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Business / Philosophy of Photography Taking pics is one thing, but understanding why we take them, what they mean, what they are best used for, how they effect our reality -- all of these and more are important issues of the Philosophy of Photography. One of the best authors on the subject is Susan Sontag in her book "On Photography."

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Old 04-15-2018   #161
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Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
"He lectures at one of the big, famous, expensive Art schools in our city."

I think the cirriculum needs changing a little...

Certain concerpts about making money from other people's efforts need to be included or emphassised and a bit about the legal side of things, f'intance.

Talking of that, I thought that in the USA you could get a minimum of US$750 for copyright theft but it's some time since I had a punch up with Americans scanning my stuff and selling it on.

Regards, David
David; I was told by one of these students, that it's possible to get a BFA in Photography, from this "University", without ever taking a single picture. There are enough PhotoShop classes to qualify for a photography major. He told me that image theft within the class (students) is rampant. He said, that there were a handful of kids with real talent, and the others ripped them off constantly. He said, the staff was aware that this was happening and did nothing.

It's all about those tuition checks from mom and dad .. and little else, it seems.
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Old 04-15-2018   #162
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Too bad her parents weren't there to hear that... I bet they're paying the bills!
Yeah, it seems an attitude that many young people have these days. The other phrase I hear, one that was used over and over, by these kids is/was "..you have to!". They are so used to being accommodated that, they don't know what to do when facing a refusal. This girl just got really angry. She actually told me earlier that .. "you owe us". They are taught this stuff. I grew up never thinking that anyone, including my parents, owed me anything. It's a huge difference in generational attitude. Also, I have to note, there are some really hard working and talented students in this mix of kids. They don't seem to share the attitude. The School's department head told me that, those (hard workers with talent) students were about 6% of the current average class of more than 100.

He also said, "We are babysitting the children of the rich".
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Old 04-15-2018   #163
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I was told by one of these students, that it's possible to get a BFA in Photography, from this "University", without ever taking a single picture.
And their goal upon graduation is what?
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Old 04-15-2018   #164
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And their goal upon graduation?
I was on my way outa here.. you caught me.

Well, I don't know. My pal has had two of the 6% work for him as assistants. I knew one of them pretty well. A truly nice and talented kid. His parents are both very successful southern California architects. He was a hard worker. He got around town on a bicycle. The new one is pretty quiet. He also seems nice. He's a very skilled PhotoShop hand. He drives a BMW. I think his parents paid for it.. just my guess.

I don't talk to these kids. Some other photographers in town refuse to interview them. One told me he was floored by the demanding attitudes of the ones he spoke with.

There are 3 big art schools in our city. The local junior college also has a photography program. Those JC kids are taught studio lighting, a real plus for assistant work.

They all want photography jobs. Mostly, beginning as photo assistants.

Edit
In thinking about those two assistants (you got me thinking), rating them in creativity, they are both hard workers, the first kid would get a 9-10 out of 10. The second one, the BMW kid, gets a 5. I think he's a copier .. not an image thief, but a recipe user. I think he would be afraid to try something new. Challenge himself. Could be wrong.. that would be good.
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Old 04-15-2018   #165
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They all want photography jobs. Mostly, beginning as photo assistants.

Edit
In thinking about those two assistants (you got me thinking), rating them in creativity, they are both hard workers, the first kid would get a 9-10 out of 10. The second one, the BMW kid, gets a 5. I think he's a copier .. not an image thief, but a recipe user. I think he would be afraid to try something new. Challenge himself. Could be wrong.. that would be good.
Does anyone else find it bizarre? They think that everything should be had for free, yet they want jobs in the industry? Where do they think their paycheque is going to come from? All the free stuff they give away?
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Old 04-16-2018   #166
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Edit
In thinking about those two assistants (you got me thinking), rating them in creativity, they are both hard workers, the first kid would get a 9-10 out of 10. The second one, the BMW kid, gets a 5. I think he's a copier .. not an image thief, but a recipe user. I think he would be afraid to try something new. Challenge himself. Could be wrong.. that would be good.
In my experience teaching at a state college for 15 years even this kind of criticism is no longer acceptable in academia, and there is part of the problem.
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Old 04-16-2018   #167
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Does anyone else find it bizarre? They think that everything should be had for free, yet they want jobs in the industry? Where do they think their paycheque is going to come from? All the free stuff they give away?

