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Old 08-30-2018   #41
Bill Clark
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I never owned a rangefinder camera until I joined this forum. Leica film cameras have been a great addition with my other stuff.

When going through airport security I rarely get my camera bag, after going through the scanner, hand looked at anymore. TSA probably thinks it’s just an old coot going through with even older cameras!

It has been a nice ride here.

I’ve learned a lot and I hope I have helped others here. I will continue with both.
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Old 08-30-2018   #42
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Content and participants, along with the structure and rules set by the bartender, all make this a great place.

That the title includes the word "rangefinder" is of far less import to me.
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Old 08-30-2018   #43
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As long as the forum is relevant to it's users, it's relevant, it never has been relevant to anyone else.

It's somewhat astonishing that despite being open to non-RF stuff, this forum has not been completely taken over by the vast majority of non-RF users out there.
In any case, it's one of my fav places on the web.
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Old 08-30-2018   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papercut View Post
Asking about relevance raises the question of "to whom?" Or "to what?" (Relevance is always relative, i.e., related to something or someone.) Is RFF relevant to global photographic sales? Photography on global social media? Photographic technology development? Perhaps not. Is it relevant to those individuals who post questions, commentary, and yes, even photos on RFF? Yes, most assuredly it is. (As an aside: I am frequently struck by the number of dedicated photo threads on RFF -- sure, many of those are gear-centric (photos with such-and-such lens), but as a community RFF is pretty active in shooting images and posting them. We don't always discuss image content that much, perhaps because we find candid critique abrasive and corrosive of civility, but that's okay as there are other venues for people to seek out that sort of exchange.) Is RFF relevant to people searching for answers to questions about rangefinders (new and old)? Yep, I am sure it serves as a repository and interactive resource of knowledge and answers to a whole host of questions and concerns.

IMO, there's no need to wring our hands or even feel twinges of angst that somehow we're "not relevant" to a wider body of photographers. Since early days, there have always been multiple venues for photographic knowledge, each catering to sub-groups within the larger community of the photography obsessed. That hasn't changed and RFF serves its fairly small community well. In other words, RFF remains relevant to the people who make up the RFF community, as well as to some number of lurkers who pass through without leaving any trace, except in traffic stats and bandwidth usage. That's good enough, I reckon.
I agree with this, and would add that there's a resurgence of interest in "analog" photography going on now that makes RFF's discussion and image-sharing fora more relevant than ever. While film photography may never recover its late twentieth century popularity, I think interest in film cameras, especially by people in their 20s and 30s, who want to move beyond their smart phones, is strong and getting stronger. So having a place to go to learn about film cameras (whether rangefinders or not) and to share photos taken w/ them is very relevant and valuable. I also think that RFF as a platform is pretty easy to use and is not cluttered up w/ intrusive advertising. And finally the RFF community is pretty informed and civilized. I say Long Live RFF!!
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Old 08-30-2018   #45
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This camera was cut-n-pasted from a page of a big NYC camera retailer:

Fujifilm X-T2 Mirrorless Digital Camera (Body Only)

Here is an excerpt from the above company, FujiFILM's, Wikipedia page:

Fujifilm - Wikipedia
Fujifilm Holdings Corporation, trading as Fujifilm, or simply Fuji, is a Japanese multinational photography and imaging company headquartered in Tokyo...


Now -- is film really a big part of FujiFILM's revenue these days? Sure they still make some...

Yet?

They are still called FujiFILM.

Is anyone asking if they're still "relevant" because they call themselves FujFILM when film constitutes an ever-shrinking portion of their gross revenue (presumably)? Should they instead call themselves Fujidigital?

Do I need to explain this position/analogy further?

Sorry. Such silliness.
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Old 08-30-2018   #46
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It's still a very good place to hang out but it has drifted away from photographic imagery over the years. The gallery is slow and specific image threads are lethargic these days.
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Old 08-30-2018   #47
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"It's somewhat astonishing that despite being open to non-RF stuff, this forum has not been completely taken over by the vast majority of non-RF users out there."

