Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Leica M8 / M8.2 / Ricoh GXR

Leica M8 / M8.2 / Ricoh GXR Smaller than full frame digital Leica M mount cameras. The Ricoh is included as a less expensive and viable digital Leica M lens platform.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Should I get a M8?
Old 02-18-2014   #1
mikeyyah
Registered User
 
mikeyyah is offline
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6
Should I get a M8?

I want to get into Leica digital but too poor to buy an M9.

Any thoughts on the M8. I did some research and read that the shutter might be prone to failure. I'd rent one but can't find anyone who does. Anyways, What are your thoughts? Would the M8 be a good purchase these days? I'd like for it to last a looong time.

M8 owners please chime in.

O btw, What do you guys think of this one:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/top...rd=m8#12145674
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #2
peterm1
Registered User
 
peterm1's Avatar
 
peterm1 is online now
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,427
If you cant afford an M9 then an M8 is a reasonable substitute. I have had one for perhaps 2-3 years. I dont mind it. But to be honest I am not totally in love with it due to the compromises inherent in its design. This is also partly due to the fact that my eyes have deteriorated in recent years combined with the fact that the finder on the M8 is not as good as on my old M3 and M4P (making focusing harder). Other people handle this better than me. I have purchased a diopter adjustment lens which helps but its still a bit of a struggle.

People other than I can tell you about how to check if the camera is prone to shutter failure. However I understand that later serial numbers are more reliable and also I have read reports in other Bulletin Boards, of people who have bought M8s second hand, had the shutter fail and then had Leica replace it at no cost to them. These are recent reports and the general consensus was that Leica sticks by its products for as long as it is able. How long it will keep this up for is questionable though as suitable parts are always an issue with older cameras quite apart from the cost to Leica.

Would I buy one again? Probably not. Certainly not for what I paid for mine - but since then they have falling in price so you should be able to get one for much less.

I never the less think that for me, given my blurry vision it is preferable for me to buy either a Fuji x100s or alternatively in order to use my lenses, some other camera of a sort that would allow me to use my Leica glass. I have used my glass on a Sony NEX for example and it works fine with focus peaking and focus assist which make using manual focusing much much easier. But this lacks a certain something if you really wish to use a traditional camera. Perhaps one of the Fuji pofferings with interchanegable lenses. I am not serious about it right now so have not studied options.

For now I will continue to use my M8 and will even enjoy it to a point. but there is no doubt I struggle with focussing properly and this limits the subjects I use it with. Would it be an issue for you? That's your call.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #3
mikeyyah
Registered User
 
mikeyyah is offline
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6
Thanks for the reply, Peter.

I see that the going price is around 1800-2200 on Ebay.

My eyesight is deteriorating as well, so I guess I should take this into consideration.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #4
Steve Bellayr
Registered User
 
Steve Bellayr's Avatar
 
Steve Bellayr is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,942
On Leica Rumors Joel Myerwitz made some comments on the new Leica cameras. I think you should review those videos. They might be helpful.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #5
mjc
Registered User
 
mjc is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 244
Isn't this the same M8 in the rangefinder adds here:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...-m8-body/cat/3

I owned an M8. Liked it but sold it. Many like the look from the sensor. As did I. But there was a lot of messing around with it too. You know about the IV cut filters that you need to put on? Also, the shutter sound is quite loud. Its not the shutter being depressed, but the re-cocking. Makes a kind of whirring sound. Again, not an issue with some. I'd be inclined to hold and use one for a bit before buying. The other thing is that these cameras are addictive and Leica lenses are v. expensive.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #6
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
 
