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Sell Gear to buy a M9? Help
Old 11-23-2019   #1
LeicaFoReVer
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Sell Gear to buy a M9? Help

I realized I accumulated a lot of gears and diverted from photography a lot. I also had issues with G2 so I decided to go back to mechanical system I already have M6. I didn't use much since I bought G2 but after having the issues and the lack of services for those systems I plan to sell most of the gears and have a simple inventory. Also by simplifying I will get some cash so I plan to give a try to M digital system which I avoided mainly due to prices. So I plan to sell following:

Contax G 28mm + 45mm
Contax G2 (after having it fixed by the only service left in Turkey (still he is checking so don't know how much it will cost)
C/Y mount Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM4 + 35mm f2
Canon ltm 50mm f1.4

According to my calculations, above will ve enough for a M9 also if I sell my sony nex and ltm elmar f2.8 I can afford for a ZM 50mm f2 (because I loved how 45mm renders, I plan to have similar ZM). So my simplyfied list of equipment will be:

Leica M6 and M9 if I buy
Canon Ltm 50mm f1.2
Leica iiif
Jupiter-12 35mm f2.8
35mm f2.5 color skopar
Zm 50mm planar if I buy
What do you think?
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Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM
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Contax G2 + 45mm & 28mm
Contax RX + Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
Fed 3 + jupiter-12
Sony NEX 7


websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
http://flickriver.com/photos/2851236...r-interesting/
http://sites.google.com/site/aykutphoto/Home
http://aykutkaraca.webs.com
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Old 11-23-2019   #2
jsrockit
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Looks like a good plan to me...and those Contax G2 cameras have gone up a lot in price now. Why not the M240 though?
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Old 11-23-2019   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Looks like a good plan to me...and those Contax G2 cameras have gone up a lot in price now. Why not the M240 though?
What is the difference? Since never dreamed of digital M, I never followed the technology so I am lame on the digital M series. Also there is M9 at KEH with original sensor for 1800$ aince I came up with this idea. Are all the sensors of M9 prone to corrosion? Would Leica change it for free even though it is second hand?

Edit: checked out the m240, 100g heavier, enough for me to say no. And it is probably more expensive.
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Leica M6 TTL x.72
Leica iiif
Leica Elmar-M 5cm f2.8 (rare early version)
Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM
Voightlander Color Skopar PII 35mm f2.5
Contax G2 + 45mm & 28mm
Contax RX + Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
Fed 3 + jupiter-12
Sony NEX 7


websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
http://flickriver.com/photos/2851236...r-interesting/
http://sites.google.com/site/aykutphoto/Home
http://aykutkaraca.webs.com
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Old 11-23-2019   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
What is the difference? Since never dreamed of digital M, I never followed the technology so I am lame on the digital M series. Also there is M9 at KEH with original sensor for 1800$ aince I came up with this idea. Are all the sensors of M9 prone to corrosion? Would Leica change it for free even though it is second hand?
Different style of sensor... more modern sensor with high ISO abilities.

Quote:
Edit: checked out the m240, 100g heavier, enough for me to say no. And it is probably more expensive.
Ok.
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Old 11-23-2019   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
What is the difference? Since never dreamed of digital M, I never followed the technology so I am lame on the digital M series. Also there is M9 at KEH with original sensor for 1800$ aince I came up with this idea. Are all the sensors of M9 prone to corrosion? Would Leica change it for free even though it is second hand?

Edit: checked out the m240, 100g heavier, enough for me to say no. And it is probably more expensive.
All the original m9 sensors are prone to corrosion. Leica no longer repairs them for free, it is an expensive bill now. If you are looking at M9s get one with an upgraded sensor.

As far as the M240 it should be more responsive, have much better battery life, better higher ISO capabilities and it has liveview and the possibility of using an EVF. That can be useful for checking the RF focus of a lens and also handy if you want to shoot wide or macro. They don't have the sensor problems of the M9.

Cost wise the M240 is around the same price as a sensor replaced M9 at this point.