Exactly right, which is why the forum has stayed relevant. Things are fluid and flexible here, not fixed and rigid, and opinions are all over the place. I almost always shoot film, but it's amazing what quality you can get from a phone, and that's pretty neat. As new things develop, this forum is ready to go.

I doubt it was ever meant to be solely about rangefinders anyway because that isn't sustainable. It would be like having a forum for folders only, or TLR's. That leaves out a lot of people. Primarily rangefinders perhaps, but the different categories mean that almost everyone can find something of interest. The more diverse the better, and I think that a very diverse membership and sensible moderation has been the reason for it's success and longevity.

We very, very seldom see posts that would be considered rude, or denigrate others. Go to Reddit sometime. I had to end my membership there because certain people were totally out of control, and even though many people complained, nothing ever changed. After a while you say this isn't fun anymore and you stop going.
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Old 08-30-2018   #48
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I think RFF is very relevant for those who continue to populate it.
The most fun are the specific image subject threads, to see both the wonderful & mundane pics, and to rummage thru my scans and find something that is worth posting, and then to make a note to shoot, as a project, something for my favorite threads.
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Old 08-30-2018   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
I know I am asking for my head to be chopped off, but I think we need to exam this question. With Nikon's Mirrorless announcement on one end and the onslaught of Algorithm based smartphones on the other end, is there anything left? As a Rangefinder forum, all we really have is expensive Leica M's and nostalgic rangefinders of old. Sure we have lots of sub forums for other rigs but are they really RF's or are we just trying keep the forum alive? I, for one, appreciate the content level of this forum and read it everyday (and contribute my fair share). So my real question, is are we becoming obsolete? Do we care? Is the photog world leaving us in the dust of our film day memories? Written with respect and request for spirited reflection and lively discourse. Please no flaming.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/index.php

Seeing as how the above forum and the cameras it is dedicated to are neither obsolete or extinct, I think that makes a statement about this forum, rangefinder cameras, view cameras and film based photography.

While none of the above are making a billion dollar a year contribution to the photographic marketplace, none of these are at death's doorstep.
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Old 08-30-2018   #50
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Let me post here what I have seen on current page:

Which cams have "automatic" transport---?
Something deep into the guts about 120 film folders.

Tokyo Japan (Multipage Article 1 2 3 ... Last Page)
It is pictures thread.

Ebay 15% Discount TODAY 8/28/18 to $100
BS. I mean, Bartender, Sorry.

What have you just BOUGHT?
Sweet gearhead devine.

Lillies,Lillies, Lillies
It is pictures thread. Like mobile phone pictures and Leica close up attachments pictures to have same results as with phone, but with worse framing.

DIY large format cameras
It is real gearheads thread. I think they are masters of scissors.

Is RFF even relevant anymore?
Flaming is dropping match to start the fire. Just because.

Leica IIIC K : want to talk about ball bearings?
RFF. They have some balls to lube, I guess.

How Can Analog Photography Be Saved?
Another BS, but sweet. Film is sweet.

Rolleiflex 621
About film camera nobody knows about, but for real.

Some new photos from Fort Wayne
Classic RFF contribution. Real photography.

Leica M and Zeiss ZM "wides"
RFF as usual. Talk about something which just works without talks.

jammcat celebrates a birthday today.
Classic Tony. RFF.

Leica M Monochrom: best pics
RFF

Help Needed with Canon Canonet QL17
RFF

It is RFF, indeed, not sure what OP is talking about.
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Old 08-30-2018   #51
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There are forums where people discuss painting and horseback riding, both of which could be deemed as 'obsolete'. Go figure. I like to shoot film, and I shoot a rangefinder.
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Old 08-30-2018   #52
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Thank you Mr Bartender and forum members. Great forum. Someone sell me a RD1...jk I wish lol
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Old 08-30-2018   #53
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I would certainly miss it if it were to go away so for me it continues to be very relevant. Thank all of you for your excellent discussions.

