Summicron-C 40mm Action
Old 11-01-2007   #1
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,436
Summicron-C 40mm Action

I remember my old minolta days, shooting with a 45mm f2 rokkor and getting great results. Especially in the out of focus transitions. It was magic. This is why I absolutely love my summarit-M, for its romantic rendition.
I quickly started desperately looking for a 40mm f2 Leitz or Minolta. I finally got the Leitz, some 3 months ago, and I have to say I'm not disapointed.

It's not about sharpness. It's something else... and I knew a rainy day was the perfect match for this lens.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #2
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,436
So guys, when are you going to buy this little cheap lens?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #3
ferider
Registered User
 
ferider's Avatar
 
ferider is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,224
Rokkor and sun-shine OK, too ?


Last edited by ferider : 11-02-2007 at 15:01.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #4
hans voralberg
Registered User
 
hans voralberg's Avatar
 
hans voralberg is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK & Hochiminh, Vietnam
Posts: 2,026
Following one on ebay, this one is bloody hard to find lol
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #5
espressogeek
Registered User
 
espressogeek is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 210
I sold R-D1 but I kept my Summi-C 40/2! I knew there would come a day when I returned and I didn't want to have to search for that lens all over again. I also kept my Canon 50/1.4 too!
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #6
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans voralberg
Following one on ebay, this one is bloody hard to find lol
Which one, the Minolta or the Leitz?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #7
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,436
Ferider, nice shot! What film?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #8
ferider
Registered User
 
ferider's Avatar
 
ferider is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,224
Thanks ! Reala 100.

Roland.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #9
hans voralberg
Registered User
 
hans voralberg's Avatar
 
hans voralberg is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK & Hochiminh, Vietnam
Posts: 2,026
The Leitz, just found one on Keh. Is there any relation between the two? They look awfully familiar to me Im new to the scene so details would be great ^^
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #10
MikeL
Go Fish
 
MikeL's Avatar
 
MikeL is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by NB23
So guys, when are you going to buy this little cheap lens?
Ned, if you hadn't posted the name of it in the title, it might still be cheap. It's threads like these that make them un-cheap! Next time tell everyone it's a 35mm version 4 Summicron. Threads can't increase the price of those much....
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #11
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeL
Ned, if you hadn't posted the name of it in the title, it might still be cheap. It's threads like these that make them un-cheap! Next time tell everyone it's a 35mm version 4 Summicron. Threads can't increase the price of those much....
Well, Mike, my Noctilux thread is doing bad so let's hope it drives the Noctilux prices down
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #12
PetarDima
Registered User
 
PetarDima's Avatar
 
PetarDima is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 41
Posts: 547



BESSA R2M, Minolta Rokkor 40mm
__________________
http://petardima.tumblr.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #13
ferider
Registered User
 
ferider's Avatar
 
ferider is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans voralberg
The Leitz, just found one on Keh. Is there any relation between the two? They look awfully familiar to me Im new to the scene so details would be great ^^
Hans, there are basically three lenses:

The Summicron-C, the CL Rokkor, and the CLE Rokkor.

The optical configurations are the same. They differ in coating and mechanics.
Some say the first two are single coated and the CLE Rokkor is multi-coated,
but there are indications that multi-coated Summicron Cs exists. Definitely,
the CLE Rokkor was multi-coated.

The CLE Rokkor has a straight focusing cam, while the Summicron and
CL Rokkor have a slanted cam. I find the CLE mechanics more similar
to the 35/2 (better IMO). The Summicron uses hard to find series 5.5
filters, the Rokkor 40.5mm. The CL Rokkor has serial nr. on the front ring,
the CLE Rokkor does not.

Best,

Roland.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #14
hans voralberg
Registered User
 
hans voralberg's Avatar
 
hans voralberg is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK & Hochiminh, Vietnam
Posts: 2,026
Sry for hijack the thread into a QA, but what is a focusing cam ? personal preference aside is the Leitz better in any aspect compare to the CL rokkor, cause i can only locate those 2.

