Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Rangefinder Forum > Photography General Interest

Photography General Interest Neat Photo stuff NOT particularly about Rangefinders.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

what goes into deciding which is a favourite lens?
Old 10-03-2017   #1
back alley
IMAGES
 
back alley's Avatar
 
back alley is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: true north strong & free
Posts: 49,163
what goes into deciding which is a favourite lens?

most of us can easily tell others which lens is our favourite...

but how did you come to that conclusion?
what factors went into your decision?

since i currently shoot fuji bodies and lenses exclusively my fav is the fuji 16.
the only downside is the size...not really gigantic but it is large...otherwise i love it's sharpness, it's close focusing ability, the fov...often i will see an image that strikes me and then it turns out to from the fuji 16!

what criteria do you use to determine a favourite?
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #2
f16sunshine
Moderator
 
f16sunshine's Avatar
 
f16sunshine is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Age: 51
Posts: 6,258
Good question.
It seems like one of the things that goes into my favorite lenses is selling them
My favorite M Rokkor f2/40mm and ltm Nikkor f2.5/35mm are both long gone.

The current favorite on rangefinder bodies is the Color Skopar f2.5/50mm.
It's flaws make it a favorite. It's a bit squirly wide open and up close. Renders with medium contrast (some would say high contrast).
I tested a bunch of 50's over the years. The Skopar is the perfect balance of performance and imperfections.... I don't like "clinical" apparently.

Another favorite is the Xenotar f2.8/80mm on the Rolleiflex.
It's so sharp and clean at the point of focus.
Gives a beautiful atmosphere in out of focus areas.
I'll post a couple usual suspects below.

Skopar... sharp at focus and wild behind!
Hickory and Willow by Adnan, on Flickr

Xenotar ... sharp at focus point soft kind of dreamy outside.
Lonely toys by Adnan, on Flickr
__________________
Andy
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #3
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
 
Juan Valdenebro's Avatar
 
Juan Valdenebro is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Barcelona and Colombia
Age: 47
Posts: 4,354
It should be, first, the type of photography the lens will do.
Not the best idea trying to have the same lens for sharp landscapes at infinity, beautiful defocusing for portraits, small size for street stopping down, and snapshots in low light.
Then, at least a few favorite lenses (and cameras) can be considered just the basic tools.
In my case, after considering lens use, I prefer small lenses with no distortion, and mechanical film cameras.
Only for portraits I use big lenses. And only for low light in color I use digital.
__________________
F i l m means fun!
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #4
AlexBG
Registered User
 
AlexBG is offline
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 185
My favourite is my jupiter 8, I only like photos of my family and love the softness and glow of it. Most of my 5 start lightroom photos are with that lens so scientific as well!!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #5
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
 
p.giannakis's Avatar
 
p.giannakis is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Stafford - UK
Posts: 2,322
Good question.
I would say the final outcome in terms of sharpness (or lack of it), tone reproduction, out of focus reproduction and ergonomics.

My personal favorite has been the Silvernosed Zuiko 50 f/1.4 - i love it on b&w film.

__________________
Regards,
Pan


The Monochrome Archives
Instagram



  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #6
Carey M
Registered User
 
Carey M is offline
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Finland
Posts: 72
Good haptics and compact size are pretty important criteria for me. I'm a fan of focus tabs and full-stop aperture clicks.

Still, my favourite lens is a vintage Sonnar with a clickless aperture ring (that simply never stays in place) and no focus appendage of any kind. The way it draws is just right up my alley. Sharp in just the right way, with a sort of an old timey look. Nice out of focus areas. I also like that I can use it without a hood in most situations.
__________________
Analogue at heart.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #7
airfrogusmc
Registered User
 
airfrogusmc is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,632
For me it's what best matches the way I see. I tend to see at a 35mm focal length FoV on FF camera so that is my favorite because it matches the way I see. I think that the 35 Summilux FLE really helps me in achieving the look that I desire at the F/L I see at so that is my favorite lens.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #8
zuiko85
Registered User
 
zuiko85 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,932
Favorite lens?
...................Favorite lens.......What a strange concept.
Is it the one I use the most currently? Or the one I look at the negs and say "Wow!". Or the one I salvaged off of a 80 year old Kodak folder and say "Well how about that! It did cover 4X5 with much less fall off than I thought it would have. Purdy doggone sharp too."
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #9
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
Good question.
I would say the final outcome in terms of sharpness (or lack of it), tone reproduction, out of focus reproduction and ergonomics.

