Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Being a Photographer > Business / Philosophy of Photography

Business / Philosophy of Photography Taking pics is one thing, but understanding why we take them, what they mean, what they are best used for, how they effect our reality -- all of these and more are important issues of the Philosophy of Photography. One of the best authors on the subject is Susan Sontag in her book "On Photography."

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Online Photos Can’t Be Used Without Permission, EU Court Rules
Old 08-09-2018   #1
PKR
Registered User
 
PKR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,490
Online Photos Can’t Be Used Without Permission, EU Court Rules

Online Photos Can’t Be Used Without Permission, EU Court Rules

PetaPixel
Aug 08, 2018 Michael Zhang

A Virginia federal court sparked quite a controversy among photographers last month when it ruled that copying photos found on the Internet is fair use. Now a European Union court has just issued a landmark ruling that states you can’t simply republish a photo because it’s freely accessible online — you need the photographer’s permission first.

Unlike in the Virginia case, in which a photographer’s photo was used without permission on a commercial website, this latest EU case (Land Nordrhein-Westfalen v Dirk Renckhoff) involved a secondary school student downloading a photo from a travel website and using it in a school presentation that was also published on the school’s website.
The photographer who shot the photo, Dirk Renckhoff, discovered the unauthorized usage and sued the school seeking €400 in damages. And unlike in the Virginia case, the EU court has ruled in Renckhoff’s favor.
“The posting on a website of a photograph that was freely accessible on another website with the consent of the author requires a new authorization by that author,” the Court of Justice of the European Union writes. “Mr. Renckhoff claims that he gave a right of use only to the operators of the travel website and that the posting of the photograph on the school website is an infringement of his copyright.”
“[A]ny use of a work by a third party without such prior consent must be regarded as infringing the copyright of that work,” the court continues.

Basically, the court is affirming that you can’t simply republish a photo anywhere you’d like on the Internet just because it’s freely accessible elsewhere on the Web.
Also, the court strongly states that it’s not the photographer’s responsibility to protect his photo from copyright infringement, stating: “it is of little importance if, as in the present case, the copyright holder does not limit the ways in which the photograph may be used by internet users.”
Here’s the full statement released by the court:


“The directive aims to establish a high level of protection for authors, allowing them to obtain an appropriate reward for the use of their works, including on the occasion of communication to the public,” the court says.

More
read:https://petapixel.com/2018/08/08/onl...u-court-rules/
__________________
The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera. Dorothea Lange
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-09-2018   #2
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
Online Photos Can’t Be Used Without Permission, EU Court Rules

PetaPixel
Aug 08, 2018 Michael Zhang

A Virginia federal court sparked quite a controversy among photographers last month when it ruled that copying photos found on the Internet is fair use. Now a European Union court has just issued a landmark ruling that states you can’t simply republish a photo because it’s freely accessible online — you need the photographer’s permission first.

Unlike in the Virginia case, in which a photographer’s photo was used without permission on a commercial website, this latest EU case (Land Nordrhein-Westfalen v Dirk Renckhoff) involved a secondary school student downloading a photo from a travel website and using it in a school presentation that was also published on the school’s website.
The photographer who shot the photo, Dirk Renckhoff, discovered the unauthorized usage and sued the school seeking €400 in damages. And unlike in the Virginia case, the EU court has ruled in Renckhoff’s favor.
“The posting on a website of a photograph that was freely accessible on another website with the consent of the author requires a new authorization by that author,” the Court of Justice of the European Union writes. “Mr. Renckhoff claims that he gave a right of use only to the operators of the travel website and that the posting of the photograph on the school website is an infringement of his copyright.”
“[A]ny use of a work by a third party without such prior consent must be regarded as infringing the copyright of that work,” the court continues.

Basically, the court is affirming that you can’t simply republish a photo anywhere you’d like on the Internet just because it’s freely accessible elsewhere on the Web.
Also, the court strongly states that it’s not the photographer’s responsibility to protect his photo from copyright infringement, stating: “it is of little importance if, as in the present case, the copyright holder does not limit the ways in which the photograph may be used by internet users.”
Here’s the full statement released by the court:


“The directive aims to establish a high level of protection for authors, allowing them to obtain an appropriate reward for the use of their works, including on the occasion of communication to the public,” the court says.

More
read:https://petapixel.com/2018/08/08/onl...u-court-rules/
There's hope yet! Thanks for the link.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-09-2018   #3
Larry Cloetta
Registered User
 
Larry Cloetta is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson, WY
Age: 70
Posts: 1,777
I hereby give permission for anybody anywhere to use mine.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-09-2018   #4
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
 
davidnewtonguitars's Avatar
 
davidnewtonguitars is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 1,460
Hear, hear! So common sense is not entirely outdated.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #5
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,604
European Court of Justice? That sounds wrong to me...

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #6
peterm1
Registered User
 
peterm1's Avatar
 
peterm1 is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
European Court of Justice? That sounds wrong to me...

Regards, David
Sounds oxymoronic to me too for some strange reason.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #7
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
European Court of Justice? That sounds wrong to me...

Regards, David
Dear David,

Sorry, am I missing something? Court of Justice of the European Union sounds pretty close to European Court of Justice to me.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #8
seany65
Registered User
 
seany65 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,107
Ridiculous decision.

Although I think an acknowledgement by the reposter of who took the photo and what website they got the photo from should be included in any reposting.

I also think any reposting should not be for commercial purposes, either by the reposter or the website.

