fuji xpro-1 from m6 users?
Old 04-22-2015   #1
hrryxgg
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fuji xpro-1 from m6 users?

so i am thinking of buying the fuji.

how would the overall camera experience differ from using the m6? i have never owned a digital before.

is autofocus a big thing?

i have a lecia 28mm asph; would this a great lens to use on this camera vs the fuji glass?

thanks!
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Old 04-22-2015   #2
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they're not rangefinders. they're digital cameras with window finders. it's a different experience from the leica.

i've had a couple of fujis. i love the rendering of the sensor in raw. love. i've tried to use legacy lenses on them and have had mixed success. it's not as intuitive as the leica. seriously, i'd get one of the very excellent fuji lenses and yes auto focus is a big deal if you're older. the thing is, they hunt. they're not sports quality canon dslr fast. they're fine for 80 or 90 pct of your shooting unless you shoot a lot in low/no light, which i do. while there's not exactly focus lag, there is viewfinder refresh lag. i'm waiting for the xpro 2, and then i'll see.
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Old 04-22-2015   #3
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Not an impressive camera...half frame, poor af, big, so so quality...

If you buy one don´t you sell your m6 you´ll need it soon
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Old 04-22-2015   #4
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I 've never held an X-pro in my hands.

But I do have an XE2. Compared to the Nikon D3100, it's the best camera ever. I use it in manual focus (to save batteries), often playing on the hyper focal, it gives lovely raw files, black and white is a pleasure when you can filter colours in post processing, controls are more or less in the right places - my nose hits the AE button when shooting verticals - all around a very nice camera that allows me to shoot as if film cost pennies : a lot.

Compared to the Leica M3 and M2, the EVF isn't an optical viewfinder. buttons buttons buttons, some of which you can configure, but you still have to learn them, and some are too deep in the menus.

I set it to aperture priority, manual focus, EVF + eye-sensor, preview off, black&white Raw+JPEG.
With the kit zoom, it would be nice to have the aperture markings on the barrel, but having them in the viewfinder works, and the depth-of-field scale, though conservative, helps.
But you don't see the shot until after you have taken it. Withe a leica you can have a pretty good idea of what happened at the moment the shutter went off; with the EVF, it's hope and anticipation. The Xpro would be better at that, but I read it's EVF isn't as good, and you need the EVF to focus manually on a camera like this.

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Old 04-22-2015   #5
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Well I went the Fuji route from Leica Film M's. All I can say is that they are very nice. Color Jpeg's rendered beautifully. But they are not rangefinders. Always felt a bit of a kluge. Thank you Fuji getting me into digital. My M9 rocks.
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Old 04-22-2015   #6
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I had a couple of Leicas in my rather distant youth and was using DSLR when the Fuji X-100 was released. The day after I handled one I bought one. Just raising the optical VF to the eye was like going home.

No it's not a rangefinder but the optical VF is close and the heft of the camera in hand is wonderful.

Later on I also bought an XPro-1 with some Fuji lenses and it was less delightful but still shares a lot with RF cameras. You also have the electronic VF which I use for tricky composition but the joy remains the OVF.

Maybe get one of the very special deals with 2 lenses. In the UK that seems to include the 27mm lens which is pretty much my standard on it although I have the 18/35/60.

In short handle an X-100 then an X-Pro with the 27mm lens on it and see if you fall in love
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Old 04-23-2015   #7
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I came from a couple of M6 bodies, through the M8 and M9 to the XPro1. The biggest issue you'll have to get used to is the fact its digital - forget about form and layout for now, its buttons and menus that will be the biggest change/headache but that is pretty much the same regardless of which digital you go for.

If you want 'pure' Leica feel then a Leica digital would be the best (though most expensive) way to go IMO, but, people will argue over whether or not a digital Leica will give you any real sense of the old M6 or not. The XPro1 will give you a modern and very smart digital camera which offers you a myriad of set-ups and ways of working. The usual gripes about not being full frame, sluggish AF when compared with the latest top end CaNikon and seemingly bottomless Fuji menus all hold enough truth but equally can all be overcome or ignored for most users, perhaps the FF aspect aside as whether full frame or half frame is good enough is another personal decision.

Personally I love the system, or more accurately its incredible flexibility. I can set it up to be a 'kind of' M6 with manual focus, OVF and manual controls and quickly switch over to AF, EVF, AE (and any number of other letter combinations) and spot metering if I need to. The lenses are very impressive and the whole system is very well price pointed compared to Leica ( I bought two XP1 bodies, the 18mm f2 and the 35mm 1.4 plus had the 18-55mm zoom all for the money I got when I sold my M9 body.) Whether that is an issue for you or not is obviously your question to answer.

What camera suits each photographer is such a personal thing that the opinions of others will only get you so far. That goes double for digital too for me due to the extra menus and 'whizz-bangs' you seem to get, its a little like which smartphone system you prefer, Apple's iOS or Samsung. I'd suggest hiring/borrowing one and using it for a week so you give the camera a fair crack before making a final decision.

