IXMOO - best bulk film daylight loader ?
Old 01-26-2016   #1
menos
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IXMOO - best bulk film daylight loader ?

Now I have assembled a nice set of IXMOO cassettes, an ABLON and restocked with D-76, Rapidfixer and archive sleeves, I would like to add that bulk film loader to actually use those IXMOOs.

What would be the finest of finest bulk film loaders one can buy new today outer - the Mercedes Benz of bulk film loaders so to speak?

I plan to load 100ft rolls into the loader in a changing bag and load the IXMOOs in daylight in the studio without worrying of fogging film.

I plan to shoot ISO 400 B+W film, usually shot at ISO400 - 1600.

I was recommended this:
AP Bobinquick 135 bulk film daylight loader (also sold under the Kaiser Fototechnik brand)

but I read that the film loader should have a function to close the IXMOO cassette - does this loader allow that?

I am clueless, having kicked a buying decision of film loader and bulk film in front of me for the last year just as of the confusion of a gazillion of different loaders
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Old 01-28-2016   #2
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Hi Dirk

Since there have been no replies, I guess I can add what little I know. I'm afraid I don't know the Bobinquick but use an Alden loader (the model that takes 200ft rolls). I believe the internet wisdom says Alden loaders work with IXMOOs. Though I do have such a few such cassettes I haven't tried them in my loader (I use "modern" plastic cassettes instead) so I can't answer your question specifically (sorry).

I hope other members can offer more specific help. I'm also interested in knowing more about good loaders, esp. those that don't waste frames (mine will unless I load it in the dark).

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Old 01-28-2016   #3
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I have a Watson loader that is supposed to work with ixmoo's. I used to use it quite a bit with Nikon cassettes. For the ixmoo the Watson requires a thin shim in place where the crank goes thru. This shim is often missing so if you shop for one look for the shim. It is a light grey color in contrast to the dark grey of the Watson. Understand also that with a bulk loader the last few exposures will be exposed to light and no good. I put a piece of tape on the closure knob with an arrow showing which way to turn. I used to listen carefully when turning the knob to close the cassette to hear the cassette click shut. Good Luck. Joe
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Old 01-28-2016   #4
Alan Philpotts
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Hi Dirk

The cassette chamber on my AP Bobinquick is too short to take an IXMOO or FILCA. Neither does it have the cam needed to open and close them. It works fine with modern cassettes.

For IXMOO loading, I use a Restem De Luxe loader (which I understand may be a copy of a Watson loader). It has a cam for opening and closing Leitz cassettes.

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Old 01-28-2016   #5
Ronald M
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Watson works fine. Bench winder and darkroom is better as you do not expose the tail causing double exposure.

Grey Watsons are far superior as they hold the film down on the sprocket wheel.

I had to modify my 1960 black one with feelers to hold the film down. The door also pops open occasionally so I loaded in the dark.

All the issues are gone with the grey one.

Properly trimming the point to lock the film into the spool is super important.
The arrow needs to be cut so you do not cut through the film sprocket holes.
Only the real Leitz sets up the the shape. The generic one for $5 only work to trim the leader.

A properly trimmed point can be pulled through the spool core when you are ready to reload. A malformed one could require the core be disassembled. This is not easy or fun.

Unfortunately the proper Leitz template are at collector prices.
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Old 01-28-2016   #6
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Watson 33b .. although the frame counter doesn't really work on mine. I just count the turns.

[obviously mistake edit] I meant the 66B.
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Old 01-28-2016   #7
Tom A
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I don't use daylight loaders - just my darkroom and the fully stretched out arms to get 37-38 frames.
The critical part of loading IXMOO's either way is to cut the "leade"r correctly. When you feed it into the centre spool - check that a small tip protrudes through the opposite end of the spool. This allows you to pull out the locked in part once you have torn off the film for loading in the tank. Otherwise you have to poke in the slot to get out the small piece!
It is also critical that the film fits properly between the flanges of the spool. It can easily "creep" up over the flange and jam inside the IXMOO! It is also common that the film curls a bit when you get to the last 20 feet of the 100 or 400 ft roll. The "curve" around the centre spool is steep and the film wants to roll back into that position.
All this reminds that I faced with loading 72-73 IXMOO's this week (400 ft can of Kodak XX). Hate doing it - but once done I don't have to do it for a couple of month!
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Old 01-28-2016   #8
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Wow - thank you guys, what a flurry of great responses and help ;-)

@ Alan - thanks to your comment I saved the money to buy one of these. It has been recommended by a friend but he wasn't sure about using IXMOO cassettes in this loader, which otherwise looks great (these came under many brands, among them Kaiser, Konica Hi-Loader, AP, Arista, …).

@ Ronald - I see only black Watson loaders with grey controls on eBay - is this the "grey model" you refer to or are there all grey ones?

Based on what you guys commented, I will look out to get get both, a nice copy of an Alden or Watson day light loader and some light tightening gear to be able to load completely in the dark as Tom suggested.