SolaresLarrave's Avatar
 
SolaresLarrave is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: DeKalb, IL, USA
Age: 59
Posts: 7,475
I'd wait for a used M9. Leica will continue putting out new cameras, so, I'd sit and wait. The M8 came with a lot of baggage, not to mention that it has a cropped sensor. Given that I waited to get a digital until Nikon offered the D700, I became very much a fan of FF, so, again, I intend to wait for a used M9. You will find them used and in very good shape in a few years.
__________________
-Francisco
Check out
My Leica M4-2 Blog and/or
My Nikon D700 Neophyte's Guide
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #7
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 70
Posts: 4,622
Didn't Leica run out of LCD screens and sensors? No repair parts for these? I thought they were offering trade ins for the new 240 depending on the age of the failed camera. I personally wouldn't buy a recent camera I couldn't get repaired. I wouldn't put more than what I'm willing to lose if it fails c
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #8
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
 
filmtwit's Avatar
 
filmtwit is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,009
Save your money.
The M8 was and is a dud.

Why?
Crop factor.
Need for UV filter.
a sensor that's as old as Canon 20d.
Either you'll have to program your lenses into it, or you'll need to code them.
Which means more money.

Either keep saving your money, or find an alternative.
__________________
Instgram
https://www.instagram.com/filmtwit/

The Flickr Stream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/filmtwit/

The Blog (Boring Sidney, Boring)
http://jeffthomasallen.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #9
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,490
The sensors are the same for the M8 and the M9. One is larger.
I use both cameras side by side, but I have started to favor the M9 with a 35mm lens. Yes, the IR cut filter is a pain. I have only two such filters.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #10
Takkun
Ian M.
 
Takkun's Avatar
 
Takkun is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sunny South Seattle
Posts: 747
I was thinking about this, since I've seen a plethora show up around the 1600 mark lately. It's been on the brain for a while, but I suppose it would be prudent to wait--I decided that, since my primary use for digital is low-light flexibility (and I use wider glass) the M9 would suit me better. It's out of range for me now, but it's only going to go down.
The great thing about the newer digital cameras is that the may be technically obsolete, but they still will make great photos.
__________________
Ian M., Seattle
Current bag contents: Just a Fuji GX680iii. Nothing else will fit.

--
my infrequently updated blog
Finally on Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #11
jippiejee
Registered User
 
jippiejee's Avatar
 
jippiejee is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 711
I consider the M8 a great camera for base-iso shooting. I've been getting great color files from it under daylight circumstances. So for street and travel photography, I see no reason to back out of a good deal. Its buffering is a bit slow, and there's the 1.3 crop factor. But then, there's also a great budget 28mm elmarit asph to compensate for it.

If you can afford an M9, that'll give you an extra stop and the comfort of shooting full-frame. But if that's stretching your budget, you'll still be very happy with the M8 too as long as you're not chasing low-light scenes. Although those can still be quite ok in black and white. Leica still services the M8 too, it's just that they unfortunately ran out of lcd displays as replacement parts.

I find the M8 dng files to be very rich and the camera far from obsolete... M8:

__________________
flickr
flickriver
---
Leica M4-P/M8/M9
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #12
JianL
Registered User
 
JianL is offline
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 63
The M8 is full of compromises, and is one of the most unreliable cameras I've ever owned, but I still enjoy shooting with it and the images (when you nail focus and exposure) are stunning.

I wouldn't worry so much about the shutter failing because this appears to happen randomly, and there's no real way to check for it. Instead, look for hot pixels on the sensor and a misaligned rangefinder. These you can check and the price should be adjusted accordingly if you encounter them.

If you don't need to have the rangefinder experience, consider a Ricoh GXR M Mount. The images from this are probably as good, if not better, than the M8 with better high ISO performance and better reliability in a smaller and lighter package at a third of the cost of an M8.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #13
hepcat
Former PH, USN
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
hepcat is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eastern Iowa
Age: 64
Posts: 1,268
The M8 is a solid camera. The sensor renders beautifully. Here are few example images I've taken with mine. The OOC b&w .jpgs are nearly the equal of the Monochrom... amazingly so.

The reason for buying Leica, ANY Leica, is the coupled coincident rangefinder/brightline viewfinder. If you don't care how you frame your images there are any number of cameras that are less expensive and will do a nice job for you.

