"New" ISO400 BW film from Japan Camera Hunter!
Old 03-17-2016   #1
squirrel$$$bandit
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"New" ISO400 BW film from Japan Camera Hunter!

Bellamy is reviving an old traffic-camera emulsion for use in 35mm cameras, and has opened preorders. Shipping in a few months. Looks cool!

http://www.japancamerahunter.com/201...tpan-400-film/

Quote:
About a year ago I started to make inquiries about what I could do and the options available. That was when I decided I wanted to start off with a 400 monochrome film as it the sort of film that I shoot the most and I was terribly upset when Neopan was axed. I wanted something bold, slightly grainy and with a strong contrast.

Now, I couldn’t have a completely new emulsion made, so I decided to go with an old discontinued surveillance film that was original made by AGFA. And thus JCH StreetPan was born! So this is a re-born film, not a re-spooled film that is still being sold.
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Old 03-17-2016   #2
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Seems like a great idea ... but at nearly twelve dollars a roll Aust it ain't cheap.
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Old 03-17-2016   #3
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Good for him... nice little project that I'm sure felt good to get done. I do love the "come show your support" type of marketing though.
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Old 03-17-2016   #4
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> And thus JCH StreetPan was born! So this is a re-born film, not a re-spooled film that is still being sold.

That's pretty impressive, really. Who else can say they brought a film back from the dead?! No one here, I bet

I guess it is a bit on the pricey side, but not unreasonably so. Especially compared to the local prices of other B&W ISO 400 films. I'll certainly be giving this new film a go when I get the chance.
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Old 03-17-2016   #5
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now I only wonder where this place is called Belguim
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Old 03-17-2016   #6
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Every box sold is a good box as they will bring profit to the company and they will "make" more!

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Old 03-17-2016   #7
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I am really happy for Bellamy, especially because it was his birthday when he wrote this, but can someone explain to me, how this film would be twice better than HP5+, given that in Europe it will be twice as expensive? Contrast or spectral sensitivity can always be adjusted with filters and development. I think that if one wants to sell one apple at the cost of two, he really has to be convinced his apple is an outright winner.
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Old 03-17-2016   #8
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I wonder how the price of this film compares to similar film in Japan? Jon?
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Old 03-17-2016   #9
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Im confused by the dev times... 22 minutes for rodinal at 1:50? 17 min for xtol 1:1?? yet ilfosol 3 and hc110 seem to have normal times to every other film.

R09 One Shot (Rodinal) 1 + 25 10:30
R09 One Shot (Rodinal) 1 + 50 22:00
R09 Spezial / Studional 1 + 15 8:30
R09 Spezial / Studionial 1 + 31 17:00
Rollei Supergrain 1 + 12 7:00
Rollei RLS (ISO 200/24°) 1 + 4 14:30 (24°)
Ilford Ilfosol 3 1 + 3 5:00
Illord ID-11 / Kodak D-76 1 +1 10:50
Ilford Perceptol 1 + 1 10:00
Kodak HC-110 B (1+31) 5:00
Kodak X-Tol 1 + 1 17:00
Tanol (ISO 200/24°) 1 + 1 + 100 19:30
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Old 03-17-2016   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfogiel View Post
I am really happy for Bellamy, especially because it was his birthday when he wrote this, but can someone explain to me, how this film would be twice better than HP5+, given that in Europe it will be twice as expensive? Contrast or spectral sensitivity can always be adjusted with filters and development. I think that if one wants to sell one apple at the cost of two, he really has to be convinced his apple is an outright winner.
I guess in Europe you could simply order Rollei Retro 400S from Maco for 4.30 Euro/roll, but of course you would miss the flashy box and the film wouldn't have to travel all the way to Japan and then back.
Be prepared for some extended testing, this film is quite finicky when it comes to exposure and development. At least this is my experience. I gave up after 5 rolls (this was in 120), but your mileage may vary.
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Old 03-17-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Im confused by the dev times... 22 minutes for rodinal at 1:50? 17 min for xtol 1:1?? yet ilfosol 3 and hc110 seem to have normal times to every other film.

