another $2575 over the M9 just to get a fatter body?
Which lens would you like to have for $2575 ?
Will that have more of a beneficial effect on your photography than owning an M262 with your current lenses rather than an M9 and an extra lens?
Can you see a difference in images posted here or elsewhere similar to your work between the M9 and the M262 that would justify that cost?
Can you see images posted here or elsewhere using a lens that you think would be nice/useful/interesting to own.
In five years time which will have retained most monetary value, an M262 or a lens?

Just answer these yourself and perhaps add - where could I go for $2575 and take some amazing photographs with what I already own?
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Old 04-15-2018   #44
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Summing up my personal opinion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemermark View Post
... Is it really worth another $2575 over the M9 just to get a fatter body?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
That is a question only you can answer.
Yes, buying the M-D 262 certainly was for me; it was worth buying it outright at a slightly discounted from MSRP price. It is without a doubt the M that has become my favorite of all that I've owned in either film or digital Ms (six film, three digital). (I've kept my favorite of the film Ms too, the M4-2.)

I agree that only the OP can determine the right answer for him.

And again, the M-D 262 is not a 'fatter body'. In any way that counts, it actually feels slimmer than the M9 did and, in measurements, isn't anyway.

What other things and what travel I might spend my money on is largely unimportant to this decision, for me at least. Because I'd do those things and buy those things anyway, regardless what camera I bought.
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Old 04-15-2018   #45
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You mean there's no manual frame line selection on the M262? Well, there goes that idea. M240 the same way?
The manual frame line lever IS present on the M-D typ262, the M10, M-P typ240, M Monochrom typ246, and the film cameras. NOT present on the M typ240 and M typ262
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Old 04-15-2018   #46
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I was very close to purchasing an M9-P, new sensor, wonderful condition...but an M-D 262 became available and I took a leap of faith to give that a try, given the positive feedback from the current users of the M-D. It is now my favourite digital M, I still own the M240 but I can't see any reason to hold on to it. The sensor issue is and will always be a negative associated with the M9's, (replaced or not replaced sensor) so I'm happy in retrospect that I avoided it. I was just at Tamarkin Camera and held the M10, yes it's thinner, might be a touch lighter, all positives but the M-D without that screen gives it a run for the money. Feels great in the hands, in my opinion no need for any thumb support attachment, and it takes great photos which convert very well to B&W.
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Old 04-15-2018   #47
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The manual frame line lever IS present on the M-D typ262, the M10, M-P typ240, M Monochrom typ246, and the film cameras. NOT present on the M typ240 and M typ262
Hmm. Well, i feel cheated: it's certainly not there on my M-D, i pulled it out of my bag to check again... i wonder who made off with it?
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Old 04-15-2018   #48
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Hmm. Well, i feel cheated: it's certainly not there on my M-D, i pulled it out of my bag to check again... i wonder who made off with it?
It shows up in the ad photos and is referenced in the manual. Perhaps it was only on the prototype and later dropped. Is a poll is in order?
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Old 04-15-2018   #49
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
It shows up in the ad photos and is referenced in the manual. Perhaps it was only on the prototype and later dropped. Is a poll is in order?
Godfrey is joking .

On my M-D which is not a prototype, the field selection lever is very discrete but it's definitely at same place as other Ms that have it.

My other M (type 262) lack it.
Sometimes, in use, I forgot that the M262 has no such lever, only return to reality when the searching finger find nothing there.

Talking about M-D, in use it's the best digital M that I use :
- using this M-D has nothing common with other M
- feeling in hand without LCD is an unique experience in digital M
- comparing to M10, handling is better even if it's a bit thicker, digits can place anywhere comfortably, at the back
- no worry on battery life is another plus
- at first, the remaining "frames" show on each shutter trip bothered me, but in use it's a plus now, I don't "see" it anymore
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Old 04-15-2018   #50
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Hmm. Well, i feel cheated: it's certainly not there on my M-D, i pulled it out of my bag to check again... i wonder who made off with it?
Could I be that nuts? So I checked again, and yes indeed my M-D does have the frame preview lever, and yes it was the M-D not my M240... Mine was new from B&H in November 2016. Mystery about yours...
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Old 04-15-2018   #51
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Yes, I was joking: the frame preview lever is there on the M-D. I just use it so little it might as well not be. ;-)

G
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Old 04-15-2018   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
Which lens would you like to have for $2575 ?
Will that have more of a beneficial effect on your photography than owning an M262 with your current lenses rather than an M9 and an extra lens?
Can you see a difference in images posted here or elsewhere similar to your work between the M9 and the M262 that would justify that cost?
Can you see images posted here or elsewhere using a lens that you think would be nice/useful/interesting to own.
In five years time which will have retained most monetary value, an M262 or a lens?

Just answer these yourself and perhaps add - where could I go for $2575 and take some amazing photographs with what I already own?
One compelling reason to stick with the Leica M series (including film) is I already own every lens I want. Way too many in fact. IF I didn't love the lenses so much I would seriously consider throwing the M9 in the garbage. But you bring up a good point, what else could I buy with the $2175. maybe a down payment on my tax bill?
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Old 04-16-2018   #53
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Originally Posted by Beemermark View Post
One compelling reason to stick with the Leica M series (including film) is I already own every lens I want. Way too many in fact. IF I didn't love the lenses so much I would seriously consider throwing the M9 in the garbage. But you bring up a good point, what else could I buy with the $2175. maybe a down payment on my tax bill?
Hmm. Wouldn't it be nice to get the latest, best quality body for those lenses? The M9, released in 2009, was Leica's first full-frame digital camera. Perhaps they've improved things a little since it was designed/developed in 2007-2009. We're a quarter of the way through 2018 now, a whole decade later.