After watching some Alden / Watson loading videos on youtube I do now understand the big advantage of doing it in the dark - it seems so much more reasonable and easier too (no loss of film, no fiddling with loaders and best of all: good, unexposed frames all the way to frame 38).
The daylight loaders though look convenient for quickly loading a cassette - I will try both over time I guess.

One question regarding fixing the film to the spool inside the IXMOO cassettes.
You regular IXMOO users - do you cut the film lip with the ABLON template to use the IXMOO cassettes as intended or to you use masking tape to fix the film instead?

Did your film ever slip out of the cassette in the camera when using the IXMOO as intended (did the clip not hold the film properly)?

I have a few cassettes which seem to have the small clip missing, so masking tape will be the only option on these).

A last question about bulk film itself - buying new, fresh rolls of my favorite films in bulk does not provide the price advantage any longer (I actually can buy TX400 135 film preloaded at lower cost than 100ft rolls of TX400 in bulk here in Shanghai).

How critical did you find shipping bulk film with international parcel - will the film be fogged when shipping from the US to CN - should I buy bulk film only over the counter to make sure it wasn't hit with too many x-ray's?

Where are you usually buying in bulk if buying fresh film and not hitting that garage sale jackpot of the full atrium load of expired film?
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Old 01-28-2016   #9
Tom A
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I have the Ablon, but rarely use it.I made my own from heavy brass with "pins" to register the film correctly. It is quicker to use than the ABLON. It also has a hole in it that can take a rubber band that is attached to the scissors - otherwise you keep fumbling for them in the dark.
I would advice that you use some waste film to check the "grip" in the spool. If, for some reason the friction pins have been removed - resort to tape. It is very rare that a correctly functioning centre spool looses grip - that film stays put! Some graphic arts film like tech pan, Orwo duplicating film and others are very thin and I do check that it is tight by pulling hard on the film once it is 'seated" in the spool. XX can shear if you get it twisted or not seated properly between the flanges.
As for cost of bulk versus single rolls. I still have a substantial stock of film in the freezer, but next time I restock I will go for Orwo UN 54 (100 iso) and Orwo 74 (400 iso) - even with the crappy Can$ in the 400 ft cans, it comes out to less than $3/roll.
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Old 01-28-2016   #10
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I have loaded IXMOO and FILCA cassettes successfully with a Watson 66 B loader. The counter works fine, and the knob opposite the film wind crank shuts the cassettes at the end. If you want to minimize exposed film at the end of the roll, then you'll have to practice loading the film into the IXMOO in the dark. I cut the triangular leader by hand with scissors about 6 sprocket holes long to ensure that it pokes a out little to make removal after processing easier, as Tom says above.
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Old 01-28-2016   #11
Ronald M
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My grey model is all grey with perhaps a slightly different color frame counter.

The big difference is the cassette loading door is hinged at the cassette end and opens like the back on non pro nikon slr cameras,

The grey is inherited and came without box or instructions.

Please notice Tom A repeated the importance of correct point.

Tom is a very clever machinist and he probably has a really nice idea on how to make the ABLON trimmer. He makes and sells copies of the baseplate winder for Leica M. So if you mail him I bet he will send you a photo of his rig.
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Old 01-28-2016   #12
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"Did your film ever slip out of the cassette in the camera when using the IXMOO as intended (did the clip not hold the film properly)?"
No, I've never had the film slip out of a Leica cassette and I've never had to use tape. It's a definitely one-way film grabber in the centre of the spool. Different story with Zeiss and Fed cassettes, which don't grab like tigers. I've had to unload in the darkroom with the Contax because of film not being able to rewind, but never the Leicas.
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Old 01-30-2016   #13
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Watson user here, mine is black No 100 model.
I am a tape fan, I find it such a fiddle to remove the tip from the spool after. Only once has the tape detached an that was because I had loaded, deliberately for test, a short length then forgot and wound on very deliberately.
I use a surgical tape, Micropore,Transpore or similar, leaves little adhesive residue.
The Watson does have a tendency to pop open without care but the trick is holding it firmly and winding steadily, it's not a race.

One tip: use a felt tip to mark the leader when loaded if only with the speed, caught me out when I dropped the habit. If you use multiple emulsions you end up with a tray of the dreaded "miscellaneous" loaded cassettes.
I load in daylight and don't mind the black ends, I find it gives an area to hold the length when hanging without fear of touching the last frame. Does it waste frames, it does, but I waste more with bracketing and with dreadful composition!!
Do remember as well there is not law about 36 frames, I often use short lengths if I think I may want to change film mid shoot so less waste and again if I want quick developing instead of "just going out to finish this roll". (Mind you I say that when I've just loaded )
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Old 01-30-2016   #14
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I think the main trick with the spool centre in the IXMOO/FILCA is to get the film through far enough so that some tongue sticks out. That makes it easy to pull forward after you've cut or torn the film off for developing. Shot of my 6 sprocket hole angled film tongue shoved deep into the spool:
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Old 01-30-2016   #15
ruby.monkey
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State of the art:

sommor1 by Jean-Yves, on Flickr

Sommor loader with bodged 400' 35mm film magazine. Easy to make, easy to use, minimal film wastage, and no need for a changing bag. Works with IXMOO, Shirley Wellard Universal, and normal reloadable cassettes.