The announcement of the new Nikon mirrorless camera is very exciting for sure, as will be the announcement of a new Canon mirrorless in a week or so. But in a year they will just be a couple more cameras that will have been painlessly absorbed into this wonderful forum.

The latest and greatest will always be interesting and exciting, but the old rangefinders, slrs, tlrs, folders, Brownie/Holgas and cetera are all still out there as well. So there will always be a need for a place to get together with others who have similar interests.

This is still a very relaxing place to discuss both the old and the new. Nothing can last forever but I do hope this forum lasts a bit longer.
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Old 08-31-2018   #54
Yokosuka_Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Let me post here what I have seen on current page:

Lillies,Lillies, Lillies
It is pictures thread. Like mobile phone pictures and Leica close up attachments pictures to have same results as with phone, but with worse framing.
So, Ko.Fe, are you saying that the Lily pictures in the "Lillies,Lillies, Lillies" thread look like badly framed iPhone snap shots?

Or, am I as usual not understanding anything you say?

Please let me know; in the effort of keeping RFF relevant and all that as it may be.

All the best,
Mike
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Old 08-31-2018   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
I would certainly miss it if it were to go away so for me it continues to be very relevant. Thank all of you for your excellent discussions.

The announcement of the new Nikon mirror less camera is very exciting for sure, as will be the announcement of a new Canon mirror less in a week or so. But in a year they will just be a couple more cameras that will have been painlessly absorbed into this wonderful forum.

The latest and greatest will always be interesting and exciting, but the old rangefinders, slrs, tlrs, folders, Brownie/Holgas and cetera are all still out there as well. So there will always be a need for a place to get together with others who have similar interests.

This is still a very relaxing place to discuss both the old and the new. Nothing can last forever but I do hope this forum lasts a bit longer.
Well said. Thank you.
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Old 08-31-2018   #56
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Looking forward to getting my Mamiya6 back from well deserved service. RFF still very relevant for me.
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Old 08-31-2018   #57
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Relevant to those of us that still use it.

Quite whether the site or its users are still 'relevant' is another matter entirely.
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Old 08-31-2018   #58
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Yup. Internet needs a place for old farts and hipsters to leicaj*rk.
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Old 08-31-2018   #59
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I’ve learned a ton on here. So ya, it’s still relevant to me at least
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Old 08-31-2018   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
... So my real question, is are we becoming obsolete? ...
The question of life when men getting older

Ah - the forum? Noo. It is the same nice place it was when I joined some days ago

Rangefindering for me is also a attitude to life and a way of photography. I think that does
not necessary depend on the kind of gear you have or use. Keep on rocking

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Old 08-31-2018   #61
Ko.Fe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yokosuka_Mike View Post
So, Ko.Fe, are you saying that the Lily pictures in the "Lillies,Lillies, Lillies" thread look like badly framed iPhone snap shots?

Or, am I as usual not understanding anything you say?

Please let me know; in the effort of keeping RFF relevant and all that as it may be.

All the best,
Mike
HCB, GW and others I have books of doesn't seems to be into flowers pictures, but life photography with RF.

I have no idea how your flowers pictures looks like. I'm not into flowers photography and threads this much. I'm using RF mostly for street and badly framed snapshots. But I do photograph something like flowers.



I also not sure how iPhone photos could be framed badly. If someone can't frame with wysiwyg device, it is not this device problem.

Take it easy, take flowers pictures. . Ko.
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Old 08-31-2018   #62
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I miss the arguments over which developer is best, but where else could you find a character like KO.FE.
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Old 08-31-2018   #63
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I miss the arguments over which developer is best, but where else could you find a character like KO.FE.
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Old 08-31-2018   #64
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A few key decisions shaped RFF along the way.

1) would RFF remain film only, or embrace digital?
As Leica started making digital cameras, RFF started talking about them.

