Every Film Being Made Today
Old 10-08-2018   #1
bmattock
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Every Film Being Made Today

I searched but did not notice a link to this anywhere, thought it was interesting and useful:

https://emulsive.org/reviews/every-s...future-of-film

"EVERY SINGLE FILM STOCK STILL MADE TODAY – PART 7: THE COMPLETE A-Z PLUS THOUGHTS ON THE FUTURE OF FILM"

I did note that some of the links to some of the films show 'not in stock' so I am not altogether convinced that all the films listed are available anymore; but it's still a very good list, I think.
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Old 10-08-2018   #2
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Very interesting and potentially very useful. Very helpful to get some info on those "mystery" films that have been stored "wooden casks" or "made by elves in the forbidden forest." Hey man, I just want to know how long to develop this stuff in D76 @72deg... (it does not have development info - but the cross reference info can help you find that - or at least get close.) Brilliant job by the gang at Emulsive.
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Old 10-08-2018   #3
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Kosmo, Rollei, AGFA, Cinestill, Ultrafine, Sillberra and so on are not manufactured films, they are repackaged film from bulk emulsion manufacturers. Like Ilford and Kentmere, Kodak and FujiFilm. Leica does not manufacturing instax film.

Here is no Svema and Tasma films. Factories are closed and in ruins for decades now.
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Old 10-08-2018   #4
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Thanks fir the link.

Interesting web site.
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Old 10-08-2018   #5
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Some of these are ultra rare, like the Fuji Neopan 400CN which seems to be UK only.

My personal gripe has been the lack of choice in 120 color film. 10 out 10 "new" films coming out today are BW, and are almost exclusively 135. If I'd want ISO 400 for general photography Portra is pretty much the only solid option...
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Old 10-08-2018   #6
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Unfortunately the title of the emulsive list is misleading.
It should be "film stock which is currently offered".
Because lots of these films are not freshly made anymore (in the sense of coating), but just discontinued films (by the original manufacturer) which are converted from old expired masterrolls, pancakes or bulk film. That is e.g. the case for Lomography F²/400, Lomography X-Pro, Rollei CR 200 / CN 200 and JCH Street Pan.
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Old 10-08-2018   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archlich View Post
My personal gripe has been the lack of choice in 120 color film. 10 out 10 "new" films coming out today are BW, and are almost exclusively 135. If I'd want ISO 400 for general photography Portra is pretty much the only solid option...
You also have Fujifilm Pro 400H, which is also excellent. And you can push Provia 100F with excellent results to ISO 200/24°, and even still good results to ISO 400/27° ( I am doing that quite regularly if I need the additional speed).
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Old 10-08-2018   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Kosmo, Rollei, AGFA, Cinestill, Ultrafine, Sillberra and so on are not manufactured films, they are repackaged film from bulk emulsion manufacturers. Like Ilford and Kentmere, Kodak and FujiFilm. Leica does not manufacturing instax film.

Here is no Svema and Tasma films. Factories are closed and in ruins for decades now.
The author has a 'rant' section where he deals with the usual quibbles he has been seeing since the publication of his list.

I understand the desire for such a list to be accurate. I also understand that it's nearly impossible to do so; especially given that in many cases, you can find ardent supporters of nearly any theory you can propose, both pro and con, and the shouting quickly drowns out the message.

Bottom line, yes, I'm sure the list is inaccurate. Make a better one, then.
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Old 10-08-2018   #9
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Thanks for the link; Emulsive is hedging on Fuji Neopan Acros 100. I hope they choose to continue it. It is really hard to see a truly unique film go. I'm still mad about Verichrome Pan and that was 30+ or - years ago.
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Old 10-08-2018   #10
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Originally Posted by charjohncarter View Post
Thanks for the link; Emulsive is hedging on Fuji Neopan Acros 100. I hope they choose to continue it. It is really hard to see a truly unique film go. I'm still mad about Verichrome Pan and that was 30+ or - years ago.
Heck, I am still miffed about Panatomic-X.

Seriously, I'm just glad that there's still film out there to play with. Still working my way through my left-over Shantou Era 100. Very expired, been through way too many heat/cold cycles, stored badly, seems to be still working. Between that an Arista whatever-it-is, I'm doing OK for now.
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Old 10-08-2018   #11
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Why didn’t he publish a list of rebranded film? That would be useful information for shopping.
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Old 12-03-2018   #12
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This list is misleading. Because lots of the mentioned films in the list are just still sold. But not produced anymore!
Especially those films offered by the small 'snake oil peddlers' who are just selling long expired films from leftover warehouse stock at insane rip-off prices like Bellamy Hunt with his 'Street Pan' film.

