M10 Price Prediction?
Old 08-03-2012   #1
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M10 Price Prediction?

I'm going to guess $9000. The MM at $8K has prepared the way.

What do you reckon?
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Old 08-03-2012   #2
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I'll play it safe at a rounded price of $10,000 USD. Probably £8,000 and €9,000.
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Old 08-03-2012   #3
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I'm going to guess about the price of Hyundai.
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Old 08-03-2012   #4
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Originally Posted by anjoca76 View Post
I'm going to guess about the price of Hyundai.
... but then the bag for the Hyundai is more expensive
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Old 08-03-2012   #5
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M10 for $10k. It's catchy, and what's an extra grand or two, really?
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Old 08-03-2012   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjoca76 View Post
I'm going to guess about the price of Hyundai.
The price of a Hyundai or the price of the whole company?
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Old 08-03-2012   #7
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I truly love my Leica cameras--film, I have no digital M's--but I am beginning to think their business model is much like the salesman who sells million dollar pencils: he only needs to sell one! Their camera prices are simply out of reach for most people. $10K is a lot of money--at least for me it is. That's like 50 rolls of Provia 400X!
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Old 08-03-2012   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjoca76 View Post
...... $10K is a lot of money--at least for me it is. That's like 50 rolls of Provia 400X!
$10K = 50 rolls of Provia 400X?
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Old 08-03-2012   #9
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closer to 40 rolls if you include developing
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Old 08-03-2012   #10
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Please see classifieds, for sale, 1 roll Provia 400X, $195. Buyer won't be disappointed.

I can't believe they could possibly charge $10k for an M10 without offering some other option below that, maybe an M9.2 with a slightly updated M9 sensor and better LCD etc?

Still...Leica logic isn't really compatible with any other camera manufacturer logic.
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Old 08-03-2012   #11
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At least €6000,- more likely something about €7000,-
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Old 08-03-2012   #12
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It would be nice if it were right there with the M9P, same price...? Could be justified as lower than the M9M as the latter is more of a specialty item...? One can dream... At least used M9 prices will go down.
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Old 08-03-2012   #13
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I rekon Leica will price themselves out of the market if its more than an M9. The output from other cameras such as Fuji etc is so good now that people will be questioning the value for money. But Leica being Leica I expect it to be more expensive so I'll take an each way bet on $8000, $9000 and $10000.
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Old 08-03-2012   #14
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$10k maybe even more if they can justify it to their audience. After all they seem to have done quite well explaining why a 50mm f/2 should be worth $7200 to the discriminating photographer.
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Old 08-03-2012   #15
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Who cares?

Either I will see a clear advantage over the M9, or I will not.

If I do see a clear advantage, either I will find the money or I will not.

On top of all this, the only meaningful price is in euros. Suppose it's 6000€. Then at 1€ = $1.20, it's $7200, and at 1€ = $1.50 it's $9000. For sterling, you can guess that 1 GBP = 1.10 to 1.30, for a price of GBP 4600 to 5450. Make your own adjustments for 7000€, etc.

Assuming the euro is still important in September.

But at Arles, Stefan Daniel did tell me that there would be significant introductions...

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Old 08-03-2012   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Who cares?

Either I will see a clear advantage over the M9, or I will not.

If I do see a clear advantage, either I will find the money or I will not.
Well Roger, after having used my M9 2 years now, I have to say you were right that I now feel there's a significant improvement over the M8. It's nice to have rid of those embarrassing IR filters, and it's also nice to have full-frame back. But to be honest, I still count the improvements in IQ as minor. To call them "significant" is an exercise in semantics.

But whereas I was willing to admit that the IR filters and crop factor of the M8 were things I didn't like but was content to live with if necessary. I have no such issues with the M9, so I'm completely content to bide my time a couple years until used M10's are out there for thousands less.

I fear my chances of finding the money for a new M10 are significantly lower than yours, as my wife is obsessive about vacuuming under the couch cushions
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Old 08-03-2012   #17
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Titanium? $21,294.99, with a waiting list.