R09 One Shot (Rodinal) 1 + 25 10:30
R09 One Shot (Rodinal) 1 + 50 22:00
R09 Spezial / Studional 1 + 15 8:30
R09 Spezial / Studionial 1 + 31 17:00
Rollei Supergrain 1 + 12 7:00
Rollei RLS (ISO 200/24°) 1 + 4 14:30 (24°)
Ilford Ilfosol 3 1 + 3 5:00
Illord ID-11 / Kodak D-76 1 +1 10:50
Ilford Perceptol 1 + 1 10:00
Kodak HC-110 B (1+31) 5:00
Kodak X-Tol 1 + 1 17:00
Tanol (ISO 200/24°) 1 + 1 + 100 19:30
This seems mostly spot on for Retro 400S (or Agfa Aviphot 400S for that matter), but I guess some typos (llfosol 3?) may have happened when the dev times were put together from different sources.
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Old 03-17-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Seems like a great idea ... but at nearly twelve dollars a roll Aust it ain't cheap.
I like the idea of the film, and at about 8 dollars or so a roll US, it is a little expensive. Still, a brand new run of film, and a near IR film at that, maybe it isn't so expensive, just not the film to take out and burn multiple rolls at every outing.

I'm going to try it and hope the price starts going down if enough other people start buying and using it.
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Old 03-17-2016   #13
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Looking at the description Bellamy Hunt gives, this film is the discontinued Agfa Aviphot Pan 400. This film was used both as aerial and traffic surveillance film. Same is valid for Aviphot Pan 200 and the old Kodak Hawkeye, all used both as aerial and surveillance films.
I've used the Aviphot Pan 400 (at that time it was also available as Rollei Retro 400S, first version).
But I got the result that the Aviphot Pan 400 was only 1° DIN = 1/3 stop faster than the cheaper Aviphot Pan 200 (Rollei Superpan 200). Therefore I stayed with Aviphot Pan 200 / Superpan 200.

After the discontinuation of Aviphot Pan 400 Rollei put the Aviphot Pan 200 in the Rollei Retro 400S boxes.
Therefore now Aviphot Pan 200 = Superpan 200 = Retro 400S = Rollei IR.
That is fresh film, current production. And almost identical to the former Aviphot Pan 400 = JCH film.
But the current Rollei options are much much cheaper than the JCH film (which is old stock).

My conclusion: Buying the JCH stuff has only disadvantages compared to buying the Rollei Stuff.
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Old 03-17-2016   #14
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I've been using a Maco AQS surveillance film which I think is rebadged rollei retro 400s. It's still quite inexpensive, you can get it here in Australia for $65 for 150ft. If you roll it out yourself that's only $2 a roll.
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Old 03-17-2016   #15
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That is great news, I'm hoping that someone makes some more color film. I was in
B&H last week standing on line buying film and as I looked around their were three
other people buying film as well, so I guess the more film the better.
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Old 03-17-2016   #16
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Hi nhchen, I would be interested in your experience with Maco AQS. I have been working a bulk roll myself and have been planning to start a thread on it, as info is pretty sketchy.

I have worked out some times for exposure at 320 and 640 in rodinal 1+25 but am looking to work some out for ei 400 in D-76 for use in a point and shoot.

Please look out for thread later on today and share your experiences!
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Old 03-17-2016   #17
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The only product I liked from Bellamy was the kimono strap which he sadly discontinued before I decided to buy it.

But hey, it's a surveillance film, it was made for street!
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Old 03-17-2016   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I wonder how the price of this film compares to similar film in Japan? Jon?
Its on par with local prices for similar films, John. In comparison, HP5+ is 1,010 yen per roll, Tri-X is 937 yen per roll, and T-MAX 400 is 1,050 yen per roll. The days of 430 yen per roll of Neopan 400 are long gone here.
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Old 03-17-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Its on par with local prices for similar films, John. In comparison, HP5+ is 1,010 yen per roll, Tri-X is 937 yen per roll, and T-MAX 400 is 1,050 yen per roll. The days of 430 yen per roll of Neopan 400 are long gone here.
But this film isn't Tmax, isn't HP5+, isn't TriX and most definitely has nothing to do with deceased Neopan 400.
This is a rebadged film, sold (at the moment) for premium money. The partial IR sensitivity makes for something way more similar to Rollei Retro 400S as already pointed out than the other mentioned 400iso films.
And on Silversalt.jp a single roll of Rollei Retro 400S is 550 yen (495 yen/roll if one gets the 10pack offer, not available at the moment).

http://www.silversalt.jp/index.php?m...roducts_id=109
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Old 03-17-2016   #20
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Agfa surveillance film? This is begging to be released in Robot cartridges.
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Old 03-18-2016   #21
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Sorry friends, but how ridiculous ist that film??
Bellamy Hunt is always complaining, extremely loud and harsh, about discontinued films, and now he is introducing a
discontinued film!
Leftover film stock from a corner in a warehouse, which has absolutely no future, because that film type will never be produced again.
When the stock is depleted, its over for this film!