Finally, you have to embrace digital for what it is and what it can offer and not compare it to film if you're going to work with it. The two are different and have different strengths and weaknesses and this needs to be accepted when making a decision on what camera body to go with. It will be a big change which is why, if you can, you may want to keep the M6 as well so that you can always have a little film fun from time to time. I sold out of film completely only to come back as its so enjoyable in its own right - the two being different as I said.

Good luck
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Old 04-23-2015   #8
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I haven't used the 28mm asph on a fuji, but I can tell you with near certainty it won't perform as well as the native glass since wide RF lenses rarely do well on the fuji bodies. If you're set on using the 28mm or exclusively using manual focus lenses I would recommend the X-E2 or X-T1 over the X-Pro since those cameras have better manual focussing aids and the lack of OVF won't matter since it won't be much use with MF lenses.

The good news about the system is the lenses are outstanding and the files are great. Its true it's "half frame", but it can still goes toe to toe with last generation full frame cameras and is more than adequate for most professional applications. Great layout - marked dials, you only need to menu dive when you want to. The X-Pro1 OVF is nice, and the general feel of the camera is very good. It doesn't have the purposeful density of a Leica M but on the other hand it is lighter. In my experience fujis are pretty robust as well; my X-E1 has worn down to the magnesium on all corners, has been dropped, kicked, rained on, you name it, still works alright. Has tolerated more abuse than some film cameras I've had.

The bad news is that the AF is really rubbish compared to nearly anything else. Like the others say I'd see if you can try one out and see if you like it first.
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Old 04-23-2015   #9
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I just bought another X-Pro1 having missed my original more than I would have thought. I have a full complement of Nikon FF gear, but I still missed the intimate connection that I have with the XP1. All the negative AF comments may be from people who just read about it or who experienced the early iterations before firmware upgrades or who have expectations conditioned by DSLRs. The AF will be fast enough for your work unless you do non-typical shooting. It is also very accurate, something DSLRs are not always. Yes, autofocus is a big thing. It is much faster than aligning images in the Leica viewfinder.

IQ is exceptional. I'm an ex Leica shooter and always will be since Fuji came on the scene.
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Old 04-23-2015   #10
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i had and loved the original x100 because of the ovf with overlay. that only works with fuji lenses/af. so i was disappointed in the xp1 when i used it with legacy rf glass. however, the xt1 has a digital focusing aid akin to split screen slr finders. i know some previous models were given this option via firmware update. does anyone know if the xp1 got that update? if it did, that might help bring the mf experience a little more in line with rf experience.

on the other hand a real digital rf like the epson rd1 can be had for less than $800 and the leica m8 can now be had for not much more than $1000. i got the rd1 after i sold the xp1 because i was after the same experience you are. i got it with the rd1, and unless youre printing huge, the IQ is beautiful and more film like than amything else you can buy. and it has a 1:1 finder--better than the .85 of the m6.
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Old 04-23-2015   #11
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I've had an XE-1 for several years and love it. I only shoot legacy, manual focus lenses, from Olympus Pen-F 24MM (works great), through a lot of Canon and Leica LTM lenses. I like a 35mm lens best.
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Old 04-23-2015   #12
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Not sure how old you are, but did you ever try the (Kyocera) Contax G1 & G2 (1990s-early 2000s)? Those were the closest film predecessors to the Fuji X-Pro1, not the Leica M series. To me, the X-Pro1 is a digital G2 w/improved VF (& live view/EVF capability).

Autofocus is not a big thing, sometimes it's faster/more convenient than RF focusing, sometimes not. Unlike the old G2, you can immediately review a shot to see if you nailed the focus while using the optical VF, but you obviously still don't get realtime visual confirmation of focus (unless you switch to live view or EVF).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrryxgg View Post
so i am thinking of buying the fuji.

how would the overall camera experience differ from using the m6? i have never owned a digital before.

is autofocus a big thing?

i have a lecia 28mm asph; would this a great lens to use on this camera vs the fuji glass?

thanks!
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Old 04-23-2015   #13
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I never intended to end up with an X Pro-1, but I did anyway. Not as a substitute for my SLR system, because it isn't. Not as a cheap digital window-finder way of using my M-mount lenses, because for me things don't work that way. Quite expensively, I bought, and use, and love(!) my M type 240 for that. All the things I learned to love about RF photography work for me with my digital M, and most don't with my X Pro-1.

But one thing does. RF cameras taught me to like to photograph with a window finder, with everything in focus and framelines showing you things outside the frame - then choosing what to exclude by guessing a bit through framing and aperture selection. As opposed to an SLR's TTL framing and widest aperture view, where you have to imagine what you're including rather than excluding. I like both ways of seeing, and like to have the choice between the two, depending on subject and mood and, well, whatever takes my fancy on any given day.