Just a guess.
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Old 08-03-2012   #18
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they would have to compare the noise performance to the monochrom in b&w or else there would be an m10 with monochrom and so forth
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Old 08-04-2012   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denizg7 View Post
they would have to compare the noise performance to the monochrom in b&w or else there would be an m10 with monochrom and so forth
I´m curious here:

What do you expect to be the result? M10 or M9M better, regarding noise in B/W ?
Are there other IQ factors that should be compared?
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Old 08-04-2012   #20
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Well Roger, after having used my M9 2 years now, I have to say you were right that I now feel there's a significant improvement over the M8. It's nice to have rid of those embarrassing IR filters, and it's also nice to have full-frame back. But to be honest, I still count the improvements in IQ as minor. To call them "significant" is an exercise in semantics.

But whereas I was willing to admit that the IR filters and crop factor of the M8 were things I didn't like but was content to live with if necessary. I have no such issues with the M9, so I'm completely content to bide my time a couple years until used M10's are out there for thousands less.

I fear my chances of finding the money for a new M10 are significantly lower than yours, as my wife is obsessive about vacuuming under the couch cushions
Dear Ben,

Highlight 1: Same here. Sure, I'd like higher ISO/better high ISO performance but it's a LONG way from decisive.

Highlight 2: I also have the advantage I can set it against tax, but it's still a lot of money to find. Fortunately, my ALCS royalty paid for the M9. But that was the highest ALCS payment I've ever had.

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Old 08-04-2012   #21
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If the M10 has a CMOS sensor, it will very possibly beat the MM by a good margin on high ISO, but it might not have the effective resolution. After all, the 5d III is 22 mp and the Eos 1DX 18.

Considering the short timeframe between the MM's availability and the M10 announcement, they would surely have to be able to see a viable market for the MM even after the M10 is known to us all (or the MM would have a lifespan of about 2 months). I presume this means more resolving power and, potentially, more gradual tonal transitions in B&W for the MM. I would also expect it to remain quite a bit cheaper.

The M 8.2 remained on the market for a while after the M9 was released, so perhaps the same with the M10 and M9 would mean a noticeably higher price for the M10.
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Old 08-04-2012   #22
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It's nice to have rid of those embarrassing IR filters, and it's also nice to have full-frame back.
I guess you mean embarrassing for Leica. As a user I don't see anything embarrassing about using filters. For the sake of convenience I would prefer going without filters, but the real advantage of going M9/M10 for me would be full frame. M10 of course may have other interesting features, M9 not so much.

Price prediction? Too much for me to really care, but I hope it's not much above M9-P to allow as many as possible to buy it (or impatiently wait for availability).
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Old 08-04-2012   #23
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I guess you mean embarrassing for Leica. As a user I don't see anything embarrassing about using filters.
Funny how nobody seems to complain about the potentially common use of filters with the MM (Leica even initially recommended light yellow), while the M8 still gets bashed. I guess if Leica had planned for M8 filters rather than awkwardly stumbling into the need for them, these would be viewed as an advantage.

The M8 filters still are more effective in some circumstances than the internal M9 filter. And many (including me) feel the M8 delivers better b/w files out of the camera than the M9, likely in part due to filtration differences.

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Old 08-04-2012   #24
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Old 08-04-2012   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobuttons View Post
I´m curious here:

What do you expect to be the result? M10 or M9M better, regarding noise in B/W ?
Are there other IQ factors that should be compared?
Well I don't expect Leica to surpass my expectations since they don't make their own sensors. So i think a lot of black and white photographers will want to see an M10M and so forth.

Me Honestly? Film B&W is better , consider not the noise but B&W film has an inky feel that digital without editing will not have.
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Old 08-04-2012   #26
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Originally Posted by denizg7 View Post
consider not the noise but B&W film has an inky feel that digital without editing will not have.
I don't wish to engage in the tired film versus digital debates, but only wish to point out that both film and digital typically require "editing," be it in a darkroom or on a computer, or use of different papers, etc.