Shawn
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Old 11-23-2019   #6
Ko.Fe.
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Do not buy any of M9 series cameras with original sensor without accommodating of at least 1600 usd for sensor change in near future.
With m9 you will get batteries which will lasts only couple of hours if it is cold.
M240 is heavier for good reason it has much better battery. It is also weather sealed, none of M9 series are.
The only reason I got M-E in 2016 was because it was new, with warranty. Once in a life chance. But. Once I started to use it, corrosion developed within one year and I have to send to Leica which has longest customer service in industry.
Check recent thread about how many M9 needs new sensor. It is not even lottery. It is fact.
Here is no huge difference between M9 with new sensor and better made M240 on used market.
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Old 11-23-2019   #7
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I'm always supportive of selling a bunch of gear and consolidating. The less you focus on gear and the more you can focus on shooting the better.

If you have opportunity, see if you can handle an M9 and an M240. The extra bulk might be the difference between taking it with you and leaving it home. Or it might not bother you at all.

Personally as an M9 owner, I wouldn't consider an M240. I like the images from my M9 too much. I've never had an issue with the ISO limitations. I have had sensor issues that Leica has fixed for free which was annoying because I was without my camera for several months. But even so, to me it's about the images. It's the only digital camera I've ever really loved. Images need very little post processing to look the way I want.
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Old 11-23-2019   #8
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An M typ 240 is a much better camera than an M9 for many reasons. Most of the weight difference is the bigger, much more robust battery... a major plus. In the hand, I never noticed that it was heavier.

The M typ 240 has a better sensor, is much more responsive, is weather sealed, and has the ability to provide a Live View as well as use an EVF for expanded versatility. Amongst other things.

No M9 with original sensor is a safe purchase: they will all eventually need a new sensor. The 'free replacement' program for M9 sensors ended two years ago; it's now a fairly expensive service call. Only buy an M9 with an upgraded sensor ... They're not a lot cheaper, if cheaper at all, than an M typ 240.

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Old 11-23-2019   #9
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You might think twice about selling the 50mm Elmar. You might want it back!
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Old 11-23-2019   #10
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The film gear you are selling is going up in value, while the M9 (after enjoying a brief moment of higher prices) is falling, falling, and will continue to fall.

I was ecstatic to get someone to trade his Widelux + cash for my M9 last year and have shot more with that camera than I ever did with my M9.

Bad idea, IMO. Long live film!
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Old 11-23-2019   #11
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In my opinion, the cheapest and the best digital Leica is Ricoh GXR mount A12, with LCD viewfinder VF-2.

Moreover, you can fully collapse your Leica Elmar-M 5cm f2.8 (rare early version) - do not sell it!




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Old 11-23-2019   #12
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Personally. I would not buy an original sensor M9 for more than $800USD. The sensor will corrode. You will have to fix it, or toss it. Current service estimate from Leica is about $1600USD. You will need to consider this fact when buying an original-sensor M9.
My personal opinion, of course . Others may feel differently....
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Old 11-23-2019   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
The film gear you are selling is going up in value, while the M9 (after enjoying a brief moment of higher prices) is falling, falling, and will continue to fall.
While this is true... it is never a bad idea to buy what is better for what you want to accomplish with your photography.
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Old 11-23-2019   #14
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Thank you all. I didn't know those facts about M9 sensor. I suppose the the ones with replaced sensor goes above 2000$?
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Leica iiif
Leica Elmar-M 5cm f2.8 (rare early version)
Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM
Voightlander Color Skopar PII 35mm f2.5
Contax G2 + 45mm & 28mm
Contax RX + Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
Fed 3 + jupiter-12
Sony NEX 7


websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
http://flickriver.com/photos/2851236...r-interesting/
http://sites.google.com/site/aykutphoto/Home
http://aykutkaraca.webs.com
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Old 11-23-2019   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotur View Post
In my opinion, the cheapest and the best digital Leica is Ricoh GXR mount A12, with LCD viewfinder VF-2.

Moreover, you can fully collapse your Leica Elmar-M 5cm f2.8 (rare early version) - do not sell it!