Even the Leica M film cameras were improved significantly over any 10 year period of their manufacture as a general rule.

G
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Old 04-16-2018   #54
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Yeah, if you're packing that much lens kit for the M system, I'd upgrade to something newer. M10 seems to be the go-to. I couldn't afford that, so I opted for an M240 and am pleased as punch with it.
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Old 04-16-2018   #55
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I am confused... A few weeks ago I received my M9 with the new, corrosion-free sensor.

I was under the impression that the new sensor would not develop the corrosion problem that plagued the M9. Am I mistaken?

Anyway the M9 works great (so far) both outside and in the studio, using strobes.
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Old 04-16-2018   #56
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I always feel if it takes so long to decide on something you should either go the cheapest route or do nothing.
I wouldn't keep with a system just because you have lots of lenses one of the great things about Leica is how easy it is to sell. You could always sell some stuff and buy an M10.
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Old 04-16-2018   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Hmm. Wouldn't it be nice to get the latest, best quality body for those lenses? The M9, released in 2009, was Leica's first full-frame digital camera. Perhaps they've improved things a little since it was designed/developed in 2007-2009. We're a quarter of the way through 2018 now, a whole decade later.

Even the Leica M film cameras were improved significantly over any 10 year period of their manufacture as a general rule.

G
I don't think Leica film cameras have improved at all since the M2, maybe digital Ms have improved I certainly hope so! but photography hasn't got any better since 2009.
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Old 04-16-2018   #58
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I got mine replaced in 2015. Worked great till I recently noticed a similar issue to the one that caused me to send in initially. Might just be stuck pixels or something but I'm waiting to hear back from Leica. Hoping they don't hold my camera hostage for several months again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gdmcclintock View Post
I am confused... A few weeks ago I received my M9 with the new, corrosion-free sensor.

I was under the impression that the new sensor would not develop the corrosion problem that plagued the M9. Am I mistaken?

Anyway the M9 works great (so far) both outside and in the studio, using strobes.
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Old 04-16-2018   #59
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My M-E is 2015 made. It has old sensor which corroded. "Few weeks ago" shouldn't, but some are skeptical.

Something I want to mention regarding OP. M240 and its flavors are absolutely more advanced technically than M9 series. But... While M9 sensor is often (IMO) limited in DR, M240 sensor is not impressive either. Two days ago I looked at M240 sensor pictures on Flickr and LUF and I wasn't impressed at all... M9 sensor at least has incredible clearness, which is noise free at low ISO under bright light or with flash. IMO.
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Old 04-16-2018   #60
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I would repair the M9, no one is going to be manufacturing CCD sensor cameras in the future I'd bet and the images from such are unique.
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Old 04-16-2018   #61
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My M9 will arrive to me tomorrow in the mail, and I will mail Leica back their M240. I never used the M240 at an ISO greater than 400, so there really was no need for the M240 for me if high ISO is the main goal.
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Old 04-16-2018   #62
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I would repair the M9, no one is going to be manufacturing CCD sensor cameras in the future I'd bet and the images from such are unique.
That is a really good point!
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Old 04-16-2018   #63
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My M9 will arrive to me tomorrow in the mail, and I will mail Leica back their M240. I never used the M240 at an ISO greater than 400, so there really was no need for the M240 for me if high ISO is the main goal.

Raid, this is exciting news. The M9 is finally coming home! I bet you miss the M240...
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Old 04-17-2018   #64
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My M9 will arrive to me tomorrow in the mail, and I will mail Leica back their M240. I never used the M240 at an ISO greater than 400, so there really was no need for the M240 for me if high ISO is the main goal.
Based on your experience (and ignore the costs involved) do you wish now that you would have traded your M9 for the M?
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Old 04-17-2018   #65
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Quote:
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I am confused... A few weeks ago I received my M9 with the new, corrosion-free sensor.

I was under the impression that the new sensor would not develop the corrosion problem that plagued the M9. Am I mistaken?

Anyway the M9 works great (so far) both outside and in the studio, using strobes.
You are not mistaken.

The IR filter layer film in your new sensor assembly is designed to be chemically stable.

I suggest the failure risk for the new M9 sensor assemblies due to any common problem is similar to any other digital camera's risk... very low to nil.

Besides improper cleaning or maintenance, the largest risks are excessive heat or physical impact damage. Long exposure to direct sunlight through a lens could damage any sensor (link).

Pixel failure (dead, stuck or hot pixels) can be mapped out.
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Old 04-17-2018   #66
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Raid, this is exciting news. The M9 is finally coming home! I bet you miss the M240...
I will miss the M240. It was a good 7-8 months of using this camera each week. It never failed me.
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Old 04-17-2018   #67
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Based on your experience (and ignore the costs involved) do you wish now that you would have traded your M9 for the M?
Not at all. I may just keep on using my M8 and M9 together as I have been doing for several years. The M9 is an excellent camera for my photography needs and practices. I am busy with many things in my work related research, and I don't want to be bogged down by camera or lens choices. It is just a wonderful hobby for me, and I am enjoying it a lot when I have the time for it.
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Old 04-17-2018   #68
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Peter Karbe wrote me that I should expect purple smears at the edhes when I use a (very) wide angle lens on a digital Leica due to the cover glass of the sensor. "The incident angles of the lens are that steep and effects colour aberrations.".

My question to the experts here [whoever you are!]: is there any scientific reason if/why a CCD sensor would be better/worse with regard to purple smears than a CMOS sensor?
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Old 04-17-2018   #69
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I know it is not on the list but I would (if you have the disposable income) repair the M9 and get a sensor replaced used M9 Monochrom. B&W I know but this will add a high ISO camera and add something different to your equipment.

YMMV.

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