If we're shifting into a discussion around the fact that the younger generation are freeloaders, we should at least acknowledge the fact that their parents' generation spent all the money and loaded them with debt.

In the UK, kids are being loaded with £50k of debt for an education, imposed on them by people who had the same for free.
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Old 04-16-2018   #168
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If we're shifting into a discussion around the fact that the younger generation are freeloaders, we should at least acknowledge the fact that their parents' generation spent all the money and loaded them with debt.

In the UK, kids are being loaded with £50k of debt for an education, imposed on them by people who had the same for free.
Dear Paul,

Did we "spend all the money" though? Or did we (and everyone else) vote on balance for unrealistically low taxes? Note "on balance" because quite a lot of us made the fairly simple connection between taxes and public goods.

Again, did "we" all support the frankly risible idea of keeping kids in compulsory education until the age of 18? It's great them as wants it, but many don't, and won't benefit anyway (I taught for a few years, and I've seen 'em)

Or the idea that 50% of the population should go to university? The present system strikes me as far more "elitist" than in 1969, when I went to university -- and a damn' sight more depressing, too, with the vast debt.

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R.
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Old 04-16-2018   #169
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In my experience teaching at a state college for 15 years even this kind of criticism is no longer acceptable in academia, and there is part of the problem.
As a potential employer, I have a bit more freedom, for now. Things could change as per local politics, i guess. Little would surprise me these days.

Being smart, creative and willing to work hard, makes you a target in some academic environments. In a Physics class, you're a perfect lab partner. In an art class, you make some classmates look bad.
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Old 04-16-2018   #170
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As such, I can only recommend people on our Film FB page move elsewhere for there purchases
Not defending Adorama and whatever they do but I have a feeling they won´t panic when the remaining five film photographers start buying their 2 rolls a month somewhere else...
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Old 04-16-2018   #171
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Our conversation ended with the following from this student (verbatim, I won't forget it): "You're old, you don't get it. Everything is free now. Get a clue!"
Oh, once university is over...they will get a clue as well. ... Not many people make it the appropriation game that are this clueless.
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Old 04-16-2018   #172
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Oh, once university is over...they will get a clue as well. ... Not many people make it the appropriation game that are this clueless.
Most of these kids, the ones who want work, can be found at the numerous Starbucks, making or serving drinks. I don't frequent Starbucks but, I've heard reports from the working photo assistants. I found most of these kids to be pretty angry.

With my pal's old assistant, I found we could talk about a lot of subjects, the many years separating our ages wasn't apparent. On many things (mostly the painters we liked) we didn't agree, but I always enjoyed our conversations. I hope that kid does well. He's very talented and willing to stick his neck out, creatively.

I didn't have a fancy education. Most of the photographers I know didn't. But, I have two friends who worked for Penn and one who worked for Avedon. That's about the best photo schooling possible. Very few qualified for entrance. People who have worked for those friends are very lucky.
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Old 04-16-2018   #173
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I didn't have a fancy education. Most of the photographers I know didn't. But, I have two friends who worked for Penn and one who worked for Avedon. That's about the best photo schooling possible. Very few qualified for entrance. People who have worked for those friends are very lucky.
Photography is not my field professionally, but in the field that I'm in (experimental physics) education is pretty much meaningless except for two things; it shows you can tackle a large project (PhD) and that you can stick with something for a few years. It's just a barrier to entry (you must have a PhD to apply for the job). Other than that, what you really want is what can't be assessed and isn't taught. I want post-docs to be creative, have good spatial perception, and be hard working. Everything else can be learnt on the job pretty easily.