And the customer don't get any additional benefit at all!! If you want that film look, just use the (almost) identical Rollei Retro 400S, Superpan 200 and Rollei IR (= Agfa Aviphot Pan 200).
Then you have fresh film from current production, not many years old stock like the JCH film. And it is cheaper, too.

And photographers who are buying this film then have not the money anymore to buy film which is really currently produced at active manufacturers like Adox, Ilford, Fuji, Kodak, Foma, Agfa.
This relabeling of old warehouse stock is only decreasing demand for currently produced film! We don't need that at all!!!

Looks like B. Hunt is thinking we as customers are so stupid not to be realising that we are being ripped off.
First this stupid and counterproductive bashing campaign against Fuji, and now this.
I've completely lost my trust in JCH.
What he is currently doing is very bad for the film community.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 03-18-2016   #22
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What a silly over-reaction. He is increasing choice, being completely open about what the product is, and therefore manifestly not ripping anyone off.
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Old 03-18-2016   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul T. View Post
He is increasing choice,
No, he is not increasing choice.
You get exactly the same look, sharpness, resolution, fineness of grain etc. by using Aviphot Pan 200 = Rollei Retro 400S = Rollei Superpan 200 = Rollei IR. Which is fresh film, and offered at much lower prices.
There are absolutely no new benefits available from this JCH film.
Only disadvantages like much higher price and negative effects on the demand for real film production.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 03-18-2016   #24
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Henning your posting is a bit harsh. Also every news about a "new" film is good news, as it at least suggests that there is still a market for analogue photography. This in turn helps the film industry as a whole, because it counters the argument, by many anti-film or People who simply don't know any better, that film is dead.
Quiet a few People who would love to shoot film, are afraid of investing in a dead Technology. So again this news is good news, of course it would be better news if it really were a new film.
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Old 03-18-2016   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
Henning your posting is a bit harsh.
My name is Jan Hendrik Heuer, not Jan Henning Heuer. Thank you for considering that in the future .

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
Also every news about a "new" film is good news, as it at least suggests that there is still a market for analogue photography. This in turn helps the film industry as a whole, because it counters the argument, by many anti-film or People who simply don't know any better, that film is dead.
In this case with Bellamy Hunt that is absolutely not true.
Because for years he himself give food to the "film is dead" mood with his campaign against Fuji.
Which was often very ridiculous.
Example: He has recently complained that Fuji has stopped production of GF670, Klasse W, Natura cameras. These cameras were introduced after the digital revolution has started. Fuji was the only film manufacturer who did this! Kodak has not produced film cameras for over two decades! Real film cameras from Ilford? No, only pinholes. From Agfa? No. From Foma? No.

But did he criticise all the other film manufacturers for not producing film cameras? No, he did not!
But Fuji, who have produced excellent film cameras during the digital revolution, is harshly criticised by him.
Sorry, for me that is extremely unfair.

In January he criticised Fuji for raising prices. But a bit later in February Kodak raised prices even more. Did he criticise Kodak then? No, not with one word.

And he always make big reports about negative news, but is very often ignoring the good news. Lots of new products from European manufacturers like Adox, Moersch, Spur, Tetenal and so on were never mentioned by him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
Quiet a few People who would love to shoot film, are afraid of investing in a dead Technology.
They are investing in a dead film with his film.
But they could instead invest in fresh production from Ilford, Adox, Fuji, Kodak, Foma, Agfa / Rollei-Film.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 03-18-2016   #26
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I'm with jan on this one. He is entirely correct and the fact that no one can see it is disappointing. I'm sure Bellamy is a great guy and I have nothing against him but I don't see a point of buying this film.

I feel the same about fpp re spooling their films and selling off Eastman stock taking sales away from Alaris making ACTUAL FRESH film. I've voiced it numerous times to which people become silent.