I will think again thanks, however the focus turning while changing aperture makes me use it less. I like the images from it though.
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Leica M6 TTL x.72
Leica iiif
Leica Elmar-M 5cm f2.8 (rare early version)
Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM
Voightlander Color Skopar PII 35mm f2.5
Contax G2 + 45mm & 28mm
Contax RX + Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
Fed 3 + jupiter-12
Sony NEX 7


websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
http://flickriver.com/photos/2851236...r-interesting/
http://sites.google.com/site/aykutphoto/Home
http://aykutkaraca.webs.com
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Sell Gears to buy a M9? Help
Old 11-23-2019   #16
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Sell Gears to buy a M9? Help

KEH.com has 12pc off sale this weekend.

M9 with sensor replaced is $2373USD before 12pc discount.

https://www.keh.com/shop/leica-m9-bl...updated-1.html

That is a good choice due to return policy and warranty, if the price works for you.


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Old 11-23-2019   #17
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12pc off code is GO11E



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Old 11-23-2019   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
While this is true... it is never a bad idea to buy what is better for what you want to accomplish with your photography.
It is current truth. Once Leica will stop supporting film M (it will happen sooner or later) it will become just another mossy fim gear, which is sold for less and less.

Plus, it is anti-photography to treat cameras as "investment".
Cameras are for taking of images, not for sitting on them and watching their prices. And any digital camera including quirky M9 is more convenient and often more reliable than film cameras.

"Do not sell this lens because it is somewhat different from others on exterior" is also questionable. Especially for 50mm lens.
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Old 11-23-2019   #19
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KEH discounts rarely apply to Leica products though. The current one doesn't.

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Old 11-23-2019   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
I will think again thanks, however the focus turning while changing aperture makes me use it less. I like the images from it though.
Depending upon how you shoot this is less of an issue on a digital Leica since you are gaining aperture priority metering as well as the potential to use auto ISO so the camera will adjust to your given aperture/shutter speeds.

The Elmar is nice to make the camera more compact when carrying it.

Shawn
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Old 11-23-2019   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
I will think again thanks, however the focus turning while changing aperture makes me use it less. I like the images from it though.

Adjust the aperture first then release the focus lock and use the RF.


Regards, David


PS I think your plan is OK. Ask to see the letter from Leica saying that the sensor has been changed.
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Old 11-23-2019   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
It is current truth. Once Leica will stop supporting film M (it will happen sooner or later) it will become just another mossy fim gear, which is sold for less and less.

Plus, it is anti-photography to treat cameras as "investment".
Cameras are for taking of images, not for sitting on them and watching their prices. And any digital camera including quirky M9 is more convenient and often more reliable than film cameras.
I agree completely.
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Old 11-23-2019   #23
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Yes keh doesn't apply this code to that item but anyways I need to wait until I sell all. It started to seem a bad idea anyway as still would force my budget. I started thinking this when I saw the M9 with 1800$ price tag with original sensor. Anything above that price can force the budget. Not impossible but, will have to wait. I still think that I need to sell all, at least to get ZM lens (or more ZM lenses if I dont buy a digital full frame M) to downsize to the M6 and leica iiif

p.s. I strongly believe that film Leica is still the most reliable for the long run, more than Contax G or Oly OM4 (maybe I can have fully mechanical OM body and keep 35 f2 as I like that lens and system too)
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Leica M6 TTL x.72
Leica iiif
Leica Elmar-M 5cm f2.8 (rare early version)
Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM
Voightlander Color Skopar PII 35mm f2.5
Contax G2 + 45mm & 28mm
Contax RX + Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
Fed 3 + jupiter-12
Sony NEX 7


websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
http://flickriver.com/photos/2851236...r-interesting/
http://sites.google.com/site/aykutphoto/Home
http://aykutkaraca.webs.com
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Old 11-23-2019   #24
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Some cameras are financial investments.

World’s Most Expensive Camera Sells for $2.8 Million at Auction: The 1923 Prototype Leica O-series was one of only 25 ever produced.
https://www.popphoto.com/news/2012/0...llion-auction/

And, well, all cameras that you're going to use are investments in your hobby or business.
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Old 11-23-2019   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
Snip ... I strongly believe that film Leica is still the most reliable for the long run, more than Contax G or Oly OM4 (maybe I can have fully mechanical OM body and keep 35 f2 as I like that lens and system too)
I see the M6 as the best long term Leica camera with a meter.

