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Southern Germany, the Alps, and Lakes in Northern Italy
Old 07-22-2011   #1
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Southern Germany, the Alps, and Lakes in Northern Italy

I will take my family on a 12 day trip to Europe in August.
At first, there will be a 4 days stay in Ulm and surroundings, followed by a drive to Lake Como, close to the Italy-Switzerland border. Then it is off to Lake Garda, followed by Venice for two short stays there. Then, we will drive in the Alps on the Grossglockner Alpine Road to Salzburg, Austria. Then, it is to Munich.

I better keep things light and manageable, but I need very sharp lenses for lots of scenics.

I have been debating what to take along. Logic tells me to leave MF behind.
My choices have settled on these set-ups:

Leica M6 + 35/1.4 and 75/1.4
Bessa L + Canon 19mm/3.5 or CV 25/4

The set is complete.

Another option would be using two Contax G1 bodies with 28-45-90 lenses.

I will somehow make the choice. If it were you,what would you do?
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Old 07-22-2011   #2
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I would rent a big Mercedes Diesel, Raid (GL or similar - from SiXT ). You'll be in the car a lot and Diesel is cheaper, paying a bit more on the car and less on mileage will pay off .... Have fun !
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Old 07-22-2011   #3
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I would rent a big Mercedes Diesel, Raid (GL or similar - from SiXT ). You'll be in the car a lot and Diesel is cheaper, paying a bit more on the car and less on mileage will pay off .... Have fun !
Hi Roland,
The streets in Italy and Austria can be narrow, with an advantage for driving a smaller car. My wife prefers to take along very little luggage, and since the weather is warm, without a need for thick clothes, I opted for a small car. It is paid for, and the voucher arrived to me. A change would be very difficult now. I will try to get a Diesel car. I once reserved a Golf (gas), but when I arrived in Germany, I asked the rental agency for a Diesel,and they agreed to do so without any change in rental fees. I also prefer a Diesel.

My initial reservation was with SIXT, by the way.
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Old 07-23-2011   #4
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Wow Raid, that is some trip you've planned. It reminds me of those japanese tourists groups. Quickly from one place to another, to snap some pics and be on there way.
You'll need a vacation after this vacation

As for what gear to bring with you. I would keep it to a minimum. One body witha couple of lenses, and a digital compact. Or two bodies with some lenses. The G1 option looks like a very good one. You could take one set of lenses with two bodies.

I hope you'll have a great time in Europe.
Btw. The Grossglockner is a great place to spent the day. Great views, especially with clear weather. Take your time for it, because there are allways a lot of tourists and bike riders on that road.

Cheers,
Hans
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Old 07-23-2011   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
I will take my family on a 12 day trip to Europe in August.
At first, there will be a 4 days stay in Ulm and surroundings, followed by a drive to Lake Como, close to the Italy-Switzerland border. Then it is off to Lake Garda, followed by Venice for two short stays there. Then, we will drive in the Alps on the Grossglockner Alpine Road to Salzburg, Austria. Then, it is to Munich.

I better keep things light and manageable, but I need very sharp lenses for lots of scenics.

I have been debating what to take along. Logic tells me to leave MF behind.
My choices have settled on these set-ups:

Leica M6 + 35/1.4 and 75/1.4
Bessa L + Canon 19mm/3.5 or CV 25/4

The set is complete.

Another option would be using two Contax G1 bodies with 28-45-90 lenses.

I will somehow make the choice. If it were you,what would you do?
Raid,

so if you decide to stay in Zurich for a day, let me know. Also if you need "local assistance"

Cheers and take care

Ivo

Edit: For Venice, you may want a wide angle. And agreed on choice for a smaller car. They can be comfortable, too.
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Old 07-23-2011   #6
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Wow Raid, that is some trip you've planned. It reminds me of those japanese tourists groups. Quickly from one place to another, to snap some pics and be on there way.
You'll need a vacation after this vacation

As for what gear to bring with you. I would keep it to a minimum. One body witha couple of lenses, and a digital compact. Or two bodies with some lenses. The G1 option looks like a very good one. You could take one set of lenses with two bodies.

