Need opinions, M9, M 242, Mp or M262
Old 1 Week Ago   #1
Beemermark
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Need opinions, M9, M 242, Mp or M262

So I just got the estimate to replace the sensor on my M9. Sensor replacement is $925. If I go the trade in route the M262 is $3100, the M 240 is $3500 and the M-P is $3900.

To me the trivial difference between the M & M-P isn't worth discussing let alone spending $400. I rarely, if ever shoot in rapid succession (2 vs 1 GB buffer). My Nikon has live view and the only time I use it is for macro work, not something I going to do with the Leica. Movies, except for seeing how it works I've never used it (or missed it) on the Nikon or X-Pro2.

So that leaves the M262. Is it really worth another $2575 over the M9 just to get a fatter body?

Opinions please.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #2
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Assuming an M-10 isn't an option?

Personally none of the other Leica's appeal to me. I'm sending my M9 in for yet another sensor problem. If I were in your shoes, which I may be shortly, not sure what I'd do. Probably just get it fixed and maybe sell it before the sensor breaks again and pick up an M10 used when prices come down.

Will be curious what you decide.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #3
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Get the Monochrom.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #4
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I would pay the $925 and get the new new sensor. Then either keep that camera, or sell it and buy a super clean mint like new M240 for $3k-ish.
Chances are it will cost you nothing with what you make from selling a new new sensor M9.

I would not pay new money for a digi Leica ever again...
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Old 6 Days Ago   #5
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Sounds like you have a lot of competent gear beside digital Leica. I would just get the new sensor and use the M9.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #6
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The M 262 is an attractive choice, not just for the lower cost.... quieter shutter for instance. If you have no use for live view and video, the simpler menus and controls are nice. I went one step further with a M-D 262, liking it a lot.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #7
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I'm puzzled, is it 3100 or 2575?
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Old 6 Days Ago   #8
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If you like the output of your M9, go for repair route.
Remember only that in future if you want to sell the M9, it would be difficult as prices go down everyday.

If you need/want/can afford new Leica M, my advice is M(typ262) that is a very nice replacement of M9 (some would not because of CMOS from CCD but that is only "taste" which is individual).

Side note.
As Doug, my preferred one is M-D ...
this is the perfect digital M for my use (I understand that this is an extreme choice not for everyone).
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Old 6 Days Ago   #9
jsrockit
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Get the M9 repaired, sell it... use your other cameras.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemermark View Post
...

Opinions please.
I vote for the M-262.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #11
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I've been close to buying an m240 a few times in recent months to replace my M9, in the UK m240s are going down in price all the time 4 months ago they were all at least £3000ish now I see them from dealers for less than £2500, m240 is quite old technology already so maybe I will pick one up in a year or so and who knows what price they will be!
In the mean time I decided just to use my M9 (new sensor) until it gives up. As already said by someone I wouldn't buy a new Leica digital again even for the price of a secondhand m240 you could pickup a Nikon d810 with a couple of nice lenses, a Canon 5dmk4 or Xpro 1 with a 35mm 1.4 and still have almost £2000 left!
If I was you I would get the M9 repaired wait a few months then decide, the Leica upgrade deal for a M240 is nothing really that great once the M9 has a new sensor you could sell it for maybe £1600 (or more) add another £1000 to that for an m240 from a dealer with 6-12 months warranty.
good luck.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemermark View Post
So I just got the estimate to replace the sensor on my M9. Sensor replacement is $925. If I go the trade in route the M262 is $3100, the M 240 is $3500 and the M-P is $3900.

To me the trivial difference between the M & M-P isn't worth discussing let alone spending $400. I rarely, if ever shoot in rapid succession (2 vs 1 GB buffer). My Nikon has live view and the only time I use it is for macro work, not something I going to do with the Leica. Movies, except for seeing how it works I've never used it (or missed it) on the Nikon or X-Pro2.

So that leaves the M262. Is it really worth another $2575 over the M9 just to get a fatter body?

Opinions please.
Have had all of these except for the M240.

- Didn't like the M9's native JPEG rendering nor its sluggish responsiveness.

