The IIIf that shot Che Guevara...
Old 09-25-2016   #1
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The IIIf that shot Che Guevara...

... is on auction at Catawiki.

His son is apparently selling it:

http://veiling.catawiki.nl/kavels/76...of-che-guevara
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Old 09-25-2016   #2
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A lot of money for a bread and butter red dial IIIf, but then again it was used by Korda for his famous Che photo.
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Old 09-25-2016   #3
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Looking back, it seems that photo was credited to an M2. Does anyone else remember it this way?
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Old 09-25-2016   #4
Erik van Straten
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The famous portrait of Che Guevara was shot with an M2 and a 90mm lens.

This IIIf only belonged to the photographer Korda (if true), but did not make the famous picture. So what is so special about it?

Erik.
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Old 09-25-2016   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
The famous portrait of Che Guevara was shot with an M2 and a 90mm lens.

This IIIf only belonged to the photographer Korda (if true), but did not make the famous picture. So what is so special about it?

Erik.
You and presspass are very possibly right.

Now that you mention it, I do have a dim memory of reading about Korda and that it was a Leica lll or llla with a beat-up 9cm Elmar lens that he used for that famous photo.

Either way, what is then so special about that RD lllf?
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Old 09-25-2016   #6
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It was shot with a 111c. I have that camera, but I'm willing to sell it if the price is right.
The provenance is watertight. I bought it from a bloke called Korda in a pub in London. Right after the famous shot became famous .
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Old 09-25-2016   #7
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to quote the listing

"My father actively used this camera in the fifties and sixties and kept it the rest of his life. That's why it's likely that my father took with this camera "

so it might be the camera............. and maybe not
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Old 09-25-2016   #8
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Che's personal disdain for Korda is common knowledge. He believed Korda did not pull his weight in supporting the Revolution and was too focused on his photography.

The incident of Korda's attempt to photograph Che cutting sugar cane was one such. Che who tried to lead by example always spent the first day of sugar cane season out in the field with a machete. Korda, appeared with his camera sensing a great photo. Che asked Korda if he had ever cut sugar cane. Upon hearing no, Che handed Korda a machete and told him that after he had spent a week cutting cane, he could photograph Che doing the same. Korda never got his photo of Che with a machete. Fidel was more tolerant as Korda did make a photo of Fidel cutting cane.
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Old 09-25-2016   #9
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"I remember his staring over the crowd on 23rd street," Korda says. Staring up, he was struck by Guevara's expression which he says showed, "absolute implacability," as well as anger and pain. Korda was shooting a Leica M2 loaded with Plus-X film and had a 90mm Leica telephoto lens mounted on it. He managed to take just two frames -- one vertical and one horizontal -- before Che stepped away."

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news...of-che-guevara

There are many testimonials that it was an M2.

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Old 09-25-2016   #10
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Hi,

I'm not sure what the famous photo is but on the front of one of Leica's famous catalogues is a greatly enlarged half tone of Che. The catalogue is entitled "LEICA M How revolutionary should your camera be?" and was published in 1999.

Inside it say it (Che's portrait) was taken with a 90mm lens and Korda's M2 on the 6th March 1960.

Th catalogue is about the M6 and "glass, brass and steel" lots of pretty pictures in it and about 60 pages.

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Old 09-25-2016   #11
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Korda's advice to aspiring young photographers: "Forget the camera, forget the lens, forget all of that. With any four-dollar camera, you can capture the best picture."

That about sums it up for me.

http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/art...rto-Korda.html
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Old 09-25-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scigeek View Post
It was shot with a 111c. I have that camera, but I'm willing to sell it if the price is right.
The provenance is watertight. I bought it from a bloke called Korda in a pub in London. Right after the famous shot became famous .
...and you paid a good price mate. I spent the money on wine and women and wasted the rest.
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Old 09-25-2016   #13
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One thing for certain someone will want it and pay a huge sum for the privilege, even if it is just a 'normal' IIIf
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Old 09-25-2016   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
...and you paid a good price mate. I spent the money on wine and women and wasted the rest.
George Best:

"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."

"In 1969 I gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life."
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Old 09-25-2016   #15
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Auction ends in four days and it's at EUR 2700 currently. The reserve is off, in case anyone wants to join in

It'll be interesting to see how much it fetches.
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Old 09-25-2016   #16
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Catawiki?

I call Bull Manure!
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Old 09-26-2016   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
George Best:

"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."

