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Leica M -- Leica CL / Minolta CLE - Film This forum is about all things Leica CL and Minolta CLE, remarkable compact M film cameras

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Old 09-20-2018   #1
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Originally Posted by mark_pw View Post
I have a film CL. I am seriously considering to bring a digital CL home. I checked eBay and found the price of used digital CL is dropping quite steadily. It seems the longer I wait, the cheaper it can be. What do you think?
There is no magic to this. The longer you wait, the cheaper it will be. It just depends on how long you want to wait, which only you can decide.
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Old 09-20-2018   #2
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Yep, I would figure the CL/T line to probably be the weakest Leica line in terms of retained value over time. They all go down, absolutely, but this product is less likely to be worth all that much in a year or two compared to an M or SL of the same time period.
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Old 09-20-2018   #3
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Looks like the OP (mark_pw) deleted his original post starting this thread.
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Old 09-20-2018   #4
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it happens with all digital cameras, the longer you wait, the cheaper they get.
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Old 09-20-2018   #5
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Unhappy

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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Look like the OP (mark_pw) deleted his original post starting this thread.
How could it be done?

I don't realise it's deleted. Luckily someone quoted it.
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Old 09-20-2018   #6
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
it happens with all digital cameras, the longer you wait, the cheaper they get.
Very true. I believe I could sell my CL film at at the same price I bought it 5 years ago.
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Old 09-20-2018   #7
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Originally Posted by Gregm61 View Post
Yep, I would figure the CL/T line to probably be the weakest Leica line in terms of retained value over time. They all go down, absolutely, but this product is less likely to be worth all that much in a year or two compared to an M or SL of the same time period.
The falling price of them also drags the price of the T lenses.
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Old 09-20-2018   #8
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It used to be possible for a poster to delete his own posts, but if that was the first post of a thread, deleting it wiped out the whole thread. Many members were annoyed by this. So, fairly recently, this ability to delete posts was removed. If you want your post deleted, ask a moderator!

So, in regard to the first post of this thread, it's not possible that this includes a quote from the actual first post which was then deleted. It can be made to look as it does by copy/paste a quote from another thread, and I expect that's how it was done.
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Old 09-21-2018   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
It used to be possible for a poster to delete his own posts, but if that was the first post of a thread, deleting it wiped out the whole thread. Many members were annoyed by this. So, fairly recently, this ability to delete posts was removed. If you want your post deleted, ask a moderator!

So, in regard to the first post of this thread, it's not possible that this includes a quote from the actual first post which was then deleted. It can be made to look as it does by copy/paste a quote from another thread, and I expect that's how it was done.
That might be what has happened. I found this forum logged me out quite easily. I used to copy the post before hit the "submit" or "post" button. In case I was logged out, I don't need to retype the whole thing.
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Old 09-21-2018   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
It used to be possible for a poster to delete his own posts, but if that was the first post of a thread, deleting it wiped out the whole thread. Many members were annoyed by this. So, fairly recently, this ability to delete posts was removed. If you want your post deleted, ask a moderator!

So, in regard to the first post of this thread, it's not possible that this includes a quote from the actual first post which was then deleted. It can be made to look as it does by copy/paste a quote from another thread, and I expect that's how it was done.
I did not start the thread. I was the second post responding to and quoting the first post which has since been deleted. I have no interest in buying the Leica CL. I suspect the OP realized it was a dumb post and had it deleted.
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Old 09-21-2018   #11
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Right you are, ptpdprinter! Yes, the OP wrote of the digital CL which is not the same CL that is the subject of this forum sub-section! A confusion which is not uncommon apparently. For example, the Flickr "Leica CL" group, which has been in existence for a decade (IE, long before there was a digital CL), has turned almost exclusively digital since that camera was introduced.

The is the forum for the remarkable Leica CL and Minolta CLE FILM cameras. Perhaps our Head Bartender can establish another place for the digitals to discuss?
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Old 09-21-2018   #12
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Ah, interesting...
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Old 09-21-2018   #13
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I think it also applies to the SL.
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Old 09-21-2018   #14
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Ah, if you were on LUF, the only dedicated forum for the CL is for the digital version. The film one got shoved in with the film M's, and possibly never had it's own sub-forum (at least I can't find any archival evidence that there was).

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Old 09-22-2018   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
It used to be possible for a poster to delete his own posts, but if that was the first post of a thread, deleting it wiped out the whole thread. Many members were annoyed by this. So, fairly recently, this ability to delete posts was removed. If you want your post deleted, ask a moderator!

So, in regard to the first post of this thread, it's not possible that this includes a quote from the actual first post which was then deleted. It can be made to look as it does by copy/paste a quote from another thread, and I expect that's how it was done.
I have to admit to the error here. I`m travelling, using a different type of computer, and I tried to move this from the M mount CL to the digital section and I messed up. Sorry ALL. I only moved the OP not the thread. Sorry.
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Old 09-25-2018   #16
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I'm right that the price of digital CL is dropping. That one (https://ebay.to/2NDsdyn) could be $2500 and it includes a M to TL adapter. I'd stick to M lenses. I believe they preserve values better than those TL lenses.
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Old 09-26-2018   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_pw View Post
I'd stick to M lenses. I believe they preserve values better than those TL lenses.
And Leica did a great job making sure the M lenses (and even some of the CV lenses that don’t play well with digital M cameras) work extremely well on the digital CL
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Old 09-26-2018   #18
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I owned three film CL cameras at different points in my life, and now own and use the digital CL. In all cases, excellent cameras.

