Kodak T-Max 120 price increase?
Old 10-02-2018   #1
Dante_Stella
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Kodak T-Max 120 price increase?

Just noticed a propack of TMY 120 had jumped, apparently in the last month or two, from 25.5 to 32 per propack at B&H and Adorama.

Was this increase announced somewhere?

Dante
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Old 10-02-2018   #2
Ted Striker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
Just noticed a propack of TMY 120 had jumped, apparently in the last month or two, from 25.5 to 32 per propack at B&H and Adorama.

Was this increase announced somewhere?

Dante

Wow. A 25% increase is pretty huge. Hard to blame Kodak though as they need to increase their cash flow. Buy the film at this price or don't buy it at all.
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Old 10-02-2018   #3
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I keep telling myself that when I finish the last 100 rolls of TMY that I have, I will quit film, but where film prices have been passable, I've been replenishing the supply. On the one hand, there has to be a price where the doomsday clock starts - but on the other, $6.50 for a roll of film is still not more than a really expensive coffee or cigarettes for some people.
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Old 10-02-2018   #4
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Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
I keep telling myself that when I finish the last 100 rolls of TMY that I have, I will quit film, but where film prices have been passable, I've been replenishing the supply. On the one hand, there has to be a price where the doomsday clock starts - but on the other, $6.50 for a roll of film is still not more than a really expensive coffee or cigarettes for some people.
Film is only going to get more expensive so buying now saves money in the future. If I still shot TMY, I would buy up as much stock as I could to reduce my overall costs.
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Old 10-02-2018   #5
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TMY has always been very expensive in LF. When 120 TMX finally got back into production, the price was much more than before, IIRC. It seems they have just normalized the price to TMX. If they made the upcharge from TMX to TMY similar to 4x5 sheets, I would expect the price to eventually hit $40 for a propack.

I've never thought TMY was some amazing, indispensable film, though some do think that - so I am just fine with HP5+ and a low-grain developer.
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Old 10-02-2018   #6
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I've always used TMAX400 film. Until the paper fiasco ruined the experience for me.

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Old 10-02-2018   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Film is only going to get more expensive so buying now saves money in the future. If I still shot TMY, I would buy up as much stock as I could to reduce my overall costs.
Film always gets more expensive, but that's because we have long memories of its being cheap - memories untethered to precisely when it was "cheap." For example, TMY was $2.50 a roll about 13 years ago... but that doesn't account for what $2.50 would be with inflation.

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Old 10-02-2018   #8
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New backing paper likely didn’t come cheap.
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Old 10-02-2018   #9
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A sudden 25% price increase may not add to Kodak's revenue, it might push photographers to other films. Freestyle Photo alone lists 69 different types of film in 120. Their Arista EDU Ultra is a really good film, and it's a bargain at $4.29 a roll. I love shooting it and developing in Mic-X full strength, but D76 is good too.
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Old 10-02-2018   #10
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Freestyle has TMX and TMY at $28-29/5 pack. For now, at least.
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Old 10-02-2018   #11
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New backing paper likely didnít come cheap.
Nor the loss of sales during that crisis.
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Old 10-02-2018   #12
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Film is only going to get more expensive, so if you want to shoot it, you may as well suck it up and get on with it.
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Old 10-03-2018   #13
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Film is only going to get more expensive...
Maybe, maybe not. One thing is certain: Film WILL get more expensive if we don't buy it, or don't buy it as much. ALL the manufacturers depend on us to keep the machines running. Not just Kodak... Fuji, Ilford, Foma, Adox, Cinestill, Arista, Shanghai, Bergger, Rollei... Ferrania has a 120 film in the works, etc, etc. Much optimism last week at Photokina! Film is on the rebound and we can all do our part. Fuji's Instax system is enormously successful and there is no reason the "traditional" formats can't do so as well.