I hope you'll have a great time in Europe.
Btw. The Grossglockner is a great place to spent the day. Great views, especially with clear weather. Take your time for it, because there are allways a lot of tourists and bike riders on that road.

Cheers,
Hans
Hello Hans,
It is not as bad as it sounds. The distances between Lake Como and Lake Garda and Venice are less than 2 hours of driving, and I am staying three nights at Lake Como, and one nights at Lake Garda and at Venice.
The drives are amazingly beautiful,and it is not like driving on a boring interstate highway. The weather forecast gives clear weather for Lake Como.

I am also now thinking of a combo of one digital camera for snapshots of people (family and friends) in addition to the M6+35mm Summilux. maybe the EP-2plus the CV 25/4. Switching the CV to the M6 would make it a wide angle lens. Switching the Lux to the EP-2 makes it a short Tele, similar to a 70/1.4.
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Old 07-23-2011   #7
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Raid,

so if you decide to stay in Zurich for a day, let me know. Also if you need "local assistance"

Cheers and take care

Ivo

Edit: For Venice, you may want a wide angle.
Hello Ivo,
Thanks for the assistance offer. We will be close to Lugano, and we may take one day as a side trip inside Switzerland.
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Old 07-23-2011   #8
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Hi,

nice trip

I'm from Salzbourg, but at the moment in Nicaragua...

The selection of equipment is always hard...

Doing landscape, cityscapes and architecture I would prefer MF. Especially if you rent a car (on the co drivers womb is always space...)

In the case of your proposals, I would prefer the M6 and the Bessa.
And take film with you. In Austria its really hard or impossible to get film in a store.

safe journey and a nice stay in europe!

sincere regards
chris

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Old 07-23-2011   #9
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Hey, that combo of the Summilux and the Skopar is really nice.

And to give you a taste, of what the Grossglockner looks like


Panorama Grossglockner 02 by HoodedOne, on Flickr

This pano was taken last year when I was on vacation with my parents (because of their wedding anniversary). For my parents (who visit Austria each year) the Grossglockner is the one thing they visit each year.
The huge white mountain in the back is the "Johannisberg" and the Grossglockner is the mountain just right from the middle of the image. In the front you see the giant glacier, and all the way on the left you can see the starting point of the glacier train. It will bring you down to the glacier, so you can walk over it.
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Old 07-23-2011   #10
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Hi,

nice trip

I'm from Salzbourg, but at the moment in Nicaragua...

The selection of equipment is always hard...

Doing landscape, cityscapes and architecture I would prefer MF. Especially if you rent a car (on the co drivers womb is always space...)

In the case of your proposals, I would prefer the M6 and the Bessa.
And take film with you. In Austria its really hard or impossible to get film in a store.

safe journey and a nice stay in europe!

sincere regards
chris

Hello Chris,
I am also favoring manual control and reliability with the M6. I will take all I need of film with me. I will load Portra 160NC and 400NC film into film cassettes.

Thanks.
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Old 07-23-2011   #11
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Hey, that combo of the Summilux and the Skopar is really nice.

And to give you a taste, of what the Grossglockner looks like


Panorama Grossglockner 02 by HoodedOne, on Flickr

This pano was taken last year when I was on vacation with my parents (because of their wedding anniversary). For my parents (who visit Austria each year) the Grossglockner is the one thing they visit each year.
The huge white mountain in the back is the "Johannisberg" and the Grossglockner is the mountain just right from the middle of the image. In the front you see the giant glacier, and all the way on the left you can see the starting point of the glacier train. It will bring you down to the glacier, so you can walk over it.
This is a beautiful image, Hans. I share your parent's preference to visit Grossglockner. It will be my third visit to it. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 07-23-2011   #12
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Raid - The wife, step-daughter and I will be in Salzurg on Aug 18 and 19th. When are you passing through? I'm also considering what to bring. Your setup seems to be darn near perfect! Am thinking about, Bessa R4A with Zeiss 25mm and M7 with 35mm 3.5 (Perar II) and 50mm Summilux. Also thinking Portra 160 and 400. And maybe Acros 100.