P.s: ferider could you clear PM
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #15
ferider
Registered User
 
ferider's Avatar
 
ferider is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans voralberg
Sry for hijack the thread into a QA, but what is a focusing cam ? personal preference aside is the Leitz better in any aspect compare to the CL rokkor, cause i can only locate those 2.

P.s: ferider could you clear PM
Done.

"Focusing cam": der Ring auf der Rueckseite des Objektivs, der sich vor
und zurueck bewegt und dabei den Entfernungsmesser der Kamera beruehrt.

Gruss,

Roland.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #16
RHaroldP
Registered User
 
RHaroldP's Avatar
 
RHaroldP is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North Carolina
Age: 67
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by NB23
So guys, when are you going to buy this little cheap lens?

Great shot, great lens.

I already have one.

Richard
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #17
maddoc
... likes film.
 
maddoc's Avatar
 
maddoc is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 三鷹市
Age: 51
Posts: 7,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by NB23
Well, Mike, my Noctilux thread is doing bad so let's hope it drives the Noctilux prices down
I really hope so ....
__________________
- Gabor

flickr
pBase
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2007   #18
maddoc
... likes film.
 
maddoc's Avatar
 
maddoc is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 三鷹市
Age: 51
Posts: 7,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by NB23
So guys, when are you going to buy this little cheap lens?
After the Noctilux ....
__________________
- Gabor

flickr
pBase
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #19
moonwrack
Registered User
 
moonwrack's Avatar
 
moonwrack is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 33
When using a 40mm on an M-series, would you use the 35mm of 50mm frame lines?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #20
hans voralberg
Registered User
 
hans voralberg's Avatar
 
hans voralberg is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK & Hochiminh, Vietnam
Posts: 2,026
Somewhere in between ? Guesstimate ?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #21
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
 
Pherdinand's Avatar
 
Pherdinand is offline
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: by the river called the Gender
Age: 40
Posts: 7,700
Ned - do you really really think it's the lens that does it?
Now honestly. Really?
__________________
Happy New Year, Happy New Continent!
eye contact eye
My RFF Foolery
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #22
PetarDima
Registered User
 
PetarDima's Avatar
 
PetarDima is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 41
Posts: 547
I just developed one roll of Efke KB 400 * push for 1 f-stop, 15 min, 20 C in Microphen 1:1 ... new Minolta Rokkor shots will be soon
P.S. Anyone have photos with Rokkor 28mm ???
__________________
http://petardima.tumblr.com/

Last edited by PetarDima : 11-03-2007 at 03:32.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #23
hans voralberg
Registered User
 
hans voralberg's Avatar
 
hans voralberg is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK & Hochiminh, Vietnam
Posts: 2,026
ah lovely Im pondering between this and Harris 35mm skopa
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #24
EmilGil
Registered User
 
EmilGil is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Age: 36
Posts: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonwrack
When using a 40mm on an M-series, would you use the 35mm of 50mm frame lines?
When I checked my M6TTL + 40mm Summicron-C, it was an almost perfect match with the 35mm frames on distances over a few meters. Closer than 3m or so, you need to frame a bit tighter (but not anywhere as tight as the 50mm frame). Making the 35mm frame show up instead of the 50mm one is pretty simple, just take out a file and remove about 1mm from a flange on the back of the lens.

BTW, this thread reminds me that I need to send my 40mm for a CLA as the focusing ring is very stiff...
__________________
My Photo blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #25
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
 
Pherdinand's Avatar
 
Pherdinand is offline
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: by the river called the Gender
Age: 40
Posts: 7,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilGil
Making the 35mm frame show up instead of the 50mm one is pretty simple, just take out a file and remove about 1mm from a flange on the back of the lens.

BTW, this thread reminds me that I need to send my 40mm for a CLA as the focusing ring is very stiff...
LOL, maybe because of all the filed-off brass dust falling into the focus helicoid?
__________________
Happy New Year, Happy New Continent!
eye contact eye
My RFF Foolery
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #26
EmilGil
Registered User
 
EmilGil is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Age: 36
Posts: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pherdinand
LOL, maybe because of all the filed-off brass dust falling into the focus helicoid?
If it only was that simple, my lens isn't modified!