We have to distinguish between real manufacturers with own emulsion making and coating. And distribution and rebranding companies without own factories. And the snake oil peddlers.

Real film manufacturers are Eastman Kodak, Fujifilm, Harman technology / Ilford Photo, Foma, Polaroid Originals, Agfa (Belgium), InovisCoat/InovisProject, Adox, Film Ferrania, FilmoTec, Lucky, Tasma, Shanghai, Micron, Carestream (X-ray film).

Distribution companies without any own production capacities are AgfaPhoto / Lupus Imaging, Lomography, Maco/Rollei-Film, Oriental, Bergger.

And then there are the one-man-shows and snake oil peddlers selling film with their own fantasy label like e.g. Kosmo or Bellamy Hunt / JCH. Whereas Kosmo film is at least just Fomapan 100 from current production, JCH Street Pan is long expired film from Agfa which last production run was coated more than ten years ago. A long discontinued film which expired leftovers are sold now at ridiculous high prices to hipsters with no knowledge and deep pockets who believe any marketing nonsense. As this is only leftover stock, this film was dead right from the beginning. It has no future: When this stock is sold, it is gone forever.

With re-labelling some companies make extra-money: For example you can buy Kentmere 100 and 400.
But Harman is offering both films to re-branding companies. Therefore you can get both films under different labels, too.
Kentmere 100 = AgfaPhoto APX 100, Rollei RPX 100, Oriental 100, Fotoimpex CHM 100.
Kentmere 400 = AgfaPhoto APX 400, Rollei RPX 400, Oriental 400, Fotoimpex CHM 400.
If you buy the Kentmeres for example as Rollei RPX 100 / 400, you pay more than a buck more under the Rollei name for the same film!

Rollei Retro 80s = Rollei RPX 25 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 80. All the same film, but significantly more expensive under the RPX 25 name.
Rollei Superpan 200 = Rollei Retro 400s = Rollei IR = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200. Same film, but again different names and prices.
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Old 12-03-2018   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentia1 View Post
This list is misleading. Because lots of the mentioned films in the list are just still sold. But not produced anymore!
Especially those films offered by the small 'snake oil peddlers' who are just selling long expired films from leftover warehouse stock at insane rip-off prices like Bellamy Hunt with his 'Street Pan' film.

We have to distinguish between real manufacturers with own emulsion making and coating. And distribution and rebranding companies without own factories. And the snake oil peddlers.

Real film manufacturers are Eastman Kodak, Fujifilm, Harman technology / Ilford Photo, Foma, Polaroid Originals, Agfa (Belgium), InovisCoat/InovisProject, Adox, Film Ferrania, FilmoTec, Lucky, Tasma, Shanghai, Micron, Carestream (X-ray film).

Distribution companies without any own production capacities are AgfaPhoto / Lupus Imaging, Lomography, Maco/Rollei-Film, Oriental, Bergger.

And then there are the one-man-shows and snake oil peddlers selling film with their own fantasy label like e.g. Kosmo or Bellamy Hunt / JCH. Whereas Kosmo film is at least just Fomapan 100 from current production, JCH Street Pan is long expired film from Agfa which last production run was coated more than ten years ago. A long discontinued film which expired leftovers are sold now at ridiculous high prices to hipsters with no knowledge and deep pockets who believe any marketing nonsense. As this is only leftover stock, this film was dead right from the beginning. It has no future: When this stock is sold, it is gone forever.

With re-labelling some companies make extra-money: For example you can buy Kentmere 100 and 400.
But Harman is offering both films to re-branding companies. Therefore you can get both films under different labels, too.
Kentmere 100 = AgfaPhoto APX 100, Rollei RPX 100, Oriental 100, Fotoimpex CHM 100.
Kentmere 400 = AgfaPhoto APX 400, Rollei RPX 400, Oriental 400, Fotoimpex CHM 400.
If you buy the Kentmeres for example as Rollei RPX 100 / 400, you pay more than a buck more under the Rollei name for the same film!

Rollei Retro 80s = Rollei RPX 25 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 80. All the same film, but significantly more expensive under the RPX 25 name.
Rollei Superpan 200 = Rollei Retro 400s = Rollei IR = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200. Same film, but again different names and prices.