What does everyone think about taking 25mm and 35mm, too close or just right?
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Old 07-23-2011   #13
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Raid - The wife, step-daughter and I will be in Salzurg on Aug 18 and 19th. When are you passing through? I'm also considering what to bring. Your setup seems to be darn near perfect! Am thinking about, Bessa R4A with Zeiss 25mm and M7 with 35mm 3.5 (Perar II) and 50mm Summilux. Also thinking Portra 160 and 400. And maybe Acros 100.

What does everyone think about taking 25mm and 35mm, too close or just right?
These two focal lengths are not too close to each other.
We will be in Salzburg Aug 18/19.
Send me a pm.
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Old 07-23-2011   #14
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That is probably my favorite region. I spent my summers there (and north in Germany). Unbelievable landscape, incredibly beautiful towns and lakes, awesome food... I've been really itching to return as I haven't been in a while.

Take whatever you're comfortable with shooting. You just can't take a bad photo there. Trust me. But consider a wide, a 35/50 and something a little longer. There are a LOT of details on the buildings (paintings and flowers, etc.) and in landscapes.

The Summilux duo plus the CV 25/4 may be what is a good set for such a trip. Add either a Bessa T or Olympus EP2.
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Old 07-23-2011   #15
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My travel kit: 2 M Bodies, 1 Rolleiflex.

Medium format is made for this type of trip especially. Light, easy to carry, etc.
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Old 07-23-2011   #16
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I could do this too. How about a tripod?
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Old 07-23-2011   #17
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I could do this too. How about a tripod?
Nah, keep it simple
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Old 07-23-2011   #18
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Raid, I don't know about gear-I only take an M4 and a p&s digital and just a 35 summicron. I would suggest definitely going to Como and hop on ferries but I personally might not go to Garda. Only thing is Garda may be less busy than Como in August. Lake Como is drop dead beautiful.

Bon voyage.
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Old 07-24-2011   #19
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Raid, I don't know about gear-I only take an M4 and a p&s digital and just a 35 summicron. I would suggest definitely going to Como and hop on ferries but I personally might not go to Garda. Only thing is Garda may be less busy than Como in August. Lake Como is drop dead beautiful.

Bon voyage.
We first included Lake Garda, then deleted it from the itinerary, but then settled for a one day stay there. Some of the photos of Lake Garda look very beautiful. We have a car with us, so if things get boring anywhere, we will drive around the region anyways. It may be smart to keep the equipment to a minimum.
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Old 07-24-2011   #20
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Nah. Won't need it.

Though oddly, perhaps a UV filter or two. This might be the one time they actually do something if you're shooting up in the mountains.
I have never used [deliberately] filters with RF cameras, but I may have most lenses protected by some filters anyways.
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Old 07-24-2011   #21
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Going to the European Alps region ? I would bring my Rolleiflex and maybe one Leica with a 35mm lens and be done. A Leitz table tripod (that is also stable enough to support the Rolleiflex), some filter and a cable-release would be in my bag, too! Enjoy your trip, the last time I have visited there was with my grandparents about 40 years ago, we went there by a VW 1500 ...
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Old 07-24-2011   #22
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Sounds like a great trip raid - enjoy!

On my recent trip to the French Alps I took loads of gear, but then I had the space in the car and stayed only in one hotel. I found that the GF1 with M adapter was nice to have, but only worth bringing because the GF1 was also used for family snaps with its 40mm. I found I used my 15mm and 28mm a lot on my M6. My Rolleiflex also got 2 days of use including some IR. Finally, I keep a Rollei 35S in my pocket when I'm on my bike, but that's a separate special purpose camera for me.

If I had to or wanted to travel light it would be M6, 15mm or 28mm, 50mm, and GF1 with 40mm and adapter. The little Rollei would join if I brought my bike, or if I was travelling by bike it would be the only one.