My personal favorite has been the Silvernosed Zuiko 50 f/1.4 - i love it on b&w film.

I can see why, lovely image.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #10
mpaniagua
Registered User
 
mpaniagua's Avatar
 
mpaniagua is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico
Age: 46
Posts: 1,075
My favorite(s) len(s) are those that suit the mood I like (not too soft, not to sharp) and ergonomics. I love how the Summilux 50 renders but hate its ergonomics (really cant get used how it tilts the camera forward) so as much I like it, is not my favorite. Summilux 35, on the other hand, is my favorite. Collapsible Summicron and Summitar likewise.

Regards

Marcelo
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #11
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,425
When it gives the impression of how I saw the scene. Don't care about the rest.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #12
daveleo
what?
 
daveleo's Avatar
 
daveleo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: People's Republic of Mass.
Posts: 3,686
My favorite lens (I have maybe 25 ? ) changes from day to day - it's a "mood thing" with me. I tend to favor lenses that do not make coldly, clinically perfect images.

My favorite today is an SLR Magik 23mm that I just bought (got it yesterday) here from forum member rhl-oregon. Let's see how long before I switch my opinion to another favorite.
__________________
Dave

  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #13
adamr1699
Registered User
 
adamr1699's Avatar
 
adamr1699 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 51
I definitely don't have a single favorite lens. They all have different characteristics that make them great to me. For example I love the colors and the rendering of the Nikkor 28mm f/2 pre-ai, and the Rollei Sonnar 40mm 2.8 M lens is one of the best handling lenses ive every used, not to mention the great OOF quality, and the Nikkor 105 f/2.5 ltm or f mount is an amazing portrait lens.....
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #14
narsuitus
Registered User
 
narsuitus's Avatar
 
narsuitus is offline
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley View Post
what goes into deciding which is a favourite lens?"
Early in my career, I decided that the 35mm focal length on a 35mm camera was my favorite. With it, I could capture about 50% of the images I needed to capture.

In addition to the 35mm f/1.4 Nikkor on my Nikon SLR and the 35mm f/1.4 Zeiss on my Leitz 35mm rangefinder, I also use the 23mm f/1.4 on my Fuji APS-C mirrorless digital.


favorite lenses by Narsuitus, on Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #15
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,302
Summarit-M 35 2.5. Rendering on film and digital, bw and color; size and handling.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #16
icebear
Registered User
 
icebear's Avatar
 
icebear is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: just west of the big apple
Posts: 2,983
Until recently my 2/75 'cron was my least used lens.

About 2 month ago I got into a situation where a 50 was recommended but I switched my 75. The ability to fill the frame w/o getting too close to the subject paired with pretty spectacular results when printing BIG (24x36 ...inches) from full frame MM files, has this lens kind of stuck on my camera ever since. I still hate the 75mm frame "lines", corners that is.
__________________
Klaus
You have to see the light.
M9, MM & a bunch of glass, Q

my gallery:http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...d=6650&showall
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #17
maddoc
... likes film.
 
maddoc's Avatar
 
maddoc is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 名古屋
Age: 53
Posts: 7,301
40mm f/2.0 Summicron-C. Perfect combination of size, handling and performance. All my others lenses excel in the one or other way but the Summicron-C has become my to-go lens for me.
__________________
- Gabor

flickr
pBase
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-03-2017   #18
michaelwj
----------------
 
michaelwj's Avatar
 
michaelwj is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane AUS
Posts: 2,101
Easy, just compute the favorite factor (F);

F = 2E x R

where E = enjoyment of use, R equals quality of results.