You also don't need to spend a large fortune to buy lenses... those from Voigtlander, for example, are excellent quality and can be had for a fraction the cost of Leica lenses. I really enjoy the Voigtlander 28 f/2, 35 f/1.2, and 75 f/1.8 as a traveling kit with the M8... which gives the classic 35mm 35-50-90 kit field of view with the M8 sensor.

The skills required for using a rangefinder camera are very different from those required for using a DSLR. You'll shoot entirely primes and that will cause you to have to move to frame, and pre-select which lens will work best. The thought process is very different. A coincident rangefinder is probably the easiest manual focusing method with the the images "popping" into focus in the square. They're the easiest to use with failing eyesight. I switched back to the rangefinder as I find it easier to use as I age.

The M8 requires the use of UV/IR cut filters on your lenses for color work. I also have an M9P and I've found that leaving the UV/IR cut filters on really gives incredible colors with the M9P. The filters are not inexpensive, but they're worth their weight in gold.

So, the M8 may no longer be infinitely repairable, but it's a solid camera and Leica still stands behind them. They'll continue to be out there making images for a very long time.
__________________
Leicas and lenses

Find me on the web...
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #14
Gary Sandhu
Registered User
 
Gary Sandhu's Avatar
 
Gary Sandhu is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 499
Yes, you should buy an M8. But not if you want a 135 equivalent FOV of wider than 35.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #15
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 78
Posts: 5,943
I have the M8.2 rather than the plain M8. I bought it over the M8 partly because its frameline set is sized for a 2 meter distance, while the M8's framelines are sized for the minimum distance of .7M; partly because the M8.2 has the rugged sapphire glass finder screen; and partly because it is supposed to have a better shutter.

I needed the M8.2 frameline size because it is more accurate at my usual shooting distances: usually six feet to infinity.

As to crop factor: to me, a factor of 1.5 like you get on, say, a Nikon D300 is too much. But with the M8/M8.2 factor of just 1.33, each lens is not so far away from normal. A 35mm makes a great 50, with the added bonus of being a tad wider at 47mm equivalent. The 28mm is especially nice. At a 37mm equivalent, it does the job of the 35mm and makes a good general purpose lens. The 24mm is like a "wide 35" at a 32mm equivalent. It often even fills in for a true 28mm. As I wear glasses, I can't see the camera's 24mm framelines, so I use an accessory finder. And a 21mm makes a perfect 28.

Those who are more critical than I say that the M8 is too noisy above ISO 640. I find that I am happy with my results up to 1250. Once in a while I get a good shot at 2500; but I would say 1250 is the tipping point (for me).

If you think an M8 will make you happy, and if your needs are like mine, I don't think you would be wrong to buy it.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #16
Lss
Registered User
 
Lss is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,799
I like using the M8 and would still buy one if the M9 remains too expensive. The significant advantage of the M9 is the full frame sensor, which just works better with the lens selection available both new and used.

The shutter is not particularly unreliable or prone to failure.
__________________
Lasse
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #17
ChrisLivsey
Registered User
 
ChrisLivsey's Avatar
 
ChrisLivsey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyah View Post
Would the M8 be a good purchase these days? I'd like for it to last a looong time.
Mine is 7 years old, now takes pictures every bit as well as it did from new.
LEDs have partially (largely) failed so I have no idea what they read. Just recently I changed SD cards to one I had used previously only in the camera, all my other digital is compact flash,that shows as SD card full ( a known error) formatting makes no difference either in camera or with Sandisk disc formatter, the original card still works fine formats and plays nicely, I'm off to waste money on a brand new card to see.
Mine was upgraded and re-guaranteed BTW.
Am I angry, no, disappointed in the quality? Yes. I know Leica can fix it but probably at half the cost of a Sony A7. I have had 7 years out of it and technology has moved on , as it does. My D2H, bought for 300 for sports work is flawless, yes 300.
My opinion?
They are now overpriced IMHO and can be expected to fail unexpectedly. You would need a solid 12 month guarantee and be prepared to write it off when out of that guarantee, most repairs would be out of all manner and reason.
Would I buy another Leica digital, sorry no. For the money, good as they are, I have no faith in their build quality, their longer term reliability, Leica's ability to repair (at a cost) with uncertain parts availability, just the uncertainty that every time it is critical that it will not perform as expected. Pulling batteries out to reset, batteries dropping from two bars to zero in two shots, no stop, enough. Are they the best option for Leica glass?, without a doubt especially the wides, for digital. I use all the glass on film very happily.
__________________
Fishing for shadows in a pool.
Louis Macneice