"In 1969 I gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life."
Well perhaps I should apologise for a misquote of homeric proportions...didn't realise it was uttered by Mr Best but happy that it was.

For those who are interested I shall be bringing to the market George's own personal Instamatic 200 (with flash) in the next week or two. This is the legendary camera that took the famous series of pictures inside Annabel's the night before some northern derby. I could go on....and on...
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Old 09-30-2016   #18
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EUhm....

that camera fetched EUR 18,100.00




Might have to sell some stuff on Catawiki myself...
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Old 09-30-2016   #19
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Weeelp, It finally went for 18K Euro. Some poor sap got shafted.

People contacted Catawiki telling them the error in the description.
Catawiki stated they would contact Dante Korda and possibly remove the auction...
as that didn't happen, my assumptions about catawiki are confirmed.
They're crooks.
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Old 10-04-2016   #20
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Isn't it wonderful how a lot of photography-related sites copied the news of the auction without doing any fact-checking. At least the Leicaphilia Blog got it right.

http://leicaphilia.com/for-sale-the-...f-che-guevara/

It would be interesting to see the buyer's reaction if/when he's told his camera did not in fact take the historic picture promised by the seller.
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Old 10-04-2016   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Flibble View Post
Isn't it wonderful how a lot of photography-related sites copied the news of the auction without doing any fact-checking. At least the Leicaphilia Blog got it right.

http://leicaphilia.com/for-sale-the-...f-che-guevara/

It would be interesting to see the buyer's reaction if/when he's told his camera did not in fact take the historic picture promised by the seller.
This is all getting kind of all convoluted.

The camera in that article where it shows a photo of Korda with a camera around his neck looks to be a Leica III or IIIa

The camera for sale was a Leica IIIf.

That same article shows a photo of a Leica IIIf and calls it a Leica III.

The famous Che photo was supposedly shot with a Leica M2.
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Old 10-04-2016   #22
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Some of the photons reflected from Che, which bounced off Korda's M2 and onto that IIIf travelled so far as my M2, and so I am willing to sell that for a flat €9k which is less than half price.
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Old 10-04-2016   #23
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Quote:
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Some of the photons reflected from Che, which bounced off Korda's M2 and onto that IIIf travelled so far as my M2, and so I am willing to sell that for a flat 9k which is less than half price.
That famous Korda photo affected all cameras in the world simultaneously that very day Korda snapped the shutter on his Practica FX2 with the Meyer Trioplan 100mm lens.

Yes, it was a penta-prizm equipped mid 1950s Praktica SLR that took that famous Che photo, nothing to do with any Leica camera.
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Old 10-04-2016   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
Korda's advice to aspiring young photographers: "Forget the camera, forget the lens, forget all of that. With any four-dollar camera, you can capture the best picture."
But he fails to mention that a photo with a $40 camera will be 10 times better.

Extrapolating that, this explains why Leicas take the best photos in this universe.
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Old 10-04-2016   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
Korda's advice to aspiring young photographers: "Forget the camera, forget the lens, forget all of that. With any four-dollar camera, you can capture the best picture."

That about sums it up for me.

http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/art...rto-Korda.html
-->and he still used a number of leicas and leitz lenses, instead of brownies...
that sums it up for ME
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Old 10-04-2016   #26
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Weeelp, It finally went for 18K Euro. Some poor sap got shafted.

People contacted Catawiki telling them the error in the description.
Catawiki stated they would contact Dante Korda and possibly remove the auction...
as that didn't happen, my assumptions about catawiki are confirmed.
They're crooks.
Once i contacted them (~6 months ago?) about a photo that they attributed to Robert Capa because it had the name Endre Friedmann on it.
Funny **** is, the photo was clearly shot in the sixties.

They've corrected their mistake and thanked me for the info.So not all crooks.

But hey, that was not a 18k item, it was 100x cheaper category.
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Old 10-04-2016   #27
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-->and he still used a number of leicas and leitz lenses, instead of brownies...
that sums it up for ME
Pretty much. If all u need is a $4 camera then why dont they use that?

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Old 10-04-2016   #28
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This is all getting kind of all convoluted.

The camera in that article where it shows a photo of Korda with a camera around his neck looks to be a Leica III or IIIa

The camera for sale was a Leica IIIf.

That same article shows a photo of a Leica IIIf and calls it a Leica III.

The famous Che photo was supposedly shot with a Leica M2.
You're right, and Catawiki should have checked their facts before taking the camera on auction. The fact that a seller is somebody's son doesn't make each and any claim correct.