So my question is, do aspiring photographers need a degree to be an assistant for one of the big photographers, or is it more of a "who you know" type scenario? When you talk about being "qualified for entrance" are you talking about formal qualifications, or more informal qualifications (like being hard working and willing to learn, not being a jerk, etc.)?
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Old 04-16-2018   #174
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I don't know whether this quote is accurate or not but apparently Socrates said this:

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”

Seems some things never change. For instance, I, a 29-year-old millennial, look upon Generation Z in the same baleful way my own generation is viewed by its predecessors. Get off my lawn.
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Old 04-16-2018   #175
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Photography is not my field professionally, but in the field that I'm in (experimental physics) education is pretty much meaningless except for two things; it shows you can tackle a large project (PhD) and that you can stick with something for a few years. It's just a barrier to entry (you must have a PhD to apply for the job). Other than that, what you really want is what can't be assessed and isn't taught. I want post-docs to be creative, have good spatial perception, and be hard working. Everything else can be learnt on the job pretty easily.

So my question is, do aspiring photographers need a degree to be an assistant for one of the big photographers, or is it more of a "who you know" type scenario? When you talk about being "qualified for entrance" are you talking about formal qualifications, or more informal qualifications (like being hard working and willing to learn, not being a jerk, etc.)?
The portfolio is the credential.

Many portfolios are kept under wraps, only to be shown to prospective clients. Much work is on websites but, many of us deliver samples on a thumb drive avoiding the web.

Any student (anyone) photographer looking for a job will have a portfolio and resume.

The photos in a portfolio will tell the story of the photographer's creative ability and technical skill. The resume will outline previous work experience. Formal schooling isn't necessary. It's all in the eye. If I was going to school with the idea of being a photographer today, I would major in math (so I could get a job out of school) and minor in Art History and languages.

Photo assistants come in levels that have to do with their technical skill and experience. Many photographers (people like Penn) have several assistants. The tiered progression would be: Studio Manager, 1st assistant, and those below .. some may be full time employees or contract hires. Some of the best and most expensive assistants are contract hires. They like variety and often have specialized skills.

I can tell you about me.. I know that material best.

I had a couple of photo classes in college. I was an unsatisfied science student. I built a portfolio over several years. I didn't have much camera gear but managed. I had access to a couple of darkrooms and made prints.

I landed an assistant's job with NatGeo, working in Italy. When I returned to the States I was hired for an 18 month assignment documenting the living conditions of Native Americans. It didn't pay well but, I enhanced my portfolio of work greatly. I did several memorable portraits, and that stayed with me.

I then worked in a very large professional photo lab as the Tech. My math science skills got me that job, not my pictures. After about a year, I made a deal with the boss, to get time off to do photo work in exchange for not paying me any over time. My overtime hours were accumulated and used for week days off. I used the days off to show my portfolio to graphic designers and art directors.

I began getting jobs and saved the money and bought additional camera gear for work use. After a year of this, I found I needed to learn lighting in a serious way. I showed my book (portfolio) to Irving Penn's former studio manager and I got lucky. I wanted to learn Penn's lighting and found a place to learn it. I worked there off and on for two years, while taking occasional assignments. Some of the art directors I met while working for Penn's former employee hired me once I was off on my own.

I worked very hard, I learned about a lot of stuff I would never use (8x10), but got good at it; it was my job to be good at everything needed. I was an ace at sorting cornflakes for food shots.. stuff like that.

I look for the same stuff in someone I would consider hiring. The assistant I had most recently was a grad of Brooks Institute, before it went into the dumper. Her dad did electronics and other tech work, so she's great with tools and lighting hardware.

One former assistant is a very successful food photographer. She too was a Brooks grad.

Hope that helps, I'm tired of writing.
I spent some time in, what was then called, UC LBL Bldg.51... if you know that place? I wish I had taken photos when the Bev was down. Math is still a hobby.
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Old 04-17-2018   #176
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I don't know whether this quote is accurate or not but apparently Socrates said this:

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”
No, not accurate. We know for certain that it was a *comedy character* called Socrates who said this (*if* the *authentic* Socrates uttered this, then it would certainly have been *jokingly*); see: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Youth#Misattributed

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Seems some things never change. For instance, I, a 29-year-old millennial, look upon Generation Z in the same baleful way my own generation is viewed by its predecessors. Get off my lawn.
Usually it's the direct generation before us or after us that we have issues with; with our grandparents and our grandchildren we have a lot to agree; foremost perhaps the notion that always the one generation inbetween are half-morons, I suppose
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Old 04-17-2018   #177
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David; I was told by one of these students, that it's possible to get a BFA in Photography, from this "University", without ever taking a single picture. There are enough PhotoShop classes to qualify for a photography major. He told me that image theft within the class (students) is rampant. He said, that there were a handful of kids with real talent, and the others ripped them off constantly. He said, the staff was aware that this was happening and did nothing.