http://www.flickr.com/photos/red_eyes_man/
  Reply With Quote

love my M8
Old 02-18-2014   #18
jamin-b
Registered User
 
jamin-b is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 441
Thumbs up love my M8

I bought my M8 used in great condition about 2 and a half years ago and am still frequently bowled over by image quality, with modern Zeiss ZM, vintage Leica (the Summitar is a very special lens) and CV wide angles. yes there are all the color issues, but as a b/w camera it functions as a poor man's monochrom, since the lack of filter provides greater sharpness. I have never had any issues with it whatsoever. If I lost it I would not hesitate to replace it. Get it, pick up an extra battery or two and have some fun!
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #19
Lss
Registered User
 
Lss is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
They are now overpriced IMHO and can be expected to fail unexpectedly.
Anything can fail unexpectedly, and given enough time will. I have had several Canon cameras fail, including their pro 1-series. My M8 keeps on going.
__________________
Lasse
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #20
GoneSavage
not actually
 
GoneSavage is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton
Age: 30
Posts: 228
Ever consider getting an A7?
__________________
Mathew

------------------------------

http://nolocus.tumblr.com/

  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2014   #21
Fraser
Registered User
 
Fraser is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmtwit View Post
Save your money.
The M8 was and is a dud.

Why?
Crop factor.
Need for UV filter.
a sensor that's as old as Canon 20d.
Either you'll have to program your lenses into it, or you'll need to code them.
Which means more money.

Either keep saving your money, or find an alternative.
The M8 is not a dud plenty of people still using them and getting great results.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #22
Wburgess
Registered User
 
Wburgess is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyah View Post
I want to get into Leica digital but too poor to buy an M9.

Any thoughts on the M8. I did some research and read that the shutter might be prone to failure. I'd rent one but can't find anyone who does. Anyways, What are your thoughts? Would the M8 be a good purchase these days? I'd like for it to last a looong time.

M8 owners please chime in.

O btw, What do you guys think of this one:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/top...rd=m8#12145674
Really ask yourself, why do you want a Leica?

I was in the very same situation about a year ago, and in the end struggled to justify the purchase.

It may be that different things are important to you, in which case, go for it... You will always find someone to pay close to what you did if you wish to sell.

As for it lasting a looong time... I would be looking at a newer more reliable camera.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #23
hepcat
Former PH, USN
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
hepcat is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eastern Iowa
Age: 64
Posts: 1,268
There have been a couple of mentions of the M8 shutter vs. the M8.2 shutter and reliability issues. Leica has reported that the new shutter is no more or less reliable than the old shutter, it's just supposed to be a little quieter with a top speed of 1/4000 on the M8.2 shutter vs. 1/8000 on the M8. According to information on the web, the shutters are both custom-spec'd Copal metal vertical focal plane shutters. Similar shutters have been used in many, many cameras over the years.
__________________
Leicas and lenses

Find me on the web...
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #24
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 19,819
I've had the M8 shutter issue and the M8 coffee stain issue. They are not myths. Only buy a M8 if you are willing to lose all of your money at this point. If you are ok with it possibly becoming a paperweight after spending $1600, then it is still a useful camera.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #25
Mcary
Registered User
 
Mcary is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia USA
Age: 57
Posts: 1,770
Bought mine for about $1650 about a year ago and works great for what I use it for, which is mostly shooting during the day at ISO 160 and once in a while 320 or 640. As far as low light shooting goes for what I shoot using a tripod isn't an issue in fact I'm thinking of getting an 10 stop ND filter to stack with the 6 stop ND filter I already have so that I can get longer exposures.
UV filter: All the lens I have as well as the ones I have my eyes on all have small 39mm-46mm filter sizes so don't really find this as an issue for me.
__________________
M. Cary
Trying to see something new whither I'm visiting someplace new or a place that I've visited many a time before.