(the factor of 2 (2E) is because the enjoyment of use is twice as important as the quality of results - almost all lenses deliver quality results)
__________________
Cheers,
Michael
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-04-2017   #19
Dogman
Registered User
 
Dogman is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,480
Joe's question, "What criteria do you use to determine a favorite (lens)?"

Utility and focal length are at the top of my list. Focal length is self explanatory. Utility is subjective. For me, utility involves handling, mechanical/electronic functioning, size, weight and optical characteristics.

My favorite focal lengths are 35mm and 50mm equivalents--I use these focal lengths about 50/50 so I can't really decide one is more favorite over the other. Optically, both the Fujinon 23/1.4 and 35/1.4 have the most pleasing results to my eyes. But both the Fujinon 23/2 and 35/2 are better handling and have better autofocus. And then there's the 23mm lens on the X100 series--it has to be considered one of the 35mm equivalent favorites.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-04-2017   #20
charjohncarter
Registered User
 
charjohncarter's Avatar
 
charjohncarter is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Danville, CA, USA
Posts: 8,735
I find emotional attachment is big on my list. My Elmar f3.5 50mm I've had for 53years just always feels right with great results. The same goes for my Pentax f1.4 50mm (owned for 48 years). Even though I have a wonderful in everyway that I like a f2.0 35mm Pentax FA (6-7 years), it wouldn't call it a 'favorite.'
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-04-2017   #21
back alley
IMAGES
 
back alley's Avatar
 
back alley is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: true north strong & free
Posts: 49,163
just to clarify...i'm not asking for any choice here, not looking for 'the' favourite but 'a' favourite.
really just trying to get a feel for what we look at...
when i get a new lens it often times becomes a favourite...i bought the 56 years ago thinking about portraits but loved it on the street...no saying how a lens might surprise us.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-04-2017   #22
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 78
Posts: 5,989
I don't know that I have a favorite lens, but I do have a favorite focal length. It's the one that frames the area that contains the essence of what I saw that made me want to take the picture. Foe me, that is usually 35mm. That probably explains why I have five 35mm Leica lenses, and a sixth on the way. To my eye, it is the "natural vision" angle of view. And the 35mm equivalent field of the X100 makes it an often-used camera.

Edit: And it didn't occur to me to mention that I do prefer a small lens to a larger one; not only on my Leicas, but even with my Nikon SLRs and DSLRs. I may reach for the smaller of two lenses whether it is the "better" one or not.

Edit 2: It has to look good on the camera. (How many want the Elmar-M just for its looks?)
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #23
mdarnton
Registered User
 
mdarnton is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,262
For me it almost always comes down to ergonomics not some esoteric image quality consideration. Modern lenses are all good enough for something, but they don't all work equally well.

For instance, my 50/1.1 Nokton, with it's slippery, relatively-toothless focus ring, got no time on the camera at all until I fitted it with a TAAB (http://www.lenstab.com/) focusing ring; now it's #1 on my M4. My other favorite is a collapsible Summicron, because I can wear it and the camera under a jacket in bad weather or on a belt clip. I have a 28/2 Nikon lens for my FG, but though I like the focal length and speed a lot, the 24/2.8 is MUCH easier to focus, for some reason, so it's the one I use more.

My mind seems to automatically move over to the focal length I have on the camera to find photos appropriate for what the camera is wearing, so that's not really a big issue for me. Often I will take an odd FL lens to force my head into a different mode so things don't always look so much the same.
__________________
Thanks, but I'd rather just watch:
Mostly 35mm: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdarnton
Large format: http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldarnton
What? You want digital, color, etc?: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stradofear
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #24
Richard G
Registered User
 
Richard G's Avatar
 
Richard G is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: 37,47 S
Posts: 5,148
For a long time the 50 C Sonnar Zeiss, lighter and more compact than my previous favorite, the E43 Summilux. The thin plane of focus at 1.5 is not always easy to use but some shots are magic. Even at f5.6 the dreaminess is still there.

The 35 Summicron v4 is so compact and gives a lovely creamy tonality on film.

The Zeiss 21 4.5 is so straight.