There are a lot of OM cameras a lot cheaper than the OM-4 and they are all good. In my part of the world the OM10 (even with the manual adapter) is dirt cheap and the OM-1's and the OM-2's are a bargain. If you need a camera that takes macro lenses then the OM's are a good idea.

Regards, David
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Old 11-24-2019   #26
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Thank you guys all. Will follow classifieds here too. Maybe an M9 with replaced sensor can fall here with 2k price tag.
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Leica M6 TTL x.72
Leica iiif
Leica Elmar-M 5cm f2.8 (rare early version)
Canon 50mm f/1.2 LTM
Voightlander Color Skopar PII 35mm f2.5
Contax G2 + 45mm & 28mm
Contax RX + Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
Fed 3 + jupiter-12
Sony NEX 7


websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
http://flickriver.com/photos/2851236...r-interesting/
http://sites.google.com/site/aykutphoto/Home
http://aykutkaraca.webs.com
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Old 11-24-2019   #27
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While this is true... it is never a bad idea to buy what is better for what you want to accomplish with your photography.
Convenience also doesn't equal better photographs...and often leads to the opposite. IMO.
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Old 11-24-2019   #28
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The prices of the M240 are also dropping. I echo Godfrey’s comments. I had an M9 and the M240 is far superior. The shutter action in the M9 is maybe one of the most miserable I have ever experienced barring my Zenit TTL. The feel is crunchy, uneven and scratchy. The noise the shutter makes after release almost sounds like an old Polaroid SX70.
If any Japanese mfg released a camera like this at any price point they would have been pilloried. But Leica somehow got a pass selling this for $7k new.
What else sucks about it? Check out the rear LCD. Again completely unacceptable on a $100 camera yet ok for Leica to put it on a $7k camera.
The M240 completely fixes these issues, the camera is very smooth and responsive. The shutter action is delightful. The LCD is fine. Resolution is improved. Battery life is much better. Reliability is there. Even the rf stays calibrated longer in my experience.

IMO a used good condition m240 is a superb buy in the digital world.
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Old 11-24-2019   #29
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Convenience also doesn't equal better photographs...and often leads to the opposite. IMO.
I would say this is subjective. Anything that gels with a person can make a person do better. I can't see how using the right thing for the photos you wants to make will have the opposite effect.
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Old 11-24-2019   #30
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If he gels with the M6 what does he gain with an M9? More convenience, easier to shoot a bunch of images, but why? Stick with film. M9 is a waste of time. Speaking from experience - been there, done that. Still have the M6, btw.
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Old 11-24-2019   #31
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Thank you guys all. Will follow classifieds here too. Maybe an M9 with replaced sensor can fall here with 2k price tag.
I've seen private sale M 240s for $2200 so watch for them too. I bought mine for $2550 and that included an extra battery, thumbs up, EVF and all original packaging.

Shawn
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Old 11-24-2019   #32
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If he gels with the M6 what does he gain with an M9? More convenience, easier to shoot a bunch of images, but why? Stick with film. M9 is a waste of time. Speaking from experience - been there, done that. Still have the M6, btw.
Your film bias is strong here. What does he gain with the M9? Perhaps he doesn't have a darkroom? With the digital, he can now work on photography whenever he wants. And let's not act like taking a lot of photos is a bad thing. The only way to get better is to make photos. I've used both as well and having a thorough and easily accessible workflow (whether film or digital) is the best thing you can do for your photography. If the guy wants a digital camera and he feels it is right for him, it probably is.
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Old 11-24-2019   #33
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The prices of the M240 are also dropping. I echo Godfrey’s comments. I had an M9 and the M240 is far superior. The shutter action in the M9 is maybe one of the most miserable I have ever experienced barring my Zenit TTL. The feel is crunchy, uneven and scratchy. The noise the shutter makes after release almost sounds like an old Polaroid SX70.
If any Japanese mfg released a camera like this at any price point they would have been pilloried. But Leica somehow got a pass selling this for $7k new.
What else sucks about it? Check out the rear LCD. Again completely unacceptable on a $100 camera yet ok for Leica to put it on a $7k camera.
The M240 completely fixes these issues, the camera is very smooth and responsive. The shutter action is delightful. The LCD is fine. Resolution is improved. Battery life is much better. Reliability is there. Even the rf stays calibrated longer in my experience.