  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #26
Out to Lunch
Registered User
 
Out to Lunch's Avatar
 
Out to Lunch is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,117
If and when looking for the rangefinder experience, also have a look at a mint second-hand Epson r-d1s or it's successor, the r-d1x. Both are widely available in Japan.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #27
doolittle
Registered User
 
doolittle's Avatar
 
doolittle is offline
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ireland
Age: 47
Posts: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmtwit View Post
Save your money.
The M8 was and is a dud.

Why?
Crop factor.
Need for UV filter.
a sensor that's as old as Canon 20d.
Either you'll have to program your lenses into it, or you'll need to code them.
Which means more money.

Either keep saving your money, or find an alternative.
Never thought I would end up defending the M8, but here goes

It's certainly not a dud. It's definitely quirky though!

Crop factor - yes, 1.33. Does that matter? Maybe to the buyer. Is full frame worth a paying twice the price - once again maybe. Is it all in the mind - full frame is a crop factor compared to medium format too.

Need for UV filter - the camera does benefit from an IR filter for colour photography, no denying that. However for those interested in IR photography, the M8 is one of the best camera systems out there. Especially from a usage point of view, way easier than an IR converted dSLR. Is it a big deal? Once again depends on the buyer. If buying second hand usually can get seller to include them as part of the deal.

A sensor that's as old as Canon 20D - I'm not so sure about dates. I think the 30D would be more of its era. They are totally different sensors either way. Personally I think the files from the M8 at low iso are phenomenal. Way better than the Nikon D80 files I was shooting back in the day. Best thing for potential buyers is to check out flickr and other sites for M8 shots and make up their own mind.

Program lenses or code them - there is no menu option to program in lenses on the M8 (not sure about the 8.2, but think you need M9 onwards), so coding the lens mount is the only option. Personally I have never had any problems with my uncoded lenses, including my 21mm. Not sure if the crop factor makes it less of a problem. Maybe I don't look closely enough at the files, haven't noticed any problem on prints.

The Leica M8, it's not for everybody. Doesn't stop it being a great camera to produce great pictures for many photographers!
__________________
--

fixerofshadows.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #28
Lss
Registered User
 
Lss is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I've had the M8 shutter issue and the M8 coffee stain issue. They are not myths.
Failures are a reality like with any complex product. But there is not really such a thing as an M8 shutter issue.

The coffee stain issue is a real issue for one (?) batch of the LCD screens, although it is only cosmetic. It also is the reason for Leica running out of spare parts.
__________________
Lasse
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #29
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 19,819
My shutter got a tear in it... and there are photos of others people's M8s with the same issue on the internet. It is a real issue, but just not as prevalejnt as the coffee stain issue. I'm not sure why people get offended over facts.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #30
hepcat
Former PH, USN
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
hepcat is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eastern Iowa
Age: 64
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I've had the M8 shutter issue and the M8 coffee stain issue. They are not myths. Only buy a M8 if you are willing to lose all of your money at this point. If you are ok with it possibly becoming a paperweight after spending $1600, then it is still a useful camera.
I don't think that anyone is suggesting they're myths. Failures certainly happen, and have happened in the M8. The M9 hasn't been immune to failures either. My comment was merely that Leica has said that the newer M8.2 shutter isn't any more reliable than the original M8 shutter, it's just supposed to be more quiet. Which may itself be a myth as I can't hear much difference between my M8 and my M9P myself.