It's all about those tuition checks from mom and dad .. and little else, it seems.

Well, um, I dunno; there was a time when to get to university you had to be in the top 3 or so per cent and would come out with a thorough understanding of the knowledge you've gained. But I'm told that these days some degrees are about the level of an "A" level in the 50's and - as you say - only awarded for turning up and not burning the place down.

A few years ago someone we know with a (proper) degree in maths etc* applied for a job as a maths teacher and was told that the job had gone but would they like to teach German or some other language they didn't speak or even know about...

Now, I realise, that the generation that didn't really get a degree are teaching and the heads are (I really, really hope) the only ones with a proper degree.

It's worrying that you can get a degree with ripped off work.

Regards, David
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Old 04-17-2018   #178
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SNIP ...The School's department head told me that, those (hard workers with talent) students were about 6% of the current average class of more than 100.

He also said, "We are babysitting the children of the rich".
These are the ones who would have got a degree, once upon a time; Roger had something to say about it too.

A friend of mine gave up teaching years ago as she said she was tired of being paid like an entertainer at a kid's birthday party to keep them quiet for a while... (Those weren't her exact words but sensitive people might be reading this and we don't want to get RFF banned... )

Regards, David
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Old 04-17-2018   #179
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Ah, I long for the days when older folk didn't believe that vague, hearsay anecdotes demonstrated academic rigour and the superiority of their own generation.

At least in the old days they complained with style:

In a speech to the House of Commons on February 28, 1843, Anthony Ashley Cooper, the 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, ranted:

...a fearful multitude of untutored savages... [boys] with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits...[girls who] drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody...the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly.

(and incidentally, the science is pretty unequivocal: our kids are smarter than us. Average IQs have been going up for decades).
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Old 04-17-2018   #180
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Photography is not my field professionally, but in the field that I'm in (experimental physics) education is pretty much meaningless except for two things; it shows you can tackle a large project (PhD) and that you can stick with something for a few years. It's just a barrier to entry (you must have a PhD to apply for the job). Other than that, what you really want is what can't be assessed and isn't taught. I want post-docs to be creative, have good spatial perception, and be hard working. Everything else can be learnt on the job pretty easily.

So my question is, do aspiring photographers need a degree to be an assistant for one of the big photographers, or is it more of a "who you know" type scenario? When you talk about being "qualified for entrance" are you talking about formal qualifications, or more informal qualifications (like being hard working and willing to learn, not being a jerk, etc.)?

Hmmm, i see a degree course as 3 years of solid study and work, followed by an exam. So how do they drag out teaching photography to occupy that much time?

And with digital would we recognise what they are being taught? Assuming they are being taught and not being set assignments (AKA find out for yourself).

As for standards, look on ebay at the photo's they turn out when selling and claiming they know nothing about photography...

Regards, David

PS I've heard of people getting their dogs credits and professional qualifications, it makes you wonder. I'm thinking of that story about the musician's dog that the conductor objected to in rehearsals and saying it needed to be qualified (amongst many other things) and so it was... (BBC Radio 3 years ago).
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Old 04-17-2018   #181
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(and incidentally, the science is pretty unequivocal: our kids are smarter than us. *Average* IQs have been going up for decades).
Well, *average IQs*, but anecdotal it's often different: one of my teachers' father was Permanent Secretary, immediately after WWII; very likely, otherwise his son wouldn't have earned a degree; the grandson of the Permanent Secretary has no degree at all, but thanks to his family's influence, he's got a comfortable job at a post office ...
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Old 04-17-2018   #182
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no,no, you got it wrong. Total IQ is conserved.
(So average is going down...)
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Old 04-17-2018   #183
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Hmmm, i see a degree course as 3 years of solid study and work, followed by an exam. So how do they drag out teaching photography to occupy that much time?
I went to art school with a focus on Photography earning a BFA in 1998. I did take 10-12 courses related to making photos (B&W for 3 years, Color for 3 years, alternative processes for a year, book making, large format photography, lighting, etc) ... then my thesis for a year (i.e. writing about my work, presenting a show, and reading / writing about theory). You also take classes in other disciplines in Art. Then you have art and photography history classes... all while taking the same regular courses that all college students take. Add to that digital and learning software in today's world... and it is easy to occupy your time.
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Old 04-17-2018   #184
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...I was an ace at sorting cornflakes for food shots.. stuff like that...
Yep. I worked in a big catalog studio right out of school, learned lighting by being the cigarette prop boy on my breaks from the darkroom, watching and asking questions. Learned how to set up the 810 camera and handle the chromes. Moved to freelance assisting, lots of soap and shampoo sets somehow. Suds. Water drops. Running water.