The Sommor has a proper film magazine but that holds only about 30' of film.
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Old 01-30-2016   #16
ruby.monkey
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Quote:
One question regarding fixing the film to the spool inside the IXMOO cassettes.
You regular IXMOO users - do you cut the film lip with the ABLON template to use the IXMOO cassettes as intended or to you use masking tape to fix the film instead?

Did your film ever slip out of the cassette in the camera when using the IXMOO as intended (did the clip not hold the film properly)?
I cut mine with scissors to about the right shape. I haven't had one come loose yet, but I always insert the film as far as possible and then pull back hard to ensure it locks firmly into place.
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Old 01-30-2016   #17
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failing to have the teeth bite into the film will yield one of the most catastrophic incident in Leica-dom:
36 poses tightly rolled into a nearly inaccessible spool (the older removable spool helps here). Your camera is out of order for the day, and you are in for lots of scratches on the film. Happened to me twice and it's a small nightmare.
I still didn't find a good trick to cut the film right in the dark.
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Old 01-30-2016   #18
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I can feel the pain of that sanmich. I cut the triangle shape in the light, aiming to minimize how much film I expose when doing it, shove the leader into the assembled cassette, then do all the other steps in the dark. So I have lost maybe the last frame, usually not, to loading, but trying to make sure I haven't got into the situation you're describing - well, so far anyway...
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Old 01-30-2016   #19
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I do something very similar to the above post. Cut the triangle shape with scissors without any aid just by eyeballing it and stick the tip into the IXMOO and pulling on it a little to make sure it's firmly caught by the teeth.
I then put the loader into a dark bag and only there seat the IXMOO into its place so when I pull the film it won't be exposed to light. I save two frames per roll or 36 frames by a 100ft package. Basically 1 extra roll per 100ft.
I have the Watson 66B and with the above practice it works well!
I also listen very carefully when I close the IXMOO using the Watson's knob to hear it click before I remove it from the dark bag.

Ben
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Old 01-31-2016   #20
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Thanks again for the great advice guys - this is helping a newbie out a lot with learning how to use these cassettes!
It seems it is best to leave the ABLON out of the dark bag then and just use it after loading cassettes to do some nice looking leaders.

Regarding cutting leaders - do you feel it is really necessary to cut leaders at all?
My only cameras compatible with the IXMOO cassettes are the M2 and M3.
My M2 has the factory take up spool, which I guess would not care much about a cut leader.
My M3 has a Leitz quick load kit installed (do I have to cut a leader for this one?)

Not having to cut the leader would be nice - saving a little film and saving cutting the leader off when spooling the film into the reels for developing.
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Old 01-31-2016   #21
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Now there's a radical idea. I have always cut a standard short leader when loading bulk film from habit. My unmodified M2 loads happily without any sort of leader as you say. Never thought of doing that. I haven't got a quick-loader to test. Just make yourself a dummy roll with a short bit of film and try. It seems possible.
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Old 01-31-2016   #22
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I have always used the short bit of cut off leader to test the fix each time, so I know when that needs replacing.
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Old 01-31-2016   #23
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Thanks for that !! I need to try this, the only easy way to handle 400ft canisters I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby.monkey View Post
State of the art:

sommor1 by Jean-Yves, on Flickr

Sommor loader with bodged 400' 35mm film magazine. Easy to make, easy to use, minimal film wastage, and no need for a changing bag. Works with IXMOO, Shirley Wellard Universal, and normal reloadable cassettes.

The Sommor has a proper film magazine but that holds only about 30' of film.
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Old 02-01-2016   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
Regarding cutting leaders - do you feel it is really necessary to cut leaders at all?
No leaders for M2/Bessa/ Nikon rangefinders but yes for the Barnacks, Using the long leader of the ABLON adds to the pleasure of using those as they were meant to be.
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Old 02-04-2016   #25
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All my film is 400ft rolls so like Tom I don't use a loader just out-stretched arms method in the dark that is always about a 36exp!
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Old 02-06-2016   #26
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Guys, I have now everything lined up nicely - cleaned a handful of IXMOOs, checked out the ABLON and tried that tongue cutting and securing in the IXMOO, an Alden 74 bulk loader is in the mail on it's way to Shanghai, …

The only thing I am missing now is … film.
Bulk film from the sources here in China costs me the same as buying ready to use cassettes of the same stock.

Is it safe to ship 30ft rolls of TX400 or HP5+ (which I intend to push up to ISO1600 and develop in D-76) by international parcel or will the x-ray scanners ruin that film on it's way to me?
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Old 02-06-2016   #27
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I've ordered film (Delta 100) from the US to be delivered to Australia and been unable to detect any fog. I believe it would take a number of passes before any fog was seen. There was a thread on this topic in RFF some time ago for people taking films when traveling. I think you'll be fine with unexpired and unexposed film and only a couple of passes through scanners as you'd expect in US and Aus. I expect the scanners in China are similar as they probably make the scanner bits anyway...
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