- Big improvement to the M-P over M 240 is the sapphire LCD glass and a slight improvement in responsiveness due to the increased internal buffer memory. BTW, it's no thicker than an M9: fits in the same fitted case except for the control locations. The additional weight of the 240 is mostly the battery—which is great because it gets more than double the life per charge that the M9 does.

- In the end, though, I prefer the utter simplicity of the M-D typ 262 and its improved handling ease (no LCD or buttons that get in the way of my fingers). The typ 262 sensor has the best rendering DNGs straight out of the camera of this group of cameras, far as I can see.

- I compared the M-D typ 262 to the M10 at the shop. I like the M-D more, even though the M10's revised viewfinder and improved, more sensitive sensor are worth while.

I feel that if you are really in love with the M9's imaging qualities, then paying for the repair is a no brainer. But if you're not so in love with the M9 that it's a shoe-in to just do that, it's very much worth the upgrade cost to either of the typ 240 or typ 262 cameras. I would never buy another M based on the M9's sensor generation (whether M9, MM, or M-E); I just don't like their rendering as much as the later models and the improvements to responsiveness with the later models make them far more appealing to me.

I suspect I'll be making photographs with the M-D typ 262 for quite a few years to come.

G
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Old 6 Days Ago   #13
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The M9 with a "certified new sensor" should get you around $2500+. A used M240 can be found for $3500+, and it may cost you in the end $1000+ to make this switch. Therefore, I would not take Leica's upgrade to an M240.

I am using an M240 loaner camera since last August or so. It is a workhorse. Nothing really to complain about. You get used to it after a while.

The M9 has its charm if you are a daytime photographer of well lit subjects, so to speak.
I also would not spend too much on a digital Leica unless there is a specific camera that you really want to have and use.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #14
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a new M 262 for $3100? that's what i'd do. you could repair the M9, shoot it until the used M 262 market drops to low $2k range, then sell the M9 for whatever you could get and buy a used M 262. i'd have rather have a new M 262 now. likely more reliable over the same time frame.

i dislike leica's new camera prices, but i dislike sending used, non-warranteed cameras to their service centers even more.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
The M9 with a "certified new sensor" should get you around $2500+. A used M240 can be found for $3500+, and it may cost you in the end $1000+ to make this switch.
1,000 plus the cost to repair the M9 is more like 1,900 to make the switch to the M240, no?
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Old 6 Days Ago   #16
JeffS7444
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If your M9 is still usable as-is but simply has some sensor spots due to corrosion, I'd consider selling as-is (~$1200?), at which point all options including M10 or some OTL (Other Than Leica) are on the table.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #17
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Would the M262 be new, or factory refurbished and certified?
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Old 6 Days Ago   #18
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Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Would the M262 be new, or factory refurbished and certified?
If you're doing the trade-up with Leica, you're getting brand new, full warranty products. That's how I acquired my M-P 240: they gave me a better return on the M9 than I could get selling it, and I had a brand new camera in the end.

Leica prices are what they are. Don't like 'em? Don't buy one.

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Old 6 Days Ago   #19
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1,000 plus the cost to repair the M9 is more like 1,900 to make the switch to the M240, no?
I must have assumed that you get the free sensor. My mistake, of course.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #20
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I know you are looking for opinions but it is hard to put oneself in another's shoes. I had the M9 but sold it two years ago as I really did not want to get into digital. However, the advantages of technology are pretty good so I picked up a mint MP240 about two months ago.

I am enjoying it. Have not done any video and don't use live view but both features are there if you want them. I am finding the live view is great on checking critical focus. Am not sure I would limit myself with a 262. If you like the M9, I would keep it. However, I think the 240 is enough of an upgrade to warrant its purchase. I mean I did.

Good luck with your decision.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #21
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I am finding the live view is great on checking critical focus.
Live view is also good for checking whether the RF needs adjustment.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
If you're doing the trade-up with Leica, you're getting brand new, full warranty products. That's how I acquired my M-P 240: they gave me a better return on the M9 than I could get selling it, and I had a brand new camera in the end.