We hear about the failures here on RFF and LUF because folks come here looking for help. We don't know what the failure rate is in the Canikony world because folks either just send them for repair or pitch them because they understand that they're consumables. There's no comparison data available to allow us to compare MTBF rates among manufacturers and models. Leicas are consumables too... ALL of them. The film bodies are repairable because the mechanical parts are more easily obtained or even machined, but they still fail.
__________________
Leicas and lenses

Find me on the web...
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #31
Lss
Registered User
 
Lss is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
My shutter got a tear in it... and there are photos of others people's M8s with the same issue on the internet.
This is the first time I even hear about this tear issue (let's call it that for now) and I have been an M8 user for some years. I will look this up, when I have the time.

It is clear that there have been several shutter failures of various sorts. I'm sure there have been on any camera with a mechanical shutter. It's the nature of the beast.

Quote:
I'm not sure why people get offended over facts.
No one's getting offended. Just clearing out said facts.
__________________
Lasse
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #32
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 19,819
Ok, Lss, you win.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #33
Lss
Registered User
 
Lss is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,799
A new shutter?
__________________
Lasse
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #34
ChrisLivsey
Registered User
 
ChrisLivsey's Avatar
 
ChrisLivsey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lss View Post
Anything can fail unexpectedly, and given enough time will. I have had several Canon cameras fail, including their pro 1-series. My M8 keeps on going.
Indeed, but the OP said : I'd like for it to last a looong time. IMHO that will not be the case with a seven year old Leica M8. That of course depends on your definition of a long time and your definition of failure. As I said I have a failure now of LEDs and a new problem of "SD card full". I can still take pictures, is that a failure?
Even Leica will not know the failure rate as owners just don't send thenm in for repair, writing then off as they assume, probably correctly, that the cost of the repair will out of proportion. Many will love them enough, and make no mistake I rate the images very highly particularly the monochrome, to have them repaired. My advice to the "poor" by his definition OP stands: They are now overpriced IMHO and can be expected to fail unexpectedly. You would need a solid 12 month guarantee and be prepared to write it off when out of that guarantee, most repairs would be out of all manner and reason. I am happy to remove "unexpectedly" if that helps but replace it with " you can expect it to fail at some point in the future which may be sooner or later"
__________________
Fishing for shadows in a pool.
Louis Macneice

http://www.flickr.com/photos/red_eyes_man/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #35
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
 
filmtwit's Avatar
 
filmtwit is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,009
Says you.
I've owned the camera in question.
It was a fifty camera when it came out nearly a 8 years ago.
Much like the Canon 30d.
I'm sure that people are getting great results with 30d's today too.

That having been said, when I compare the M8 (price wise) to another camera in the same price range, it is a dud. My 6D and my 3 year old Fuji X100 both blows it out the water across the board.

So it's pretty safe to say that today, the M8 is a dud so my advice is don't be a pushover on this.
The up and up on this is to save up for something newer, or find good alternative (for less) in my book.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
The M8 is not a dud plenty of people still using them and getting great results.
__________________
Instgram
https://www.instagram.com/filmtwit/

The Flickr Stream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/filmtwit/

The Blog (Boring Sidney, Boring)
http://jeffthomasallen.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #36
hepcat
Former PH, USN
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
hepcat is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eastern Iowa
Age: 64
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
My advice to the "poor" by his definition OP stands: They are now overpriced IMHO and can be expected to fail unexpectedly. You would need a solid 12 month guarantee and be prepared to write it off when out of that guarantee, most repairs would be out of all manner and reason. I am happy to remove "unexpectedly" if that helps but replace it with " you can expect it to fail at some point in the future which may be sooner or later"
Chris, all cameras fail eventually, and they only fail when you go to use them... they never fail sitting in the closet unused. "Long time" depends on how the camera is used and how much use and abuse it's subjected to. Your advice is sound, but it applies to buying any used camera. Absent a repeatable defect in any particular component, anecdotal evidence of failures doesn't have any direct connection to whether or not MY camera will fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by filmtwit View Post
Says you.
I've owned the camera in question.
It was a fifty camera when it came out nearly a 8 years ago.
Much like the Canon 30d.
I'm sure that people are getting great results with 30d's today too.