I intend to have it done when I send it to be CLA'd.
__________________
My Photo blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #27
foto_fool
Registered User
 
foto_fool is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilGil
...I need to send my 40mm for a CLA as the focusing ring is very stiff...
Tight focus ring was a characteristic of the Summicron-C right out of the box. Has anyone else sent theirs to Sherry or Don for this issue? Results?

BTW Ned - great picture. Enough to get me to re-consider selling mine ( just kidding, Roland!) Anyway, it is the shooter as much as the lens.

- John
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2007   #28
ferider
Registered User
 
ferider's Avatar
 
ferider is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 11,224
....Enough to get me to re-consider selling mine ( just kidding, Roland!) ...

  Reply With Quote

Old 11-04-2007   #29
palec
Registered User
 
palec's Avatar
 
palec is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by PetarDima
P.S. Anyone have photos with Rokkor 28mm ???
Rokkor 28mm with white spots:


Back to topic, here's Summicron 40mm:
__________________
flickr photostream
  Reply With Quote

great shots
Old 11-04-2007   #30
borismach
Registered User
 
borismach's Avatar
 
borismach is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 132
great shots

Really great shots! I thought the white spots usually developed on this lens will be harmful to itd optical performance. How come there looks no impact on your photos...amazing!

:-)bm
Quote:
Back to topic, here's Summicron 40mm:
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-04-2007   #31
borismach
Registered User
 
borismach's Avatar
 
borismach is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 132
I just got a Leitz Minolta CL set, with a Germany 40/2 Summicron-C for a few days. Just finished a roll of color neg and have it developed/printed. I find it really sharp...however the red color is a bit exaggerated. Overall it is an excellant lens.

Need to examine more on this lens.

Cheerz-bm
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-04-2007   #32
palec
Registered User
 
palec's Avatar
 
palec is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by borismach
Really great shots! I thought the white spots ussually developed on this lens will be harmful to itd optical performance. How come there looks no impact on your photos...amazing!

:-)bm
Of those two only the first photo is made with 28mm Rokkor, second is 40mm Summicron. The white spots (more precisely said small bubbles between elements) have impact on performance because of flare problem. If you can evade unsuitable light conditions, you can have nice lens for bargain price. Especially if you like the rough look:

Neopan 400 pushed to 3200 helped, too, of course.
__________________
flickr photostream
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-04-2007   #33
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
 
Palaeoboy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 632
Quote:
Tight focus ring was a characteristic of the Summicron-C right out of the box.
Yes this is true, I have handled many 40mm Summicrons and they all were very firm with their focus. If you prefer a lighter focus I have found the CLE Rokkors to be very light, it most likely has to do with the different cam designs.

Quote:
The white spots (more precisely said small bubbles between elements)
Sorry but this is simply not true. The front glass of the Rokkor 28 is a single element. It does not touch any other elements so cannot be bubbling between elements. The spots start to form on the black paint covered edges of that front element. Because this is not in the optical path it doesn't effect image quality. When the white spots, which I believe to be crystal leaching out of the black paint, find their way on to the rear of the front element it will begin to impact on optical quality.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-04-2007   #34
palec
Registered User
 
palec's Avatar
 
palec is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaeoboy
Sorry but this is simply not true. The front glass of the Rokkor 28 is a single element. It does not touch any other elements so cannot be bubbling between elements. The spots start to form on the black paint covered edges of that front element. Because this is not in the optical path it doesn't effect image quality. When the white spots, which I believe to be crystal leaching out of the black paint, find their way on to the rear of the front element it will begin to impact on optical quality.
I haven't seen the lens disassembled only read about this issue - often mentioned as element separation. What I can confirm is that under first glass are small particles which look like bubbles, so you're probably right. i just wonder, why they look sheer if their origin is in black/white paint. Could be these are crystals from glue balsam?
__________________
flickr photostream
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-04-2007   #35
varjag
Eugene Zaikonnikov
 
varjag's Avatar
 
varjag is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Age: 40
Posts: 2,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palaeoboy
Sorry but this is simply not true. The front glass of the Rokkor 28 is a single element. It does not touch any other elements so cannot be bubbling between elements. The spots start to form on the black paint covered edges of that front element. Because this is not in the optical path it doesn't effect image quality. When the white spots, which I believe to be crystal leaching out of the black paint, find their way on to the rear of the front element it will begin to impact on optical quality.
The "white spots" are sign of separating lens elements in the front group. Normally they are glued together with Canadian balsam (or synthetic substitute), which can deteriorate with time.
__________________
Eugene