The X Pro-1 allows me to have a window finder with more-or-less OK focus control through the 28mm-90mm(equiv) range with zoom lens for casual shooting and a 50mm(equiv; via their excellent 35/1.4 lens) for slightly more serious work. With the added bonus that the Fuji kit lens is of better optical quality than the Canikon kit SLR equivalents while being more compact than high-optical-quality SLR lenses (eg. my EF-S 17-55f2.8IS lens).

I've found the X Pro-1 to be an excellent take-everywhere and take-everywhen (especially when drinking) camera that's (a) capable; (b) not so expensive I worry over-much about it; and (c) portable. And one which gives me a way of framing that leads me to take different shots than I might take with an apparently-similarly-equiped SLR. (With SLRs I tend, to my mind, to be too "subject focused" and to concern myself less than I sometimes should with positioning the subject within the environment.)

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Old 04-23-2015   #14
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i started my migration from leica M with fuji, now using an xt1 with a couple of zooms and a couple primes. i was leery at first, holding fast to manual focus and the overall rangefinder/M gestalt. but after roughly a year, i feel converted. the AF, while not dSLR quick to lock, is quite workable, even for my club shooting. i like the files a lot, finding them very malleable, significantly more so than those from either my dSLRs or my M9, but a little wanting in certain areas like foliage. the lenses are delightful, and great value compared to zeiss and leica M.

sorry, can't speak to the xp1 as i don't have any real experience with one. but i would say generally that fuji's mirrorless gear offers an impressive system- and support-based alternative, both to M digital and other mirrorless platforms. if you buy used and find it's not your thing, you can resell without much pain. give yourself some time with it, to sort through the very un-film-leica-like maze of menu choices, buttons, and wheels. once you find your own way to operate the camera fluidly, and you most likely will, then make your choice to stay or go.
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Old 04-23-2015   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furcafe View Post
Not sure how old you are, but did you ever try the (Kyocera) Contax G1 & G2 (1990s-early 2000s)? Those were the closest film predecessors to the Fuji X-Pro1, not the Leica M series. To me, the X-Pro1 is a digital G2 w/improved VF (& live view/EVF capability).

Autofocus is not a big thing, sometimes it's faster/more convenient than RF focusing, sometimes not. Unlike the old G2, you can immediately review a shot to see if you nailed the focus while using the optical VF, but you obviously still don't get realtime visual confirmation of focus (unless you switch to live view or EVF).
^^^+++
I really, really, like my Contax G2 and a great many of the things I like about the X Pro-1 align with that and with what you've said. The only downside there is I don't have the 35-70 zoom that works with the G2. You may have ignited some GAS, as that might make me like my G2 even more. Though perhaps not: I like the Planar 45/2 so much that I find it hard to change it out for the 28 or 90 I also have. Would I really like it better or use it more with the zoom? I'm not sure. I like the 35 on the X Pro-1 a lot yet probably use the 18-55 more. Hmmm...

...Mike
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Old 04-23-2015   #16
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Another vote for the XPro! and a Native lens. My recommendation would be the 18/2. Get the M adapter while you are at it as the Leica lenses work rather well on it in my experience. Particularly if you want to manual focus as the Fuji lenses suck at that. I use the smallest focus area in the center and do the half shutter thing to re-compose. Takes some getting used to even for a guy who came from digital to the Fuji.
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Old 04-23-2015   #17
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Ditto on the G1/2 comments. The XP is much more akin to them -and even better with a finder that can confirm focus visually and not by reference. I own M film cameras and other digitals, but the XP is so capable that it would have to be the keeper if given an ultimatum. I love walking around town with the 27 and then popping the excellent 55-200 on for a quick trip to the zoo.
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Old 04-23-2015   #18
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As a M6 user you are in a good position to adapt to the X-Pro 1 compared to a long-time DSLR user.

You will not have to adapt to a new menu system or control layout. You do not expect to use a spray and pray workflow. You will appreciate the IQ available at EV 4 to 5 light levels. The AF system can be operated manually.

The general adjustment from film to digital will be the same as it would be for just about any brand.

The X-Pro 1 OVF works best with Fujinon lenses. I suggest you start out with the 27/2.8 pancake lens. It focuses quickly and produces excellent results. However, this is one of the few X series lenses that does not have an aperture ring so f stop is selected using a thumb wheel. The 35/1.4 XF lens would be my second choice in your circumstance. However a new, smaller, slower 35 mm lens will ship sometime I'm the next 12 months. The 18/2 XF lens is a great reportage lens if you like to work at that field of view.

Many people here will answer any questions or issues that may arise. For instance, be certain to upgrade the body/lens to the newest firmware. There are several user guides available on Amazon and elsewhere. There will be a leaning curve to climb.

PM me for other on-line resources that could be extremely helpful.
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