Thanks for the updates Jan!
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Old 12-03-2018   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentia1 View Post
This list is misleading.
Probably. Don't know, don't care.

I don't get involved in those kinds of discussions anymore. Years ago, I made the mistake of pointing out that a certain 'brand' of film was not actually being manufactured by that company, but was instead 'produced' meaning relabeled. The hatred and vitriol that followed was quite enough, thank you.

I say let people believe whatever nonsense they like. I merely provided a link to an interesting website and others can decide if it's useful, useless, factual, or all stuff and nonsense.

As I've said before, at a certain point, facts related to photography become religious arguments, and there is no winning those. Certain cookies are made in trees by elves. Sure, buddy. Whatever you want to believe is fine.
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Old 12-03-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentia1 View Post
...
Distribution companies without any own production capacities are...Bergger.

...
Are you sure about that? Who makes Bergger Pancro 400? I thought they produce it.
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Old 12-03-2018   #16
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Originally Posted by bmattock View Post
I don't get involved in those kinds of discussions anymore.
Amen. I didn't post anything about this link when I first saw it for this exact reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentia1 View Post
We have to distinguish between real manufacturers with own emulsion making and coating. And distribution and rebranding companies without own factories...
Well then why not write an article for Emulsive? They are actively looking for content.

Submission info here.
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Old 12-03-2018   #17
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Are you sure about that? Who makes Bergger Pancro 400? I thought they produce it.
I believe Bergger is manufactured by Inovis.
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Old 12-03-2018   #18
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Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
Amen. I didn't post anything about this link when I first saw it for this exact reason.
I've always been interested in the photography industry as a whole. The history, the people, the camera makers, lens makers, films, and so on. I've got books on the history of photography and photographers by the dozens if not hundreds and I really enjoy trying to sort out the facts behind various aspects of it.

But along the way, I realized that a) not many people are as interested in the minutia of this stuff as I am and b) some people take great offense if you puncture one of their firmly-held beliefs. Sacred cows and all that.

So let it be. If someone wishes to believe that elves make cookies, who am I to say they are wrong?
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Old 12-03-2018   #19
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
I believe Bergger is manufactured by Inovis.
Ok, so Invois is like a Carestream. That would imply that Inovis produces Bergger Pancro 400 for Bergger likely using a Bergger formulation. So if anything it is toll coated, but not necessarily a rebranded film.

edit: This confirms that- https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...ro-400.122223/

"David A. Goldfarb said:
I'm enthusiastic to see a new film on the market, but still feeling a lack of clarity on what it is.
Can you say definitively that this is an entirely new film, unique to Bergger, that has not been marketed under any other brand name in the past, and is not currently being marketed under another brand?

Yes, I do !
Aurélien LE DUC
BERGGER CEO"