But also one had to load film holders, keep track of the film holders, get the chromes to the lab and run correctly, have the lighting ready when he walked on set, with the polaroids shot and ready for him to review. Make sure the hand model was happy, troubleshoot the plumbing when the fake shower was leaking all over the floor. As you say, everything needed but not in a minute, before the photog asked. That's how you kept the gig.
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Old 04-17-2018   #185
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Yes, well, um, I'm thinking digital photography and most of them will have used computers and digital; that's because my 16 year old granddaughter turns out A3 stuff at school...

So as I see it;

Monday, Intro and differences between real cameras and smart phones but not mentioning film. And in the afternoon how to use a real digital camera. Then for a PhD they could learn to get it right in one or two shots, rather than take a couple of hundred and keep your fingers crossed for luck.

Then they'll all buy and copy from a well known book* or that Kodak freebie** and that will be that.

They can do film in their own time as a hobby and ask questions on RFF. And I do hope none of you think I'm joking...

Regards, David


* "Pictures That Sell: Guide to Successful Stock Photography" by Ray Daffurn and Roger Hicks, published by Collins in 1985.


** "Better 35mm Pictures"


PS This might be a good hand-out for Monday morning: http://www.pbase.com/ericsorensen/im...55921/original
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Old 04-17-2018   #186
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Ooops, I forgot to ask what's a BFA? I know what a BF is btw.


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Old 04-17-2018   #187
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Yes, well, um, I'm thinking digital photography and most of them will have used computers and digital; that's because my 16 year old granddaughter turns out A3 stuff at school...

So as I see it;

Monday, Intro and differences between real cameras and smart phones but not mentioning film. And in the afternoon how to use a real digital camera. Then for a PhD they could learn to get it right in one or two shots, rather than take a couple of hundred and keep your fingers crossed for luck.

Then they'll all buy and copy from a well known book* or that Kodak freebie** and that will be that.

They can do film in their own time as a hobby and ask questions on RFF. And I do hope none of you think I'm joking...

Regards, David


* "Pictures That Sell: Guide to Successful Stock Photography" by Ray Daffurn and Roger Hicks, published by Collins in 1985.


** "Better 35mm Pictures"


PS This might be a good hand-out for Monday morning: http://www.pbase.com/ericsorensen/im...55921/original
I spent three years at college then two at university, it was hard getting a job twenty years ago and I bet it much harder now!
Don't start with all the digital v analogue stuff its all photography, when I got my first job at a local paper everything you shot you processed and printed yourself and I can tell you it was no fun working under a deadline, the only difference today is the deadline has gone from an hour to five minutes.
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Old 04-17-2018   #188
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Thanks PKR
I suppose in science your publication record is your portfolio (more or less), it’s just almost impossible to get publishable science done without the backing of an institution of some sort which requires the degrees.

I have a friend who’s a graphic designer, he hires based on portfolio but they must have a degree of some sort. He want to know they can stick with something for 3 solid years, he says he doesn’t care what the degree is in, just that they stuck with it.
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Old 04-17-2018   #189
David Hughes
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I spent three years at college then two at university, it was hard getting a job twenty years ago and I bet it much harder now!
Don't start with all the digital v analogue stuff its all photography, when I got my first job at a local paper everything you shot you processed and printed yourself and I can tell you it was no fun working under a deadline, the only difference today is the deadline has gone from an hour to five minutes.

Hi,

I believe you but I often chat to other photographers and I am shocked by what they say about how they go about things. The take 200 and hope for one good one school of photographers exists and gets paid for it. And after 6 months they trade in what's left of the camera and buy another but it seems they get away with it as there's six months guarantee left.