Cheers,
Robert
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Old 10-03-2018   #14
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Originally Posted by Filter Factor View Post
Maybe, maybe not. One thing is certain: Film WILL get more expensive if we don't buy it, or don't buy it as much. ALL the manufacturers depend on us to keep the machines running. Not just Kodak... Fuji, Ilford, Foma, Adox, Cinestill, Arista, Shanghai, Bergger, Rollei... Ferrania has a 120 film in the works, etc, etc. Much optimism last week at Photokina! Film is on the rebound and we can all do our part. Fuji's Instax system is enormously successful and there is no reason the "traditional" formats can't do so as well.

Cheers,
Robert
Why was there optimism about film at Photokina? I have not heard one report about film from that convention aside from Fuji's INSTAX. As we know, Fujifilm has no interest in any film aside from INSTAX so the success of that film means nothing for non-instant film.

What else happened at Photokina?
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Old 10-03-2018   #15
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Why don't you buy Ilford FP-4? Its $2/roll cheaper!
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Old 10-03-2018   #16
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Why don't you buy Ilford FP-4? Its $2/roll cheaper!
It's not 400 speed! The OP was discussing TMAX400.
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Old 10-03-2018   #17
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Why was there optimism about film at Photokina?
I've been there. We've also had a very nice get-together with other rff members there.
Optimism: Because all companies there making business in traditional film photography were reporting significantly increasing demand.
New products were presented. And new companies showed up there. The film revival is getting stronger.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
I have not heard one report about film from that convention aside from Fuji's INSTAX. As we know, Fujifilm has no interest in any film aside from INSTAX so the success of that film means nothing for non-instant film.
Sorry, that is absolutely wrong. Again the same misinformation.
Fujifilm has given a clear statement at Photokina that they remain committed to standard film and continue to produce it. It was printed on the film exhibition walls, and on the film programme flyers which everyone could pick up. They had the best presentation of their standard films since 2012. A real, obvious and positive difference compared the the two Photokinas before. Even some sheet film formats (reversal) are back. Another clear signal that Fujifilm is continuing with standard film.
Furthermore they have introduced
- another new instax camera
- another new RA-4 silver-halide color photo paper called Maxima, with increased color stability of 40% (!) and increased Dmax of 20%
- they had huge exhibitions not only on their booth, but also in other halls promoting real photo prints - to encourage photographers to get the real thing instead of low-quality computer-monitor viewing - their activities in this regard were amazing
- they have also exhibited their RA-4 minilab printing machines.
The Fujifilm booth was excellent. One of best - probably the best - of the whole fair.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
What else happened at Photokina?
A lot. It would be a waste of time for me to list all the other very positive news for film photographers.

Cheers, Jan

Last edited by HHPhoto : 10-03-2018 at 08:22. Reason: typo
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Old 10-03-2018   #18
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
I've been there. We've also had a very nice get-together with other rff members there.
Optimism: Because all companies there making business in traditional film photography were reporting significantly increasing demand.
New products were presented. And new companies showed up there. The film revival is getting stronger.

Sorry, that is absolutely wrong. Again the same misinformation.
Fujifilm has given a clear statement at Photokina that they remain committed to standard film and continue to produce it. It was printed on the film exhibition walls, and on the film programme flyers which everyone could pick up. They had the best presentation of their standard films since 2012. A real, obvious and positive difference compared the the two Photokinas before. Even some sheet film formats (reversal) are back. Another clear signal that Fujifilm is continuing with standard film.
Furthermore they have introduced
- another new instax camera
- another new RA-4 silver-halide color photo paper called Maxima, with increased color stability of 40% (!) and increased Dmax of 20%
- they had huge exhibitions not only on their booth, but also in other halls promoting real photo prints - to encourage photographers to get the real thing instead of low-quality computer-monitor viewing - their activities in this regard were amazing
- they have also exhibited their RA-4 minilab printing machines.
The Fujifilm booth was excellent. One of best - probably the best - of the whole fair.

A lot. But it would be a waste of time for me to list all the other very positive news for film photographers.

Cheers, Jan
Any photos or links to this show of support?