I shoot 100% film. I don't have any digital cameras. I believe in film and I buy fresh films from current manufactures.
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Old 03-18-2016   #27
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I agree with Dominik - film sales are not purely a zero-sum equation: releasing a 'new' film (at least a film perceived as new by the majority of non-expert enthusiasts out there), creates a buzz and feelgood around film that has positive effects on all film sales, in my opinion.

When a newbie like me wants to try out new films we're simply happy there are still many to choose from - it actually encourages me to buy and try more films. I don't feel the need to cower in a bunker and wonder when the next film company is set to explode in a mess of burning celluloid above my head; I can enjoy the optimistic buzz instead.

A lot of people get this feeling, and it pulls in an ever greater crowd of waverers who would otherwise be scared away by what many believe is a 'loser' technology. We don't need to give the anti-film crowd any more help - most photography sites are already on their side, because their financial self-interest lies in keeping the digital treadmill rolling.
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Old 03-18-2016   #28
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I hate the internet sometimes, as it gives a pulpit to bitter people with an axe to grind. Hence a thread about something good, a new film being available, is being derailed.

I don't know why you have this strange bee in your bonnet, Jan. You're not even telling the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
You get exactly the same look, sharpness, resolution, fineness of grain etc. by using Aviphot Pan 200 = Rollei Retro 400S = Rollei Superpan 200 = Rollei IR.
No, it's self evident it is NOT exactly the same. Similar, yes. How co you get the same "look" with a different film speed. He is being honest about what he offers, and your dismissal, saying two similar films are EXACTLY the same, is dishonest.

I presume you've had a run-in with this guy at some point, hence your beef. I've dealt with JCH, and found him upstanding and honest, with no slippery statements like the ones you've just made.
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Old 03-18-2016   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Its on par with local prices for similar films, John. In comparison, HP5+ is 1,010 yen per roll, Tri-X is 937 yen per roll, and T-MAX 400 is 1,050 yen per roll. The days of 430 yen per roll of Neopan 400 are long gone here.
Thanks, that is what I figured.
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Old 03-18-2016   #30
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EDIT: Bellamy has updated his post to state: "This is a freshly produced emulsion with an expiry date of 2020. The film was no longer being produced and I had it put back into production."

Last edited by ProviaFan : 03-18-2016 at 21:35. Reason: New information
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Old 03-18-2016   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
My name is Jan Hendrik Heuer, not Jan Henning Heuer. Thank you for considering that in the future .



In this case with Bellamy Hunt that is absolutely not true.
Because for years he himself give food to the "film is dead" mood with his campaign against Fuji.
Which was often very ridiculous.
Example: He has recently complained that Fuji has stopped production of GF670, Klasse W, Natura cameras. These cameras were introduced after the digital revolution has started. Fuji was the only film manufacturer who did this! Kodak has not produced film cameras for over two decades! Real film cameras from Ilford? No, only pinholes. From Agfa? No. From Foma? No.

But did he criticise all the other film manufacturers for not producing film cameras? No, he did not!
But Fuji, who have produced excellent film cameras during the digital revolution, is harshly criticised by him.
Sorry, for me that is extremely unfair.

In January he criticised Fuji for raising prices. But a bit later in February Kodak raised prices even more. Did he criticise Kodak then? No, not with one word.

And he always make big reports about negative news, but is very often ignoring the good news. Lots of new products from European manufacturers like Adox, Moersch, Spur, Tetenal and so on were never mentioned by him.



They are investing in a dead film with his film.
But they could instead invest in fresh production from Ilford, Adox, Fuji, Kodak, Foma, Agfa / Rollei-Film.

Cheers, Jan
Sorry confused you with Henning Serger who has similar opinions as you do. Again sorry

ProviaFan can't say that I agree good news about film helps everyone involved in the industry. While Jan makes some very valid points, he also puts out bad news and bad news is about 10x as powerful as good news. (We humans are weird that way). Also most of his critic isn't directed at the product itself but the person/company behind it. Of course we all wish for new emulsions priced at 1€ but this ain't really gonna happen unless someone with loads of money and real love for analogue photography enters the market.
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Old 03-18-2016   #32
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Dear Paul, with all respect, but you don't know what your are talking about because you have not used this film.
Lots of other photographers including me know this stuff. We used it back then when it was in production and sold under different types and names.
Selling this film as ISO 400/27° is not honest, because that material has a much lower effective speed.
You are a victim of this marketing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul T. View Post
How co you get the same "look" with a different film speed.
Because in reality there is only a tiny difference in effective speed. I measured 1/3 stop difference to Aviphot Pan 200. Photographer friends evaluated that, too.
That is a not significant difference. The tolerances in light meters and development are often higher.
I bet that neither you nor anyone else could in a blind test identify whether a picture is made on JCH film or on Rollei Superpan 200, Retro 400S etc.