That having been said, when I compare the M8 (price wise) to another camera in the same price range, it is a dud. My 6D and my 3 year old Fuji X100 both blows it out the water across the board.

So it's pretty safe to say that today, the M8 is a dud so my advice is don't be a pushover on this.
The up and up on this is to save up for something newer, or find good alternative (for less) in my book.
I don't know what a "fifty" camera is.

I am probably beginning to sound like a broken record, but you can compare DSLRs of all brands and models all day long, but there is nothing that compares to the Leica M series. There ARE no other coupled coincident rangefinder/bright line viewfinder digital cameras still in production. THAT is the feature that makes Leica worth buying. If you don't care what mechanism you use for framing, then there are literally dozens of models out there that will do the job for you. If like me however, the rangefinder is your thing, then there is nothing else out there to compare the Leica digital cameras to.

I think that folks trying to compare rangefinder cameras to DSLRs causes a lot of confusion, frustration, and misunderstanding.
__________________
Leicas and lenses

Find me on the web...
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #37
Meakin
Registered User
 
Meakin's Avatar
 
Meakin is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
........
I am probably beginning to sound like a broken record, but you can compare DSLRs of all brands and models all day long, but there is nothing that compares to the Leica M series. There ARE no other coupled coincident rangefinder/bright line viewfinder digital cameras still in production. THAT is the feature that makes Leica worth buying. If you don't care what mechanism you use for framing, then there are literally dozens of models out there that will do the job for you. If like me however, the rangefinder is your thing, then there is nothing else out there to compare the cameras to.

I think that folks trying to compare rangefinder cameras to DSLRs causes a lot of confusion, frustration, and misunderstanding.

....and this is the exact reason I'm waiting for an m8 to arrive with the postman any day now.

I spend my work week, every week, lugging around a dslr for a living - every time I lift it too my eye i feel like I'm looking into a tunnel..only vaguely seeing whats happening at the other end (never mind whats happening just outside the frame). So as a personal/always on me camera - for me it's the m8. M9 and upwards I just can't/will not afford...and there aint much else in the price range thats does the above and lets you change lenses.

/Meakin
__________________

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- A. Einstein
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #38
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
 
filmtwit's Avatar
 
filmtwit is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,009
Applesauce.
You can easily compare M8 to a modern DSLR and to X100 (not a DSLR).
It's easy, try use all of the above and report back.
You'll get plus's and minus's for each.
But you'll end up with far more plus's for the X100 and modern DSLR then you will for an 8 year M8.
Plus, most of the above will cost less then M8 will.

I would also use an M2, M3, M4, M5, M6, M7 and MP over an M8.
Actually I already do.
All these film Leica's film camera's are far more usable then an M8.

The M8 is today a dud, and in the future, it will always be a dud.
It is akin to a bronx cheer.
__________________
Instgram
https://www.instagram.com/filmtwit/

The Flickr Stream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/filmtwit/

The Blog (Boring Sidney, Boring)
http://jeffthomasallen.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #39
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,490
Photography is not about the latest model camera.
The Leica lenses match the M8 perfectly, and I love having the M8 for short tele photos. If you like to use the classical 50mm focal length, then using a 35mm lens with the M8 gives you this look. The RF experience is of course the main reason for using Leica anyways.
__________________
- Raid

________________
Top 12 Images;

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg...n.php?cid=7007

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-19-2014   #40
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 56
Posts: 3,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
I think that folks trying to compare rangefinder cameras to DSLRs causes a lot of confusion, frustration, and misunderstanding.
As an avid fan of the RF/VF, I truly appreciate the uniqueness of it, and what it means to the production of images. Nevertheless, people can and will compare, precisely because when you look at the final image, nobody knows, and nobody cares.
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 17:25.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.