Edit: I went searching for said show of support from Fujifilm and came up 100% empty. Even Fujifilm's own publication on their Photokina exhibits makes no mention whatsoever of traditional still film. As I would have guessed, only INSTAX gets a mention.

http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n180911.html
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Old 10-03-2018   #19
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Any photos or links to this show of support?
Of course, numerous e.g. on social media groups. E.g. have a look at the Fotoimpex Facebook page.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 10-03-2018   #20
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Of course, numerous e.g. on social media groups. E.g. have a look at the Fotoimpex Facebook page.

Cheers, Jan
Here are the pictures:
https://www.facebook.com/FOTOIMPEX/p...type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/FOTOIMPEX/p...type=3&theater

Cheers, Jan
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Old 10-03-2018   #21
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Thank you for posting those links. I wish Fujifilm distributed that message far better. Why not put it on their website? It seems inexplicable to not do that.
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Old 10-03-2018   #22
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Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
Film always gets more expensive, but that's because we have long memories of its being cheap - memories untethered to precisely when it was "cheap." For example, TMY was $2.50 a roll about 13 years ago... but that doesn't account for what $2.50 would be with inflation.

Dante
$2.50 in 2003 dollars is about $3.15 today. The bigger issue is what's happened to the price of silver over those 15 years. In late 2003, spot silver was priced at $4.82/oz. It jumped to nearly $50/oz in 2011 before settling to around $15/oz today. Kodak can no longer count on silver recovery during processing to help mitigate costs(**), so we take the hit with ever-increasing film prices.

(**) A friend of my dad who worked at Kodak Hollywood once told him that Kodak covered virtually all of their fixed costs with silver recovery from film and print processing.
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Old 10-03-2018   #23
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Thank you for posting those links. I wish Fujifilm distributed that message far better. Why not put it on their website? It seems inexplicable to not do that.
You're welcome. Fujifilm had such a gigantic booth exhibiting so much
- instax in many different ways
- standard film
- silver-halide paper in many different ways
- photofinishing equipment (minilab machines)
- their global Fujifilm Wonder Store concept
- their print exhitions
- desk where visitors could use instax and make scrapbooking and other creative things with Instax shots
- digital X cameras in many ways.
There were so much action that is impossible to show all that on their website.

And: Photokina is also a B2B fair: The Fujifilm partners and distributors have seen the statement.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 10-03-2018   #24
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Hopefully their deeds will match their words, and they won't discontinue any more films.
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Old 10-04-2018   #25
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Hopefully their deeds will match their words, and they won't discontinue any more films.

Hopefully yes, but I'm being realistic about it. Fujfilm's discontinuation of Acros is a massive blow to their efforts. That film was so amazing, with such incredible reciprocity characteristics that the loss is very regretful. If that film can be lost, any film can be lost. The same with Superia 1600. Incredibly low grain for such a high speed film with spectacular color. I never tried this film until just this year and the results I got from it were incredible. Fujifilm didnt market the film so I hardly knew it even existed. You can't sell what your customers are unaware of. Basic marketing 101.
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Old 10-04-2018   #26
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B&H now has some of the highest prices on film of the major retailers, so I dont think its a kodak price change. more likely they are looking to make a little extra $



you can find TMY in 120 film for $25 a pro pack at many places. Samy's for example. they are also about $1.50 a roll cheaper on velvia 50 in 120 than B&H
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Old 10-04-2018   #27
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B&H now has some of the highest prices on film of the major retailers, so I dont think its a kodak price change. more likely they are looking to make a little extra $



you can find TMY in 120 film for $25 a pro pack at many places. Samy's for example. they are also about $1.50 a roll cheaper on velvia 50 in 120 than B&H
Samy's is cheaper for 120 and a lot more expensive (by more than a buck) for 35mm. Guess it depends on your product mix. Note also that B&H prices based on marginal cost of replacing stock, meaning that if Samy's doesn't generally reset prices until it orders again, it's going to be a steep climb.

Dante
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Old 10-05-2018   #28
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well three months ago I bought all the stock they had of velvia 50 in 120. 2 weeks later it came back in stock at the same price. here's hoping the 120 prices stay the same.
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