If you want to pay much more for a film which is already many years old instead of fresh film....go for it.The photo world is a free one, fortunately. But please don't complain when another film of current production must be discontinued because of lack of demand.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 03-18-2016   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProviaFan View Post
Taking old stock and throwing it in a shiny new box reminds me of putting lipstick on a pig. I just don't see how this benefits anything more than someone flipping expired film on ebay.
Here is something I don't understand - is the film simply 'old stock in a new box' as critics are repeatedly stating in this thread, or is it new production of an old film formula?

PS: Incidentally, I hope the people stating unequivocally that this is 'years old' film are certain what they are saying is true.
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Old 03-18-2016   #34
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Film saviors of the world please unite against this horrible human being repackaging old film...
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Old 03-18-2016   #35
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Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
Again sorry
No problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
ProviaFan can't say that I agree good news about film helps everyone involved in the industry. While Jan makes some very valid points, he also puts out bad news and bad news is about 10x as powerful as good news. (We humans are weird that way).
That negative news is more powerful than positive news is unfortunately right.
But please tell that Mr. Hunt, who, as I've explained above, was very active in reporting about bad news, and very often ignored good news.
And I am not putting out bad news.
I am just saying that if you want such a film look, you can get exactly that by buying Superpan 200, Retro 400S and Rollei IR. And you get that look from fresh material, and at much lower costs. I think that is good news .
It saves you money, and you can buy more film. Good for film production.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 03-18-2016   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
Here is something I don't understand - is the film simply 'old stock in a new box' as critics are repeatedly stating in this thread, or is it new production of an old film formula?
It is old stock in a new box.
Bellamy Hunt himself has said that in his statement.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 03-18-2016   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Leftover film stock from a corner in a warehouse, which has absolutely no future, because that film type will never be produced again.
When the stock is depleted, its over for this film!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
If you want to pay much more for a film which is already many years old instead of fresh film....go for it.
These are bold claims, Jan. JCH says on his website "So this is a re-born film, not a re-spooled film that is still being sold."

Can you offer any evidence to support your claims? Or are you just making stuff up?

Quote:
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It is old stock in a new box.
Bellamy Hunt himself has said that in his statement.
What statement? Where?
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Old 03-18-2016   #38
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Film saviors of the world please unite against this horrible human being repackaging old film...
As your contributions to these discussions are universally anti-film I have to wonder why you feel the need to add your voice to this discussion, unless you actually have any information to add?
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Old 03-18-2016   #39
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Originally Posted by mani View Post
As your contributions to these discussions are universally anti-film I have to wonder why you feel the need to add your voice to this discussion, unless you actually have any information to add?
I'm not anti-film at all...I love photography in general. I was just making a light-hearted comment regarding the personal nature of this thread (in hopes that you guys would get it). Instead I'll spell it out. Perhaps you guys can keep your comments related to the film instead of personally attacking the individual?
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Old 03-18-2016   #40
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
These are bold claims, Jan. JCH says on his website "So this is a re-born film, not a re-spooled film that is still being sold."
Can you offer any evidence to support your claims? Or are you just making stuff up?
What statement? Where?
This statement, in his introduction thread:
"Now, I couldn’t have a completely new emulsion made, so I decided to go with an old discontinued surveillance film that was original made by AGFA."
And the technical data he has given is that of the discontinued (out of production for several years) Aviphot Pan 400S / Agfa surveillance material.
This film was available back then from different sources in Europe.

"Re-born" is marketing blabla. Some leftover raw film (probably pancakes) is just cut and spooled into 35mm cassettes.
Usual business of rebadging companies for years. Lomo has done that, Maco has done that, FPP has done that, Washi film and lots of others have done that.

Cheers, Jan
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