Leica prices are what they are. Don't like 'em? Don't buy one.

G
Then it seems much better to do the trade, and not go through waiting for the M9 to be repaired; after which you have to wait to find the right M262 or 240, which will still not be as desirable as a brand new one with warranty.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #23
Matthew Runkel
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The M262 is great and also happens to weigh the same as an M9. Considering that you may be able to find a very clean used one with a shop warranty for about $3500, whether Leica’s trade-in offer is an attractive value proposition depends on how you value your M9 and how important it is to get a new-with-warranty M262 versus probably a lightly-used one someone traded toward an M10. I would value your M9 at $1500, so the very clean used M262 would be $2000 additional and the new-with-warranty trade-in would be $3100 additional. If the warranty and less legwork is worth $1100 to you, then the trade-in makes sense.

If it were me, I would try to get maximum value from the M9 and get a good deal on a used M262.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #24
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Personally I'd go for a rebuilt M9. Not only the cheapest option, but without the added complication of the M, and still with proper "diffuser window" illumination for the frame lines. And manual frame-line selection: very seldom needed, but extremely welcome when it is. See also https://www.americanphotomag.com/gear-review-leica-m for a discussion of "improvements".

Cheers,

R.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #25
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Thanks for all the responses. Still haven't decided. If the M9 did not have the design flaw of the sensor I would of some point upgraded to the M10 ( I was seriously considering it when the M10 was announced). Now I doubt I will ever buy another digital M body.

The M typ 262 seems to have an equal number of pluses and minuses over the M9. Except for the 24 mp sensor and higher ISO of 6400 I just can't bring myself to spend another $2175 for the M typ 262(my early math was a faulty).

I leaning heavily to have it fixed, use it for a year while under warranty, and then decide if I change my mind about buying another digital M body.

Meanwhile feel free to keep the opinions coming.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #26
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How come it is $2175 now, if trade in is 3100?
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Old 5 Days Ago   #27
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This is an interesting thread for me. The M9 I purchased 2 years ago with under 1800 clicks so far shows no signs of corrosion. It is a later model made in the last year or so of production. Based on the software in the camera it is definitely the original sensor. I think I will keep it even if I have to spend the $$ for a new sensor one day.
Along with my M8 I find both cameras a delight to use.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #28
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M 262 is $3100 trade in. The M9 repair is $925. So to "upgrade" to the M 262 would cost $2175 more than repairing the M9. Same logic the M would be $2575 more out of pocket than just repairing the M9.

So i ask myself is the M 262 features worth an additional $2175 over the cost of repairing the M9.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #29
Matthew Runkel
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I think if you are happy with the M9 and how it operates, and will get a decent warranty on the new sensor, it makes sense to get the repair done and keep enjoying the M9. I had an M9 and now have an M262. I can’t think of a way the M262 trails the M9. The M9 was delightful in good light and, of course, quickly hopeless in situations requiring a buffer. The M9 was about 90% there, in my view, and would not have worked for me as an only camera. The M262 is more like 98%, a fully-realized digital M. If the ISO and buffer limitations of the M9 don’t bother you, I don’t see much reason for upgrading.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Personally I'd go for a rebuilt M9. Not only the cheapest option, but without the added complication of the M, and still with proper "diffuser window" illumination for the frame lines. And manual frame-line selection: very seldom needed, but extremely welcome when it is. See also https://www.americanphotomag.com/gear-review-leica-m for a discussion of "improvements".

Cheers,

R.
You mean there's no manual frame line selection on the M262? Well, there goes that idea. M240 the same way?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #31
David Hughes
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Hmmm, the M9 brochure says:- "The digital components are also carefully selected to ensure utter reliability over countless years of practical use. Matchless manufacturing precision and painstaking assembly guarantee functional reliability for decades to come."

That was on page 21 of the booklet. The words "countless years" and "decades to come" suggest that, perhaps, spending $925 on a lawyer might be a better option?


EDIT: I have corrected "page 12" to "page 21" above.