Cheers,
Rob
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Old 07-24-2011   #23
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I don;t know how high do you want to go Raid, but
https://picasaweb.google.com/zoltanf...accioAntermoia
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Old 07-24-2011   #24
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I am hesitating about bringing along a MF camera even though it is such a joy using a camera with a large viewing area. I am also hesitating about using a digital camera because I will be traveling with my family, and bringing along a digital camera would imply leaving behind a film camera due to limited car space.

The M6 with 35/1.4 is a sure choice for which I have no doubts. The CV 25/4 is a sure choice because it is wide, is sharp and is tiny.

Everything else is not really decided on yet.
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Old 07-24-2011   #25
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I don;t know how high do you want to go Raid, but
https://picasaweb.google.com/zoltanf...accioAntermoia
I have been "up" the Dolomites in the past, but this trip will be a casual family oriented car driven trip. Thanks for the link.
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Old 07-24-2011   #26
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With the M6, 35/1.4 and 25/4 you definitely have the essentials. If you take anything else then the choice depends whether it is more important to have a back-up film body, or want MF, or want digital. Also if you want to shoot colour film and B&W film or different speeds at the same time then all signs point to your second film body.

Cheers,
Rob
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Old 07-24-2011   #27
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Hi Rob,
A slightly larger trunk in the rental car would solve this issue!
I may place the 35/1.4 on the M6, place the CV 25/4 on a Bessa T (the back-up), and use the EP-2 as my tele lens, so to speak. The 35/1.4 will be a 70/1.4 when needed, and the 25/4 would be a digital 50/4. That would save on weight for carrying the 75/1.4 lux.
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Old 07-24-2011   #28
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Hi raid,

Sounds like a plan. I suggest adding an AF lens on the e-p2, kit zoom or preferably pancake, and let your wife and daughters use it as a point and shoot the rest of the time. We didn't coordinate with my wife on packing for our trip and ended up with two digitals for no reason. Like I said earlier, we had the space so no worries.

Cheers,
Rob
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Old 07-24-2011   #29
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Travel in central Europe does not require special gear. Take what suits best to your photographic style and enjoy your time! Nice trip that you're planning.

Don't underestimate distances - lot's of potential for traffic jams especially in July/August on all streets crossing the alps (both Austria/Italy and Switzerland/Italy) - many friends from Northern Europe go south these days. If you have spare time, take one of the pass roads instead of the highway tunnels or bridges. One hour more to ride but totally different experience (the pass roads are very good and not too narrow - no problem even with a camper)

Take your time and get off the main roads. Very nice but small roads are the lake side roads at Lake Como and Lake Garda (here especially to the northern end of the lake).

Johannes
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Old 07-24-2011   #30
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Hi raid,

Sounds like a plan. I suggest adding an AF lens on the e-p2, kit zoom or preferably pancake, and let your wife and daughters use it as a point and shoot the rest of the time. We didn't coordinate with my wife on packing for our trip and ended up with two digitals for no reason. Like I said earlier, we had the space so no worries.

Cheers,
Rob
Dana and Lina may have their digital cameras with them, but the suggestion to use the 17mm pancake lens is good since it would give AF and AE.
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Old 07-24-2011   #31
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Travel in central Europe does not require special gear. Take what suits best to your photographic style and enjoy your time! Nice trip that you're planning.

Don't underestimate distances - lot's of potential for traffic jams especially in July/August on all streets crossing the alps (both Austria/Italy and Switzerland/Italy) - many friends from Northern Europe go south these days. If you have spare time, take one of the pass roads instead of the highway tunnels or bridges. One hour more to ride but totally different experience (the pass roads are very good and not too narrow - no problem even with a camper)

Take your time and get off the main roads. Very nice but small roads are the lake side roads at Lake Como and Lake Garda (here especially to the northern end of the lake).