2) would RFF remain only rangefinders, or embrace other platforms?
As more members requested other non RF forums, we added other camera types

3) would RFF take note of mirrorless cameras that could adapt RF lenses?
any camera that shoots RF lenses is a RF of sorts, so there are many subforums on mirrorless cameras that can shoot RF lenses

4) would RFF remain centered on gear?
Yep, never any maybe on that. I don't see many discussions on Flickr wishing for more gear talk,
so why question RFF is primarily about gear?

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Old 08-31-2018   #65
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1) would RFF remain film only, or embrace digital?
accept digital, not embrace

2) would RFF remain only rangefinders, or embrace other platforms?
I´d like to see when it stays rangefinder-centered and accepts other platforms like now

3) would RFF take note of mirrorless cameras that could adapt RF lenses?
any camera that shoots RF lenses is a RF of sorts, so there are many subforums on mirrorless cameras that can shoot RF lenses

yes

4) would RFF remain centered on gear?
I`d like to switch the center a bit more to photographing and pictures

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Old 08-31-2018   #66
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1)

4) would RFF remain centered on gear?
I`d like to switch the center a bit more to photographing and pictures

Axels 5ct
Just start more photo discussions.
There are no rules against it!
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Old 08-31-2018   #67
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Not more discussions - making and showing pictures.

The gallery, the pics of the week and photo association thread are my favorite ones.
And I do my very best

We have so good photographers here and the collection of amazing pictures is a big treasure
in my eyes. What can be more attractive than good photographs?

Btw. - thanks for holding this nice place Stephen!
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Old 08-31-2018   #68
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Quote:
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As long as this forum is not about pictures of flowers and HDR,
Yes, but what about HDR pictures of flowers?
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Old 08-31-2018   #69
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From this little corner of the Universe, life would be a bit blander without RFF.

I love looking through the random gallery and discovering forgotten gems.
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Old 08-31-2018   #70
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Most of my shooting is done with Fuji gear or the little Pany LF1 that is always in my bag. I still use rangefinders though (there is a Rank Mamiya sitting next to my computer, loaded with Fomapan 100). Even if I did not use RFs this forum would still be relevant as there are so many knowledgeable people gathered here - and they are willing to help (even when clueless newbies ask the most simple questions) . Which brings me to another point: This is a nice and friendly forum - a real rarity these days...
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Old 08-31-2018   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
A few key decisions shaped RFF along the way.

1) would RFF remain film only, or embrace digital?
As Leica started making digital cameras, RFF started talking about them.

2) would RFF remain only rangefinders, or embrace other platforms?
As more members requested other non RF forums, we added other camera types

3) would RFF take note of mirrorless cameras that could adapt RF lenses?
any camera that shoots RF lenses is a RF of sorts, so there are many subforums on mirrorless cameras that can shoot RF lenses

4) would RFF remain centered on gear?
Yep, never any maybe on that. I don't see many discussions on Flickr wishing for more gear talk,
so why question RFF is primarily about gear?

Stephen
AS the chief bartender, you said it all. The answer???? RFF is very relevant.
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Old 08-31-2018   #72
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What's in a name? It's more RFF than Rangefinder Forum sometimes. This forum is one of the miracles of the internet. It so broad, so erudite, so polished and there is such a high quality of contribution and such a high standard of writing. You don't see 'lense' here, except occasionally in the Classifieds by contributors with 0 posts.

The Gallery and the Gallery Picks thread are a great revelation and tutor. Editing of the written content of the forums does not occur and yet it often looks like it must have been edited. Editing of photographs is the great hidden skill of photography and the Gallery Picks teaches you that a bit.

There are wonderful people here, from all over the world.

Would I have discovered, let alone mastered the Fuji X100 in 2011 or ever if I hadn't been here? No.

Would I have forked out for the M9-P and later the Monochrom? No.

Would I have discovered the dreamy C Sonnar ZM 50? Most likely not. And now I have 5 or 6 Zeiss lenses, much cheaper than the Leitz / Leica equivalents and a lot better most of them.