Still, one might prefer one to the other.

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Old 08-04-2012   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff S

Funny how nobody seems to complain about the potentially common use of filters with the MM
Speaking just on my own behalf, no complaints because I have absolutely no interest in the MM whatsoever. A huge advatage to me as a once-in-a-while b/w shooter is the ability with the M9 to obviate carrying filters by using color channels in CS.
Quote:
I guess if Leica had planned for M8 filters rather than awkwardly stumbling into the need for them, these would be viewed as an advantage.
They would still be a disadvantage from economic, flare, and mandatory-use standpoint. But at least Leica wouldn't have come off looking like a bunch of incompetent nincompoops.

Quote:
The M8 filters still are more effective in some circumstances than the internal M9 filter.
Quite true, and I still keep a Heliopan IR-cut filter in my bag for such curcumstances. But I have need to use it very very very occasionally, unlike the M8 which (as a mostly color photographer) was practically useless without the filter.
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Old 08-04-2012   #28
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depends on what the m10 offers over the M9 but expect $10,999.00 US.
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Old 08-05-2012   #29
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$10,000 for sure.
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Old 08-05-2012   #30
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For most it is who cares they will never buy a new Leica at today's prices me included. As Roger points out that may also turn out to be true for a segment of current owners of digital Leicas.

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Old 08-05-2012   #31
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with digital m, there is always time delay for average non professional shooter, so I don't want to rule out never never, but certainly used digital m will be on the market at much lower price. so yes, I am interested in monochrome and m10 while keeping current gears useful.
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Old 08-08-2012   #32
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Old 08-10-2012   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjoca76 View Post
I truly love my Leica cameras--film, I have no digital M's--but I am beginning to think their business model is much like the salesman who sells million dollar pencils: he only needs to sell one! Their camera prices are simply out of reach for most people. $10K is a lot of money--at least for me it is.
I agree with you.

But we don't know, yet, the real price of the M10. It is a key variable, regardless of the M10's specifications.
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Old 08-10-2012   #34
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$10k maybe even more if they can justify it to their audience. After all they seem to have done quite well explaining why a 50mm f/2 should be worth $7200 to the discriminating photographer.
... only for real discriminating photographers...

In fact, we all are discriminating photographers. The real condition is a rich photographer.
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Old 08-10-2012   #35
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I wonder how much the "Maria Sharapova" version be offered for.. More than €20K???
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Old 08-10-2012   #36
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Whatever it is, I'm not buying one. I have a college fund for my son to prepare for and I have 15 years to save. With todays economy, I wish I had 30 more years.

The M9 was the topmost I would pay for any Leica.
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Old 08-10-2012   #37
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I rekon Leica will price themselves out of the market if its more than an M9. The output from other cameras such as Fuji etc is so good now that people will be questioning the value for money. But Leica being Leica I expect it to be more expensive so I'll take an each way bet on $8000, $9000 and $10000.

I seriously doubt that it's possible for Leica to price themselves out of the market.

Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes and so on have tried for years and the well heeled just keep on buying them!
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Old 08-10-2012   #38
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I seriously doubt that it's possible for Leica to price themselves out of the market.

Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes and so on have tried for years and the well heeled just keep on buying them!
Porsche and Mercedes have models that are priced at the "wow that's expensive but not crazy expensive for me if I really want one" range for some people. I feel like Leica digital M models are destined to be like Lamborghinis... just a few very insanely expensive models.
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Old 08-10-2012   #39
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Porsche and Mercedes have models that are priced at the "wow that's expensive but not crazy expensive for me if I really want one" range for some people. I feel like Leica digital M models are destined to be like Lamborghinis... just a few very insanely expensive models.
In all fairness, Leica also has lower priced cameras.
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Old 08-10-2012   #40
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Is an M9 'insanely expensive'? It's certainly a lot more affordable than a Porsche.

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