(mainly interested because I shot a roll of 120 earlier this year, and just finished a roll of 35mm)
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Old 12-03-2018   #20
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Originally Posted by markjwyatt View Post
Ok, so Invois is like a Carestream. That would imply that Inovis produces Bergger Pancro 400 for Bergger likely using a Bergger formulation. So if anything it is toll coated, but not necessarily a rebranded film.
Perhaps. I do not know who is responsible for the formulation. Could be Inovis offers several variations to choose from.
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Old 12-03-2018   #21
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Perhaps. I do not know who is responsible for the formulation. Could be Inovis offers several variations to choose from.
According to the CEO of Bergger the formulation is unique to them.
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Old 12-10-2018   #22
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Originally Posted by css9450 View Post
Thanks for the updates Jan!
??
My name is not Jan.
Update?
I've not written about that topic here so far. But it is easy to get a clear picture about all that just by using and comparing the films. Measure with a densitometer and evaluate the characteristic curve and you immediately see if a film is just repackaged. Talk to others who have done that (e.g. the rff member get-together at Photokina) and you see they got the same results.
And I am in permanent conversation with a friend who is working at Agfa. Lots of current repackaged films are former (long ago discontinued) Agfa Belgium films.
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Old 12-10-2018   #23
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Originally Posted by bmattock View Post
I don't get involved in those kinds of discussions anymore. Years ago, I made the mistake of pointing out that a certain 'brand' of film was not actually being manufactured by that company, but was instead 'produced' meaning relabeled. The hatred and vitriol that followed was quite enough, thank you.
I can understand you. Those small companies and one-man-shows selling film under a (fantasy) name are often very brutal against the photographers who tell the truth.
The truth that film manufacturing is very difficult and cannot be made by small film dealers.
The truth that lots of films are just repackaged and sold at a much higher price.
The truth that lots of these films are sold with wrong data sheets.
The truth that lots of these films were long ago discontinued and are already expired for a very long time.
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Old 12-10-2018   #24
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Thanks for sharing. There is one film I don't see in the list, even though it's now sold under the Lomo banner. Before it was sold independently in SE Asia as the Infiniti Uxi brand in 100 and 200 ISO. I used to buy it in Vietnam.
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Old 12-10-2018   #25
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Are you sure about that? Who makes Bergger Pancro 400? I thought they produce it.
Yes, I am. And it is not a secret at all, but public available knowledge. Many many times confirmed at photrio for example.
If you are looking for a Bergger factory in France you won't find any, because Bergger never had one (their precursor company had one for paper, but that was decades ago).
Pancro 400 is made by Inoviscoat in Germany (there is also a "Made in Germany" on the box). They designed the film, they make the emulsion and coating.
It is correct that this film is currently only sold to Bergger. You cannot get it under different names.
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Old 12-10-2018   #26
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Ok, so Invois is like a Carestream. That would imply that Inovis produces Bergger Pancro 400 for Bergger likely using a Bergger formulation.
No, Inoviscoat is quite different to Carestream. Different business models.
Inoviscoat is designing products by themself. Than offering it to customers. They have designed the Pancro 400.
Bergger has no own film formulations. The Bergger owner is a biologist, not a chemist or photo engineer (I talked to him at Photokina 2016). The former Bergger BRF 400 was repackaged Filmotec N74.

Inoviscoat has also designed and coated color films like Lomochrome Purple and Tourquois for the Lomography company.
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Old 12-10-2018   #27
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Perhaps a world map showing the location and company of film making facilities. Looking at this thread has also made me wonder, what about the support industry for making film. For instance, when Ilford cuts film into 35mm where do they go to get the metal film cartridges? Do they make them or are they purchased from a outside vendor. Same question for backing paper and spindles for 120.

Now that brings up another question. I wonder. If I pay $6 for a 36 exposure roll of (place B&W film here), then how much of that is for the metal film can, plastic container, paper packaging, inventory control, shipping to dealer, markup, etc.?
Would it be, say .5 of the price, or $3, or is there a way to even estimate the figure?

And while where on it, in 35mm, how come bulk film is so blasted expensive? Compared to just buying prepackaged film that is. Sometimes the difference in price is very small. And when you include the problems of preventing contamination scratching the crap out of your film after using a cartridge 10~20 times. Well, any advantage to bulk, at least in price, could evaporate.
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Old 12-10-2018   #28
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Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Perhaps a world map showing the location and company of film making facilities.
Was made several times on other forums in the past. Here is a current list of film and/or paper coating factories. In alphabetical order:

Belgium:
- Agfa

China:
- Lucky (film and RA-4 paper)
- Shanghai

Czech:
- Foma

England:
- Harman technology / Ilford Photo

Germany:
- Adox
- Filmotec (only emulsion production)
- Inoviscoat/Inovisproject

Italy:
- Film Ferrania

Japan:
- Fujifilm (film and RA-4 paper)

Netherlands:
- Fujifilm (paper)
- Polaroid Originals (instant film assembling; coating is made by Inovis in Germany)

Russia:
- Tasma
- Micron
- Slavich

Switzerland:
- Adox (the former Ilford Imaging facility)

USA:
- Eastman Kodak
- Carestream (x-ray film and toll coating of Kodak Alaris RA-4 paper)
- Fujifilm (RA-4 paper)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Looking at this thread has also made me wonder, what about the support industry for making film. For instance, when Ilford cuts film into 35mm where do they go to get the metal film cartridges?
Ilford makes the 35mm cartridges by themselves. Fujifilm and Kodak as well.
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Old 12-10-2018   #29
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What about Infiniti Uxi.
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Old 12-10-2018   #30
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Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
What about Infiniti Uxi.
Never heard of it. A film manufacturer with that name has never existed. Therefore it has to be some repackaged stuff. Maybe even weird long expired film.
Selling outdated, long expired film to customers without telling them that it is expired is unfortunately done by several film dealers / one-man shows / snake oil peddlers.
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Old 03-30-2019   #31
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Sillberra and so on are not manufactured films, they are repackaged film from bulk emulsion manufacturers.