My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-06-2007   #36
PetarDima
Registered User
 
PetarDima's Avatar
 
PetarDima is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 41
Posts: 547
Here we go! New shots with EFKE KB 400 ( pushed + 1 f-stop, 15 min in Microphen 1:1, 20 C, agitation 5sec. - every 30 sec. ). As usual, I have many
shots underexposed, funny many shots could be done with ISO 100, but I used
this film for hard test: daylight, night, low light. I must say again: I love this extra
sharp lens, but I need something wider - I think that some street shots just ask for
wide and close-up shooting! ... and EFKE, Efke is old school film, pure sadness

All photos are without corrections, only resized.
Cheers, Vlad.






















__________________
http://petardima.tumblr.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #37
varjag
Eugene Zaikonnikov
 
varjag's Avatar
 
varjag is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bergen, Norway
Age: 40
Posts: 2,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by varjag
The "white spots" are sign of separating lens elements in the front group. Normally they are glued together with Canadian balsam (or synthetic substitute), which can deteriorate with time.
After some more research, it appears there are 3 theories about the spots: separation, crystalline growth or coating defect. Hard to tell which one is correct without taking a lens apart..
__________________
Eugene

My Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #38
NB23
-
 
NB23's Avatar
 
NB23 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Inside a Noctilux
Posts: 1,436
Good stuff, Petar!
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #39
PetarDima
Registered User
 
PetarDima's Avatar
 
PetarDima is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bor, Serbia
Age: 41
Posts: 547
Thank you, I've tried to do my best
__________________
http://petardima.tumblr.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-07-2007   #40
Palaeoboy
Joel Matherson
 
Palaeoboy is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 632
Quote:
The "white spots" are sign of separating lens elements in the front group. Normally they are glued together with Canadian balsam (or synthetic substitute), which can deteriorate with time.

After some more research, it appears there are 3 theories about the spots: separation, crystalline growth or coating defect. Hard to tell which one is correct without taking a lens apart..
As mentioned in my earlier post its impossible for it to be lens separation and deterioration of some cement or balsam as the front group only consists of only one element. (Please see attached lens diagram)

Quote:
I haven't seen the lens disassembled only read about this issue - often mentioned as element separation. What I can confirm is that under first glass are small particles which look like bubbles, so you're probably right. i just wonder, why they look sheer if their origin is in black/white paint. Could be these are crystals from glue balsam?
The white spots start at the rim of the lens not in the optical path where it is coated in black paint to reduce internal refections. At this stage it appears as a ring of while spots. (You can see the flat sides in the lens diagram where the white spots begin.) The fact that it starts here at the sides means it cannot be a coating flaw (for only the spherical/optical side are coated) or glue from elements glued together as there are no other elements.

The crystal theory is the only valid one. The crystals leach out of black paint and begin to form around the edges. If not cleaned and allowed to continue they become so abundant they dislodge from the edges and find their way onto the inner surface of the front element. At this point they can etch into the coating. (this is where the faulty coating myth comes from) At this stage it does effect image quality and is irreversible in its damage.

The last myth with regards to the white spots is that if it hasn't happened now it never will. Not true either. One 28mm Rokkor I had only last year that showed no white spots at all and I took it out on a very hot Australian summer day, by the time I got home there was a ring of the white spots, clearly leached out by excessive heat. So keep those 28mm Rokkors cool boys and girls especially if you have only one or 2 spots appearing. If it hasn't progressed to the lens surface get the edge of the front element cleaned and repainted.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 28mmRokkorDiagram.jpg (15.2 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by Palaeoboy : 11-07-2007 at 08:29.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 00:43.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.