Would I have finally realised the wonders of the Barnacks and tried one, let alone owned three? No.

Would I have bought a Hasselblad 500CM finally? Maybe. But probably not.

Would I have attained my current understanding of exposure and the exposure properties of colour negative film that can be exploited? Most likely not.

It is clear that RFF is beyond relevant: it is a wonder of the age that we are all very lucky to be part of. What is the future? Best not to think too much of that. Value the present: it is precious and fleeting. Hail to the chief (bartender.)
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Old 08-31-2018   #73
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Things either stay the same or they change and adapt.

If they stay the same in the face of a changed environment they dwindle and eventually, most often die. This is perhaps what would happen if the moderators of this forum were to say something like "this forum is for discussing traditional rangefinder cameras only." Doubt that? Well just imagine whether the majority of us would be here if they said something even more restricting like "this forum is only for discussing traditional film based rangefinders" We would already be gone, the vast majority of us at least.

Or the forum adapts. In fact this forum is open ended. People can discuss pretty much most things about cameras and photography. So it will continue to change as people's interests change. And so it will most likely remain relevant no matter what it is called. I certainly have no objections to it being called rangefinder forum (since that is a name already well known and respected) even if I now do most shooting with DSLRs or mirrorless cameras.

We could, I suppose, call it something like the "wheelbarrow forum". That would at least keep most of the riff raff out (except those terrible wheelbarrow riff raff) as Basil Fawlty would say. (Joking, joking please don't take me seriously if you don't know who Basil Fawlty is).

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Old 08-31-2018   #74
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That which we call a rose would smell as sweet by any other name.


RFF is a convivial community of interest - or at least it is for me.
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Old 08-31-2018   #75
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Rumor just hit the web that Panasonic is coming out with a full-frame camera. I guess we'll need another forum. :-P
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Old 09-01-2018   #76
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I have been only a "silent reader" of rff for many years.
Now I have registered here to be able to participate.
I think that is a clear statement that rff is very relevant - for me .
And with so much postings form all the members each day it is certainly relevant to all these thousands of members participating here.
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Old 09-01-2018   #77
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What is irrelevant, IMHO is making an issue out of a non-issue. This forum works for a multitude of people and covers their interests whatever they may be. That is what makes this forum such a good source of information.
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Old 09-01-2018   #78
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I also don't believe that there was a need for such a thread. I enjoy being here. If I had not enjoyed it, I would not be here. It is that simple. It is mainly about the people here and not about their camera types.
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Old 09-01-2018   #79
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Rangefinder cameras will be a tool I use for as long as I live, so the tool is relevant and therefore the site is relavent.

I shoot both film and digital and after many years of defending my use of film in the throes of Techno-Fantasia-Gasma banter I am seeing far less chaffing of viewpoints on this site so it has become exponentially more bearable on here for me in that regard.

There are issues afoot though and not unique to this site. I know a lot of young photographers who are not “Hipsters” but who will likely be lifelong image makers and often pickup rangefinder cameras and they are not participating on forums for the most part. I used to think it was old guard vs fresh eyes attitudes and friction but I don’t think is it either.

So the place has died down quite a bit in the past few years. I would post photos here but prefer to do that within the constructs of a thread and the 500 pixel limit in a world of retina screens makes it a postage stamp at best so I don’t bother. Hosting and linking to places like Flickr don’t work either because of how I limit my exposure on the web.

I think the bigger question for the future will be how do online forums in general and in current iteration stay relevant? They seem to be a slowly dying breed with an increasing percentage of the content being posts by the “Usual Suspects.”

It’s not a bad thing, just an opportunity in having a voice in reinventing the notion of why Photography is important in the first place....and how to keep it important in a world awash in images.
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Old 09-01-2018   #80
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RFF is relevant to me. I come here often, if not every day. Whether or not a picture is taken with an rangefinder camera or with any other camera, does not bother me at all. Let me turn this around...if RFF would be discontinued, I'd miss it a lot.
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