Wouldn't so much call it 'Bull Manure' or 'Crooks', but the kind of carelessness that could cost them their good name before it even caught on.
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Old 10-04-2016   #29
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From personal experience I already hate them. So I'm kinda biased.
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Old 10-04-2016   #30
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Pretty much. If all u need is a $4 camera then why dont they use that?

Purely status.

Same reason that great big Nikon and Canon dSLRs are carried and used today. It is the professional brand.

If Castro would have seen Korda carrying a Brownie he would have had him cutting sugar cane, not taking pictures.
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Old 10-04-2016   #31
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Quote:
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You're right, and Catawiki should have checked their facts before taking the camera on auction. The fact that a seller is somebody's son doesn't make each and any claim correct.

Wouldn't so much call it 'Bull Manure' or 'Crooks', but the kind of carelessness that could cost them their good name before it even caught on.
So called famous people's cameras are now as much stuck in hear-say sacred relics phenomena, that bestow great power (read talent and good fortune) on the new owner, as much as today's fashion of exorbitantly priced old electric guitars of the famous guitar Gods of the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s.
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Old 10-04-2016   #32
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Purely status.

Same reason that great big Nikon and Canon dSLRs are carried and used today. It is the professional brand.

If Castro would have seen Korda carrying a Brownie he would have had him cutting sugar cane, not taking pictures.
C'mon! I'd say 99% of the projects I have shot and sold could not be done with a $4 camera. Unless that was some bizarro garage find story...

Of course you'd get an image, but perhaps not the quality of image that you desired. Whether you are a sports, fine arts etc photographer.
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Old 10-04-2016   #33
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C'mon! I'd say 99% of the projects I have shot and sold could not be done with a $4 camera. Unless that was some bizarro garage find story...

Of course you'd get an image, but perhaps not the quality of image that you desired. Whether you are a sports, fine arts etc photographer.
Hmmm, but a lot of the dirt cheap cameras are on the market because they are film and we all know that only thousands of pounds spent on a digital gizmo will take good pictures. But I think that a lot of cameras that cheap nowadays are more than capable of taking brilliant pictures of most subjects.

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Old 10-04-2016   #34
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Hmmm, but a lot of the dirt cheap cameras are on the market because they are film and we all know that only thousands of pounds spent on a digital gizmo will take good pictures. But I think that a lot of cameras that cheap nowadays are more than capable of taking brilliant pictures of most subjects.

Regards, David
Oh, I agree with that. Nikon F100s for $120. F5 for $250. My Nikkormat that I got for $17 and takes fantastic images.
But these weren't cheap when new, and the point that Korba made was with new cameras.

You can take a good pic with pretty much anything, as long as there is no specific requirement for that pic. Given any kind of assignment, you're going to suit up with the best gear, given the choice, for that job.
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Old 10-05-2016   #35
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Hi,

I'm not sure what the famous photo is but on the front of one of Leica's famous catalogues is a greatly enlarged half tone of Che. The catalogue is entitled "LEICA M How revolutionary should your camera be?" and was published in 1999.

Inside it say it (Che's portrait) was taken with a 90mm lens and Korda's M2 on the 6th March 1960.

Th catalogue is about the M6 and "glass, brass and steel" lots of pretty pictures in it and about 60 pages.

Regards, David
That catalog had this awesomely beat up m4 with most of its paint missing
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Old 10-05-2016   #36
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Weeelp, It finally went for 18K Euro. Some poor sap got shafted.

....
If someone poors out 18 Grand and isn't properly reading the vague description
QUOTE: [That's why it's likely that my father took with this camera one of the world's most famous photo's ever made. The iconic image of the freedom fighter Che Guevara.]

then he got his money's worth
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Old 10-05-2016   #37
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Leica book titled, "Ninety Nine Years," says "the photograph of Che Guevare was taken on 5th March 1960 at a funeral service in Havana. It says, Korda pressed the shutter of his M2."

Check out page 130 for the description and page 126 to see the photograph.


http://www.kurlandphoto.com/blog/201...a-at-99-years/
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Old 10-05-2016   #38
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How Capitalistic of him.......Ironic.
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Old 10-05-2016   #39
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How Capitalistic of him.......Ironic.
Knowing Korda and Guevara didn't always see eye to eye, I think it's approriate

I wonder how many of the camera that took Che's famous picture Korda's son sold....
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Old 10-05-2016   #40
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Now if it were the rifle that shot Che, I would make a bid. ;^)
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