No point in telling them how long I've had my old M2 or CL but on one occasion the pro with the Haselblad screwed up so badly that I was able to sell everything I took on the CL and I was there as one of the audience at a ceremony as I knew the bloke being honoured...

Regards, David
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Old 04-17-2018   #190
Paul T.
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no,no, you got it wrong. Total IQ is conserved.
(So average is going down...)
No. Scores in IQ tests have been going up for decades. It's a fascinating phenomenon, sometimes termed the Flynn effect.

The average IQ, obvs, is still 100 but the score on a test to be at the median has gone up.

Of course, there is widespread debate about it, and IQ scores are only a yardstick... but it's far more powerful evidence that our kids will likely be smarter than us, than one story we heard from a friend of a friend.
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Old 04-17-2018   #191
Sumarongi
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Ooops, I forgot to ask what's a BFA? I know what a BF is btw.
United States and Canada: Bachelor(ette) of Fine Arts

The inventors of that degree probably found that the traditional academic Arts were coarse?
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Old 04-17-2018   #192
Bill Clark
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As the saying goes, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”

I consider it a compliment if someone copied a photograph I made.

It didn’t bother me. I had better things to do with my time like having potential client meetings amongst many other things to successfully run a business like I had.

It was fun for me. Smiles!
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Old 04-17-2018   #193
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As the saying goes, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”

I consider it a compliment if someone copied a photograph I made.

It didn’t bother me. I had better things to do with my time like having potential client meetings amongst many other things to successfully run a business like I had.

It was fun for me. Smiles!
Hi Bill;

Let me describe copying as I've seen it, and tell me if you're okay with it?

What I'll describe is a photo that was copied and, "the copier" who won a local court case (jury) with his copy. This was before Photoshop and c 1980s. The copy/adjusting was done/made with Scitex Prepress hardware; the stuff that made Prepress Color Separations. This was long ago and from memory so, I'll do my best with it.

The photo in this case was commissioned by a big name Ad agency. A local big name photographer made it. The scene is, a classic expensive beach home from the 1930s (maybe in Florida) rented for the photo. In front of the home, and a distance away, big in the frame, is a classic car. A roadster I think it was. Lets say it was a 1930s Dodge. The day is perfect, film crew lighting is hired to fill shadows on the car and people in the photo. Overall, a very expensive production. We have, classic house, classic car, models, lighting crew, likely.. commercial generator rental etc. You get the idea, big investment to make the photo.

So, this photo runs its course as an ad campaign photo and, the rights come back to the photographer in time. It becomes a popular stock photo, making several thousands of 1980 dollars every year for the photographer.

The owner of the Prepress company has built himself a new area to his business. Selling stock photos of images he has scanned for Prepress printing. But, the photos can't be EXACTLY THE SAME. He, knows this. And, this is before Photoshop. So, his methods were expensive but, used by his company daily.

Mr.Prepress moves a couple of palm trees a few feet and rotates the Dodge Logo on the car's hubcaps 90 or more degrees. Nothing more.

He began selling the photo as a stock photo, at a reduced rate, in competition with the photographer. The photographer sues the Prepress guy and a jury finds the photos are indeed different.. as per the trees and hubcaps. And, the Prepress guy wins.

This changed many things for local photographers. The first thing was, very few of our media clients used that prepress company. This really hurt his business, he hadn't planned on that. Next was, everyone watched for each others images being ripped off (I recently found one of Bill Allard's used and sent him a note).

So, small changes in an image are enough to make the image "different enough" for a "legal copy".

In the case with these "students", some, after making small changes in an image (adding or removing clouds is popular), file for a copyright on their new creation.

I'm not flattered..
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Old 04-17-2018   #194
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Sounds like a lot of time spent, especially if it was before Photoshop. And it is, to me, a waste of time on several fronts. Maybe it’s because I ran my business differently. I was by myself, hiring people on an “as need” basis.

When I was on the board of our PPA affiliate, I could tell, after asking some questions, who was successful or going to be successful and who wasn’t. I guess it can be compared to the old saying, “cream floats to the top.”