Johannes
Hello Johannes,
I have built into my driving plans such possibilities. Therefore, I am taking the faster route from Germany to Lake Como, due to the distance, but I will take the Alpine road on the way back. Also, I have built in an extra day for relaxing in Salzburg,and then a night close to Munich, so that driving distances are not too great.
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Old 07-25-2011   #32
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I decided on this set-up: it fit very well into a smaller sized camera bagt, and it is very functional.
Cameras: Leica M6 plus Olympus EP-2
Lenses: 35/1.4, 75/1.4, 25/4 (can be used with both cameras) plus the 17/2.8 pancake AF lens for the EP-2.

I will be meeting Robert (RFF) at Lake Como.
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Old 07-25-2011   #33
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I like film but I have to say that the combination of film+digital is interesting. Desiring to travel light in my last two short journeys (4 days south italy and 1 week Arles) i used the m7 (35-50-75 but only used the 35 and 50) with provia 100F for the outside photos and the x1 at 400-800-sometimes more for interiors shots, when higher iso was a must. Not too heavy to bring around and good results, which I'll post in a short time.
See you in a couple of week, ciao
robert
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Old 07-25-2011   #34
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See you soon, Robert.

I may drop the 75 Lux and use instead a 50/1.5. On the EP-2 it would be a 100/1.5 portrait lens. This makes the camera bag lighter.
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Old 07-25-2011   #35
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Raid, if there is a lot of driving and sightseeing, why not take the MF gear. As you know the quality is worth the extra weight - I try to take MF except if I'm planning extreme hiking, where weight is really an issue. Also, on group outings where the inconvenience of changing film too frequently might cause me to be left behind, do I give in and take 35mm.
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Old 07-25-2011   #36
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If you have the space I would certainly take a MF camera. I stayed in Sirmione (Garda) a few years back and did all of the surrounds, really regretted taking a really light kit. Will be doing something similar myself next year and I will take M9 + 3 and Fuji GF670. This is why I bought the Fuji and exited my Mamiya 6 because of questions like this, should I take it or not. Fuji slides into my M bag so easily.
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Old 07-25-2011   #37
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Add a gsw690iii to the list for some scenics, You cant beat it and some velvia for some mountain and lake shots

Nik
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Old 07-25-2011   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenR View Post
Raid, if there is a lot of driving and sightseeing, why not take the MF gear. As you know the quality is worth the extra weight - I try to take MF except if I'm planning extreme hiking, where weight is really an issue. Also, on group outings where the inconvenience of changing film too frequently might cause me to be left behind, do I give in and take 35mm.

I just thought that I had completed packing my camera bag, and then I see these MF fans here!

I would (and I may or may not) replace 35mm lenses with a MF camera with lens to reduce the extra weight and volume.

I have two children (6 and 8) with me, and I will neet quite a few friends there, so an AF camera is very helpful. A MF is more classical, and I would need a light meter. Without using a tripod, a MF is less superior.
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Old 07-25-2011   #39
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If you have the space I would certainly take a MF camera. I stayed in Sirmione (Garda) a few years back and did all of the surrounds, really regretted taking a really light kit. Will be doing something similar myself next year and I will take M9 + 3 and Fuji GF670. This is why I bought the Fuji and exited my Mamiya 6 because of questions like this, should I take it or not. Fuji slides into my M bag so easily.

I could drop one camera from the bag, and use instead a Graflex XLSW with a 24mm equivalent view. Or, take one lens, the 35/1.4 plus M6 plus XLSW.
It is a matter of preference.

Currently:

M6 + Cv 25/4 + 35/1.4 Lux + 50/3.5 Heliar
EP-2 + 7.5mm/5.6 + 17mm/2.8

The Heliar and the CV and the pancake 17mm are very small lenses.
I was thinking that the Heliar with its high resolution would "replace" the MF.
The 7.5mm on the EP-2 is a 15mm lens.
There is lots of felxibility in such a set-up.
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Old 07-25-2011   #40
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Add a gsw690iii to the list for some scenics, You cant beat it and some velvia for some mountain and lake shots

Nik
I have used a G690BL for many years, but it is a very heavy camera to be carried around all day long. It would only be good for the drive from Germany and Italy, and back (from the car).
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