Though that could probably run into few complications if the website gets revenue from adverts.
__________________
An ever-growing amount of photo-stuff and a never-growing amount of photo-talent.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #9
Steve M.
Registered User
 
Steve M. is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,381
Ridiculous decision???? European court of justice sounds wrong???

I'm gonna go back to bed and restart this day later!
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #10
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,604
I was just amazed that a case involving €400 should get that high in the system as the court is the supreme court for Europe. I thought that it would only be a local court; no more.

But I see that a German Federal Court asked them for an opinion, which explains it.

Getting to the UK Supreme Court would cost something like - I don't know but I'd guess - about a quarter of a million or so. That was all.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #11
valdas
Registered User
 
valdas is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,495
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
I was just amazed that a case involving €400 should get that high in the system as the court is the supreme court for Europe. I thought that it would only be a local court; no more.

Getting to the UK Supreme Court would cost something like - I don't know but I'd guess - about a quarter of a million or so. That was all.

Regards, David
To me it sounds like a good reason to love EU...
__________________
My Flickr
________
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #12
PKR
Registered User
 
PKR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,490
Link to Virginia Fed Court thread..

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...hreadid=165537
__________________
The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera. Dorothea Lange
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #13
Out to Lunch
Registered User
 
Out to Lunch's Avatar
 
Out to Lunch is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,657
I would not rely on PetaPixel to interpret EU Court rulings. Leave it to the professionals.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #14
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
I would not rely on PetaPixel to interpret EU Court rulings. Leave it to the professionals.
Dear Peter,

Follow the link and they reproduce the ECJ opinion, so I'm not quite clear what you're saying.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #15
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
To me it sounds like a good reason to love EU...
Well, yes. Hard to see the objection.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #16
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
Ridiculous decision???? European court of justice sounds wrong???

I'm gonna go back to bed and restart this day later!
Dear Steve,

Nah... Just go and photograph ground hogs for an indeterminate number of days. Better still, try to persuade brexiters to do it.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-12-2018   #17
peterm1
Registered User
 
peterm1's Avatar
 
peterm1 is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
European Court of Justice? That sounds wrong to me...

Regards, David


I think I have figured out why this name grated a bit with me. The name contains what seems to me to be a redundancy - which sounds as if they are protesting too much.

In the Australian tradition we do not refer to "courts of justice" The latter bit is just assumed. We have District Courts (or County Courts) Supreme Courts, a High Court etc. We all know that they are there to dispense justice though we also know they sometimes fail in our expectations. We certainly never refer to them as courts of justice.

It kind of put me in mind of what could be a Monty Python sketch:

"I have just filed a complaint in the court".
"Did you file in the Court of Justice?"
"No I filed in the Court of Injustice, its decisions are never very good, but its just down the road from my house and the filing fees are cheaper".

With that image in my mind I will move onto my actual question. Do they not have fair use laws in the EU? I can understand laws to prevent the theft of copyrighted materials but I thought most jurisdictions allowed "fair use" for certain restricted purposes.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-13-2018   #18
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
To me it sounds like a good reason to love EU...

It is and that's probably why everyone wants to leave it these days; well, the UK does. OTOH, it shows that the turkeys will vote for Christmas if enough lies are told...

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-13-2018   #19
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,604
"Do they not have fair use laws in the EU? I can understand laws to prevent the theft of copyrighted materials but I thought most jurisdictions allowed "fair use" for certain restricted purposes." Peter M.


I think the answer is that individual countries are expected to pass their own laws enforcing EU ones but somehow (isn't it strange?) they usually manage to leave out a little bit here and a little bit there and add a few other bits to compensate...

Then, I thought, the ECJ steps in as a sort of referee, if requested. The lawyers, interpreters and translators do well out of it and (just this once) the photographers.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-13-2018   #20
santino
eXpect me
 
santino's Avatar
 
santino is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Autriche
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post

Then, I thought, the ECJ steps in as a sort of referee, if requested. The lawyers, interpreters and translators do well out of it and (just this once) the photographers.


Regards, David

You're not quite right.... if a precedence (or highly doubtful) case concerns EU-law the national court has to ask the ECJ.
No european court (be it national or supranational) is a referee unlike in the common law countries (except for trade deals like CETA etc. - but in this cases they are not real courts with real judges anyway).

The case btw seems to be a bit controversial because of the fact that it was just a school website but imagine a global player using your picture on its website without permission.
I'm biased...
__________________
Vivent les télémétriques ! -
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-13-2018   #21
peterm1
Registered User
 
peterm1's Avatar
 
peterm1 is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
It is and that's probably why everyone wants to leave it these days; well, the UK does. OTOH, it shows that the turkeys will vote for Christmas if enough lies are told...

Regards, David
Not only will the turkeys vote for christmas they will provide their own stuffing and sauce with the right inducements.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-13-2018   #22
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
. . . I think the answer is that individual countries are expected to pass their own laws enforcing EU ones . . .
Dear David,

Not exactly. Most law in most European countries is national, and a lot of it dates back to long before the EU or deals with things the EU has never really addressed. The ECJ tries to unify EU laws by ruling on disputed points in different national laws.

This is (like your description) an abbreviated over-simplification but (like your description) it's probably quite useful.

Cheers,

R.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-13-2018   #23
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,604
Thanks everyone; I retired (rather early) about 28 or 29 years ago and have only a hazy remembrance plus what I read in the (more hazy) newspapers, which was why I said I thought...

There/then was a time when I had access to our legal dept and translators.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 14:00.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.