IMO a used good condition m240 is a superb buy in the digital world.

Never heard Bessa L or Canon 5D shutters?

With those and me on the street people were looking around "that was this?" after I was taking candid picture.
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Old 11-24-2019   #34
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Never heard Bessa L or Canon 5D shutters?

With those and me on the street people were looking around "that was this?" after I was taking candid picture.
I have a Bessa L but I am unsure what you mean. The shutter action on mine is delightfully crisp. The sound is a little loud.
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Old 11-24-2019   #35
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I have a Bessa L but I am unsure what you mean. The shutter action on mine is delightfully crisp. The sound is a little loud.
To me bad sound is loud sound.
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Old 11-25-2019   #36
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Your film bias is strong here. What does he gain with the M9? Perhaps he doesn't have a darkroom? With the digital, he can now work on photography whenever he wants. And let's not act like taking a lot of photos is a bad thing. The only way to get better is to make photos. I've used both as well and having a thorough and easily accessible workflow (whether film or digital) is the best thing you can do for your photography. If the guy wants a digital camera and he feels it is right for him, it probably is.
So what? It's a valid question. It seems a lot of folks, especially the older ones, are simply getting more lazy. I talk to a lot of folks who used to shoot film and then they switched to digital, and most if not all say they liked the photos more on film but digital is easy and convenient. Funny how that works.
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Old 11-25-2019   #37
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If you're bothered by the extra 100g of the M240, then it might be worth looking for an M-262.
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Old 11-25-2019   #38
Ko.Fe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
So what? It's a valid question. It seems a lot of folks, especially the older ones, are simply getting more lazy. I talk to a lot of folks who used to shoot film and then they switched to digital, and most if not all say they liked the photos more on film but digital is easy and convenient. Funny how that works.

"They liked the photos more on film". So, do we like how picture looks or what is on the picture?
I'll be first to admit. Yes, it looks more pleasing on film, but too often for images without content.
With digital we are often insecure this way. I see many cute images with film M. Just because it is on film. Add lith and it looks even better.
But I have seen only few good photogs with digital M.
Digital doesn't make dross looks cute, film does. But it is still dross without content most of the time.
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Old 11-25-2019   #39
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Most people shoot for themselves (family/travel/whatever), so I would say that the content that is important to them is not important to anyone else, pretty much by definition. Except maybe in the far future, if it is re-discovered, as those who enjoy collecting or looking at old found photos would attest.

I know many (including myself, in the past) who shoot digital images at such an amount that they never even get edited or looked at again. Heaven help those who shoot in RAW only without a JPEG duplicate, and sometime in the future someone wants to look at them, if the disk is even able to be viewed.

The occasional disciplined digital shooter who shoots with precision and restraint is the exception, not the rule. I have seen numerous events where the parent strolls up with a DSLR and shoots 200 frames in under a minute of their kid doing something or receiving an award, whatever. How many fps does the typical DSLR have these days anyway...
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Old 11-25-2019   #40
Ko.Fe.
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The question is not about quantity of frames, but quality of the content in them.
My impression is what many likes film just because how it looks, without the content.
And it is not something I'm into. Winogrand, HCB used film just because nothing else was available. BG switched to digital, but it didn't changed the value of the content on his pictures.
Five out of seven in my family doesn't care if picture is on film or digital. All it has to be - good family picture, portrait and so on.

My local media would not even take film content, they need it digitally taken.
I got published, was one of the winners in international content. All with digital. Including M-E pictures.

JPEG1 vs RAW is as old as film. Wanna PP? RAW in LR, negative in DR. Like it SOOC? JPEG1, Instax, E6, its the same.
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