I could go on.
__________________
Richard
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #25
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
 
nukecoke's Avatar
 
nukecoke is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Sweden/China
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdarnton View Post
For me it almost always comes down to ergonomics not some esoteric image quality consideration. Modern lenses are all good enough for something, but they don't all work equally well.
Basically this.

I don't have a favourite lens. In general I like small sized lenses since I almost always want compactness, especially for RF and small SLRs.

Sharpness is not a problem for most lenses we can get our hands on today.

And bokeh. There was a quiz post on this forum showing different bokeh from different RF lenses a coupe of months ago. I failed to identify any of them bokeh-wise. So I guess bokeh doesn't bother me, so it goes with sharpness.
__________________
tumblr

flickr(abandoned)

About Film Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #26
Darshan
Registered User
 
Darshan's Avatar
 
Darshan is offline
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 954
For me, the factor that decides what lens I get is the focal length.
Then I look for sharpness, character etc among lenses of the same FL.
Thereafter comes the ergonomics.
__________________
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; argument an exchange of ignorance." - Robert Quillen

my flickr
RFF feedback
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #27
Arbitrarium
Registered User
 
Arbitrarium's Avatar
 
Arbitrarium is offline
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 319
I look for a combination of sharpness and character. Currently enjoying an M42 Pancolar and got a Super Ikonta III with 3.5 Tessar being CLA'd currently, bought based on results I've seen of the lens (and because I love folders).

I know in terms of M42 mount, the Asahi Takumars are considered the sharpest but for me, they lack character. I always found Pentax lenses to be too clinical. The Pancolar is lovely, great colours and feel. Garbage wide open, but I can live with that.

__________________
Arbitrarium on Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #28
one90guy
Registered User
 
one90guy's Avatar
 
one90guy is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas Gulf Coast
Age: 71
Posts: 326
My favorite lens a LTM 85mm f/2.0. used on either my Canon P or Olympus 4/3. Love the colors from the Oly and B/W from the Canon. The Color Skopar 21mm f/4.0 is gaining ground.


David
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #29
AlwaysOnAuto
Registered User
 
AlwaysOnAuto's Avatar
 
AlwaysOnAuto is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 545
For me it is the sharpness of all types of photos I've taken with it.
I like it so much I went out and bought another copy of it.
And on my budget, that is saying a lot.
__________________
IIIa, M3, some lenses + digital
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #30
Contarama
Registered User
 
Contarama is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,249
After several years I have discovered that I must enjoy using a lens for it to become a 'favorite'. If I do not like using one then it is culled. Leaving me with a set of lenses...all of them favorites!
__________________
Art is the ability to make something...even if it is a big mess...
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #31
oftheherd
Registered User
 
oftheherd's Avatar
 
oftheherd is offline
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,905
I tend to go with what will give me the shot I envisioned. If it isn't a 50mm, then I, as apparently Joe does, see wide, 28mm to 18mm. I have found I often like 24mm as well. I just never could see the reasoning behind 35mm.
__________________
My Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #32
lxmike
Barnack fan
 
lxmike's Avatar
 
lxmike is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Co Durham NE England
Age: 53
Posts: 3,305
I have had a few favs over the years, currently trying out a CV Nokton 1.5 ltm, but all in all my all time fave is the Fuji 35/1.4 that lives on my x pro, why.........the images it produces, as simple as that
__________________
Currently loaded: Leica, MDa, IIIg and Bronica ERTS.

Glass currently in regular use: Voigtlander 15mm 4.5 Helliar, 35mm Summaron.

Soon to arrive: a boat load of HP5
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #33
Ccoppola82
Registered User
 
Ccoppola82 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 323
for me, I researched the hell out of lenses that are known to produce what I want in terms of imaging. Preparing that way has given me a set of lenses which work well together. I do have some specialty lenses which I use for low light or just purely for something different, but for the most part I have a 35 and 50 in my bag at all times. All my leica glass performs well enough that the "favorite" has more to do with its ergonomics. That said, my Summaron 2.8 and Cron rigid are nearly always in my bag. I have been playing with a 1934 Sonnar uncoated 50 1.5 but I've yet to shoot enough film through it to call it a favorite just yet. I DO really like what I'm getting though.
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-05-2017   #34
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,596
My 50mm C Sonnar fits the parameters ... I love the way it renders and the focus shift keeps you on your game. It's been my favourite lens for several years now.
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-06-2017   #35
BillBingham2
Registered User
 
BillBingham2's Avatar
 
BillBingham2 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ames, Iowa, USA
Posts: 5,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukecoke View Post
Basically this......
So I guess bokeh doesn't bother me, .....
Bokeh bothers me as I can't figure out how to pronounce it correctly.......