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Old 4 Days Ago   #32
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You mean there's no manual frame line selection on the M262? Well, there goes that idea. M240 the same way?
Yes. It isn’t present as well
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Old 4 Days Ago   #33
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I'm looking at some old M9 pictures right now. They were taken in early 2010, fairly soon after my M9 came into the fold, and they are superb. There is a character and charm to the M9 images that I haven't seen with any other camera. M240 images are close. Some M10 images are closer (and have better high ISO performance). But if you like M9 images, stick with the M9. By the time the M9 gives up the ghost, the M10 should be readily available secondhand for much less than retail.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #34
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The M9 is a game of chance. No guarantee you won't be shelling out another $925 in the (near) future.

Personally I'd offload them asap. I own a Typ 262 now - no known issues.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #35
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Quote:
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The M9 is a game of chance. No guarantee you won't be shelling out another $925 in the (near) future.

Personally I'd offload them asap. I own a Typ 262 now - no known issues.
But I don't believe there have been any other issues than the sensor; and there is reason to believe that problem is now corrected. No reason to think the sky is falling. Why panic?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #36
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And the MP240 has the frame line selector lever, no red dot, sapphire glass on the LED, and a buffer twice the size of the straight 240.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #37
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Quote:
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The M9 is a game of chance. No guarantee you won't be shelling out another $925 in the (near) future.
This seems to be a common misconception in this thread, Leica are now fitting the M9 series with the MkII sensor with a cover glass different to the corroding MkI. There have been no reports at all of the MkII sensor showing corrosion issues that I have seen, the early replacements of corrosion were with a MkI sensor which could of course corrode just like the camera's original which is widely reported.

The Leica programme for replacing corroded sensors with the same (MkI) sensor was announced in November 2014. (They had of course been doing this before that date for individual customers, some being charged others under warranty, when the extent of the problem became clear the programme was announced)
The MkII sensor was announced in June 2015 and around October that year they began fitting them.
The free replacement programme ended on August 15th 2017, with some warranty exceptions)

http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-...-camera-models
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Old 4 Days Ago   #38
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Hmmm, the M9 brochure says:- "The digital components are also carefully selected to ensure utter reliability over countless years of practical use. Matchless manufacturing precision and painstaking assembly guarantee functional reliability for decades to come."

That was on page 12 of the booklet. The words "countless years" and "decades to come" suggest that, perhaps, spending $925 on a lawyer might be a better option?

Regards, David
It's why I bought my M-E new. For that price I thought I was getting the highest quality camera, that would have utter reliability and last decades.
Leica using the word 'guarantee' here really is something isn't it?

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Old 4 Days Ago   #39
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You mean there's no manual frame line selection on the M262? Well, there goes that idea. M240 the same way?
M-P typ 240 has the frame line selector, not the M typ 240 or 262.

Personally, I prefer the illuminator being LED and light adaptive as in all the typ 240, 246, and 262 bodies ... I can see the frame lines at the right illumination level in a broader range of ambient lighting than with the diffuser based illuminators.

I never use/never miss the manual frame line selector on any of my metered Leica M bodies. The only time I've ever used it is when I'm using the Leicameter MR-4 on my M4-2, because the metering area corresponds to what the 90mm framelines show.

A significant difference between the M9 and the 240/262 cameras that I noticed is that the later bodies' viewfinders seem easier to see the focusing patch with. I can nail the focus more accurately and more quickly with either the M-P or the M-D than I could with the M9; with the M9, I really needed the magnifying optic for the fast 50mm and longer lenses. (The M10 is even better in this regard.)

G
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Old 4 Days Ago   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hmmm, the M9 brochure says:- "The digital components are also carefully selected to ensure utter reliability over countless years of practical use. Matchless manufacturing precision and painstaking assembly guarantee functional reliability for decades to come."

That was on page 12 of the booklet. The words "countless years" and "decades to come" suggest that, perhaps, spending $925 on a lawyer might be a better option?

Regards, David
If you want to believe in and take as dogma all marketing hype, you'll be complaining about every product on the market.

I have absolutely no complaints about the Leica M-D typ 262. It is exactly, precisely, what I always wanted in a Leica M camera. I never even read the advertising for it.

G
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