I wonder, as you describe real well, if that’s the best use of time?

For me, I only have 24 hours to each day and, as I live, especially at my age, each day is a greater percentage of what I’ve got left here on earth. I’m not into chasing down or worrying about what some one did or didn’t do with my photographs.

Even tho I’m retired I still stay pretty busy.

Thanks for posting the situation. Hope it worked out OK for whom ever was involved.

You have to do what you have to do.



Smiles.
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Old 04-17-2018   #195
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"I was by myself, hiring people on an “as need” basis."

Most of us are using that model in today's changed photo market.


I understand your position. I feel my time is very valuable too.

Best, pkr
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Old 04-17-2018   #196
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Thanks pkr.

Nice to chat with you.
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Old 04-17-2018   #197
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I've been building websites, creating images and writing code almost since the www was born. In that time I must have published tens of thousands of images and millions of lines of code. I'm more than happy for anyone to right click an image or the web page and use the media in their own projects. If that's a commercial project and they make money, then good for them. I've studied and used fragments of loads of other people's code over the years, particularly when I was learning different languages.

Share and share alike I say.
Soo, I suppose we know where those thousands of images came from

Seriously, I too been a developer for both web and desktop applications since... probably since 1995 and I'm aware (as you should be aware) that there are royalty free photos around and then photos that belong to someone. Where do you think agencies that sell image portfolios get their meals from?

Ken's photo clearly states its belongs to him (not royalty free), so no, its not free to share.

Like it was previously said, image was stolen. Use the right, ugly word for it. Ken didn't share it, it was taken from him.

I really hope you aren't the case, but unfortunately, those that preach the "Share and Share Alike" usually are those that share what they have stolen or taken from someone else, not what they themselves have produced.

Sorry, getting grumpy, getting my noon coffee.

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Old 04-17-2018   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FujiLove View Post
I've been building websites, creating images and writing code almost since the www was born. In that time I must have published tens of thousands of images and millions of lines of code. I'm more than happy for anyone to right click an image or the web page and use the media in their own projects. If that's a commercial project and they make money, then good for them. I've studied and used fragments of loads of other people's code over the years, particularly when I was learning different languages.

Share and share alike I say.
Soo, I suppose we know where those thousands of images came from

Seriously, I too been a developer for both web and desktop applications since... probably since 1995 and I'm aware (as you should be aware) that there are royalty free photos around and then photos that belong to someone. Where do you think agencies that sell image portfolios get their meals from?

Ken's photo clearly states its belongs to him (not royalty free), so no, its not free to share.

Like it was previously said, image was stolen. Use the right, ugly word for it. Ken didn't share it, it was taken from him.

I really hope you aren't the case, but unfortunately, those that preach the "Share and Share Alike" usually are those that share what they have stolen or taken from someone else, not what they themselves have produced.

Sorry, getting grumpy, getting my noon coffee.

Regards.

Marcelo
Yep, I agree.

The fact that he took the time to watermark the image shows that he saw value in it. And, was telling all who viewed it, who it belonged to.

Pretty simple to figure out, I think.
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Old 04-17-2018   #199
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I just remembered something of note, from my conversation with the young women I wrote about in frame #174

She demanded, not requested, that I put my images on a website so, she and her fellow students would have access to them.

Another kid wanted me to start a blog with an exchange option so, he and others could ask me technical questions. The phrase "You Have To" was used liberally in these demands.

I wrote the whole bunch off as crazy, until I found that this attitude was wide spread locally, and not just in my little photo world.
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Old 04-17-2018   #200
David Hughes
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Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
As the saying goes, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”

I consider it a compliment if someone copied a photograph I made.

It didn’t bother me. I had better things to do with my time like having potential client meetings amongst many other things to successfully run a business like I had.

It was fun for me. Smiles!
Hi,

It's difficult to agree, I'm afraid. Some tIime ago I discovered someone had scanned one of my books, put it on a DVD or CD and sold copies for USD 35 and from memory had sold about 200 of them. I had fun and games getting to him or her and stopping it and others who were passing it on for free.

And the scans are still out there somewhere and so I do a vague search from time to time to find them and deal with the so and sos. It's a chore I could do without and the rudeness of some of them has to be experienced to be believed.

Regards, David
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