For me it's a combination of things. Oddly it's different for every camera body. On the S2 it's internal mount 50mms. On a Bessa L it's the 25/4 Snap-Shot. On my F2 it's the Nikkor 28/2.8 AIs. On a Nikkormat it's a Nikkor 85/1.8.

As mentioned before most every lens I've purchased is sharp-enough for me. The lens needs to feel right on the camera. I'm a big proponent of flare resistance and lack of distortion. While I like my Nikkor 24/2.8 it reshaped heads into footballs when I wasn't looking (and some times even when I was).

For me it's a combination of the camera and lens that makes it my favorite.

B2 (;->
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-06-2017   #36
Canyongazer
Canyongazer
 
Canyongazer's Avatar
 
Canyongazer is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oftheherd View Post
If it isn't a 50mm, then I... see wide, 28mm to 18mm. I have found I often like 24mm as well. I just never could see the reasoning behind 35mm.
+1

Normal is my default. When I need wider, I go wiiider....
To me, real wide angles don't start 'til you get to 28mm.
__________________

Fuji X Pro2
Fuji X E2
Fuji X100s
Panasonic GX1 w/ 20mm F1.7
Nikon D800E


introspection.zenfolio.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-06-2017   #37
back alley
IMAGES
 
back alley's Avatar
 
back alley is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: true north strong & free
Posts: 49,163
Bokeh bothers me as I can't figure out how to pronounce it correctly....

i pronounce it...bow k...
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-06-2017   #38
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is online now
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 61
Posts: 9,974
I tend to develop favorites defined by usage, meaning for instance/example a 28 Cron on my Monochrom. Pretty much I eventually figure out the lens that best suits a particular body because eventually it becomes like creating a fixed lens camera because lenses become seldom changed.

Here are some examples of my current fixed lens cameras:

28 Cron/Monochrom
58/1.2 Noct-Nikkor AIS/F3P
35/1.8 Nikkor LTM/ Wetzlar M6
50 Rigid/Hammertone M4 repaint
50 Lux-SL/Leica SL
50 Lux-R "E60"/SL2-MOT
21/3.4 SEM/ MD-2
75/2.8 AL/ Pentax 67 II with AE prism
53/4.5 Zeiss Biogon/Linhof Tech V prototype
100/2.8 Zeiss Planar/Linhof Tech IV

Anyways call me a lazy slacker. I don't like changing lenses. LOL. No need to really change a lens once it is optimized and mated with the appropriate body.

I tend to cull down the lenses that are surplus, or I hunt down a new body to build yet another camera to keep a lens. Makes no sense to me to have a lens as a shelf queen, and all my rigged cameras get cycled and used.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-06-2017   #39
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is online now
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 61
Posts: 9,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by back alley View Post
Bokeh bothers me as I can't figure out how to pronounce it correctly....

i pronounce it...bow k...
Joe,

As a minority and person of color I take great pride in butchering language.

I pronounce it Bow-Key.

My gal went to Catholic school. I never really learned proper enuciation, spelling, and I really annoy my gal with words I create, invent, my slang, and my otherwise improper use of language.

Whenever she corrects me I tell her she is not only being rude, but also oppressive. As a person of color and as a minority, I explain that it is my duty as well as my right to butcher language. I am advancing culture I tell her and also am expressing myself. Slang is not developed by the mainstream.

BTW she still corrects me.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-06-2017   #40
back alley
IMAGES
 
back alley's Avatar
 
back alley is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: true north strong & free
Posts: 49,163
trust that i have no idea if i say it correctly or not...most ways sound 'wrong' to my ears.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:41.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.