Here is no Svema and Tasma films. Factories are closed and in ruins for decades now.
From what I know, Silberra tried making new emulsions and shown some tests of its films before going to the mass production. They're using some other company's lines, though. Some films were definitely repackaged, for example their color films.

Tasma is very much alive. Company isn't just dealing with private customers and they're selling films in large quantities only (on some russian forum people are doing group buy once in a while 25-50 or more bulk rolls at once).
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Old 03-30-2019   #32
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From what I know, Silberra tried making new emulsions and shown some tests of its films before going to the mass production. They're using some other company's lines, though. Some films were definitely repackaged, for example their color films.
There is only one new emulsion / film: Silberra ORTA 50. That is made by Mikron for Silberra. Mikron is a very small russian manufacturer for holography films. All other Silberra films are just re-packaged stuff. Mostly Agfa aerial film: Aviphot Pan 80 and Aviphot Pan 200.

Quote:
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Tasma is very much alive. Company isn't just dealing with private customers and they're selling films in large quantities only (on some russian people are doing group buy once in a while 25-50 or more bulk rolls at once).
That is correct. They are especially producing for the Russian government and military. But for us enthusiast and pictorial photographers Tasma has no importance.
We should really concentrate on - and buy from - those photo film manufacturers who are producing for us enthusiast photographers. The real manufacturers who have a focus on classic film photography:
Kodak
Fujifilm
Ilford
Foma
Adox
(and maybe in the mid-term future Film Ferrania, but they still have a very long way to go).
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Old 03-30-2019   #33
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Originally Posted by GorV View Post
From what I know, Silberra tried making new emulsions and shown some tests of its films before going to the mass production. They're using some other company's lines, though. Some films were definitely repackaged, for example their color films.

Tasma is very much alive. Company isn't just dealing with private customers and they're selling films in large quantities only (on some russian forum people are doing group buy once in a while 25-50 or more bulk rolls at once).

GorV, welcome to RFF!


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Old 03-31-2019   #34
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GorV, welcome to RFF!


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Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
There is only one new emulsion / film: Silberra ORTA 50. That is made by Mikron for Silberra. Mikron is a very small russian manufacturer for holography films. All other Silberra films are just re-packaged stuff. Mostly Agfa aerial film: Aviphot Pan 80 and Aviphot Pan 200.



That is correct. They are especially producing for the Russian government and military. But for us enthusiast and pictorial photographers Tasma has no importance.
We should really concentrate on - and buy from - those photo film manufacturers who are producing for us enthusiast photographers. The real manufacturers who have a focus on classic film photography:
Kodak
Fujifilm
Ilford
Foma
Adox
(and maybe in the mid-term future Film Ferrania, but they still have a very long way to go).
I guess Ilford's (as well as Kodak and others) fine on its own. What company do concern me is Fujifilm: they're upping their prices heavily while lowering number of their films in production. If it'll be going like that, they'll just close all of the factories left in the end. Wish they'd raise the prices for another 10%, but kept the line of films untouched.

P.S.: in such complicated market, as Russia is now, there will be some room left for Tasma, because there is demand for films at a good price, where major brands can't compete for now. Tasma's prices are nicer than Foma ones with no much logistics issues, while quality is good enough.
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Old 04-03-2019   #35
Skiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorV View Post
I guess Ilford's (as well as Kodak and others) fine on its own.
Unfortunately not. At least not Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris: Eastman Kodak (manufacturer of the films) has just published their financial data for 2018. And they made 19 million dollar loss with their film division. Kodak Alaris (distributor of the Kodak films) will sell its film division. So far we don't know to whom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GorV View Post
What company do concern me is Fujifilm: they're upping their prices heavily while lowering number of their films in production.
And that will keep them probably alive and profitable: 1. Concentrating on the products with sufficient demand and axing the products which make losses. 2. Making the prices the industry really needs for a sustainable future. Have a look at the presentation of CEO M. Böddecker of ADOX at the Helsinki photo fair:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-W...ature=youtu.be
He clearly explains that the industry needs this higher price level of 20-30% higher prices to keep the lines running profitable in the long term.
Fujifilm has made a clear statement at last Photokina that they will continue production of standard (non-instax) film. And of course instax, too, which is a booming product (they sold more than 10 million instax cameras and more than 40 million instax films in 2018).
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