With the digital model, the native lenses are superb and provide all the functionality of the camera, although I don't own one yet. I am using the CL with my R lenses primarily, and my M lenses after that. They work extremely well on this body, particularly the R lenses because of their ergonomics.

The digital CL body is just slightly smaller than the M bodies but a good bit lighter. Set up the way I have it, it works very similarly. The smaller format means that you use shorter focal length lenses as a rule: 18/24/35/50 replaces 28/35/50/75. And you open up a stop to f/5.6 instead of f/8 to get the same DoF. This gives the same feel in photographs.

Love it, a perfect complement to the M-D ... just like the film CL was the perfect complement to the M4 in its day.
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Old 10-05-2018   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
I owned three film CL cameras at different points in my life, and now own and use the digital CL. In all cases, excellent cameras.

With the digital model, the native lenses are superb and provide all the functionality of the camera, although I don't own one yet. I am using the CL with my R lenses primarily, and my M lenses after that. They work extremely well on this body, particularly the R lenses because of their ergonomics.

The digital CL body is just slightly smaller than the M bodies but a good bit lighter. Set up the way I have it, it works very similarly. The smaller format means that you use shorter focal length lenses as a rule: 18/24/35/50 replaces 28/35/50/75. And you open up a stop to f/5.6 instead of f/8 to get the same DoF. This gives the same feel in photographs.

Love it, a perfect complement to the M-D ... just like the film CL was the perfect complement to the M4 in its day.
Good sharing. Thanks.

If I can own a digital CL, I think I will only use R and M lenses. I believe they can retain their values better over time.
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Old 08-30-2019   #20
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Not in the right forum ! Film CL here !
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Old 08-30-2019   #21
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Originally Posted by mark_pw View Post
I'm right that the price of digital CL is dropping. That one (https://ebay.to/2NDsdyn) could be $2500 and it includes a M to TL adapter. I'd stick to M lenses. I believe they preserve values better than those TL lenses.
Mark,

Be aware that at one time Leica offered a "free" M-L adapter with a CL purchase.

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Old 08-30-2019   #22
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And Leica did a great job making sure the M lenses (and even some of the CV lenses that don’t play well with digital M cameras) work extremely well on the digital CL
Jim,

I'm with Godfrey in that the CL is Barnack sized and works well with M and R lenses.

My 50 Lux-R "E60" becomes a 75/1.4 that renders wonderfully. I even use mt Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 stacking a Novaflex adapter onto a M-L mount adapter for a crazy 87/1.2. The CL takes these two great lenses and makes them better by exploiting the center sweet spot.

I love my 28 Cron-M on the CL and the 42mm FOW makes it most like the original CL. This is how I rig the CL as an every-day-carry.

Because of the utility of this camera I think it would be foolish for me to ever sell it, especially since I also own a SL with a "L" mount.

For AF I own the 23 Cron (35mm FOV).

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Old 08-30-2019   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
it happens with all digital cameras, the longer you wait, the cheaper they get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_pw View Post
Very true. I believe I could sell my CL film at at the same price I bought it 5 years ago.
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Not in the right forum ! Film CL here !
The conversation is here, regardless of whether it's "right" or not.

All cameras prices drop as they age, regardless film or digital, until they get to their fully depreciated bottom point. The Leitz CL bottomed out more than 25 years ago; it was discontinued 40 years ago. The digital Leica CL is still a current model and the body is comparatively inexpensive new. I expect fully depreciated in about six years it will sell for $400-$700, maybe less than that.

What difference does it make? Do you want to wait a decade before you buy anything and toss away a decade's worth of making photographs? The digital Leica CL will continue to make the same quality photos it does now in a decade: buying it then will be a bargain, because it makes excellent quality photos now and is worth the price. I'd rather buy it now, new or used, and use it for a decade—the lost opportunity cost of not having it for a decade is much higher than the reduced price.

I bought my Leica CL body new. It's one of the best cameras I've owned. I'll use it until it no longer works, just like my Olympus E-1 (which was a $2500 camera in 2003 and can now be purchased for $100 in good working condition); similar price new to the digital CL. I still use that E-1 too occasionally. Both cameras have made hundreds if not thousands of superb photographs for me.

What's more important to you? Some money or good equipment to make photographs?

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Old 08-30-2019   #24
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Some people have to consider budget restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
The conversation is here, regardless of whether it's "right" or not.

All cameras prices drop as they age, regardless film or digital, until they get to their fully depreciated bottom point. The Leitz CL bottomed out more than 25 years ago; it was discontinued 40 years ago. The digital Leica CL is still a current model and the body is comparatively inexpensive new. I expect fully depreciated in about six years it will sell for $400-$700, maybe less than that.

What difference does it make? Do you want to wait a decade before you buy anything and toss away a decade's worth of making photographs? The digital Leica CL will continue to make the same quality photos it does now in a decade: buying it then will be a bargain, because it makes excellent quality photos now and is worth the price. I'd rather buy it now, new or used, and use it for a decade—the lost opportunity cost of not having it for a decade is much higher than the reduced price.

I bought my Leica CL body new. It's one of the best cameras I've owned. I'll use it until it no longer works, just like my Olympus E-1 (which was a $2500 camera in 2003 and can now be purchased for $100 in good working condition); similar price new to the digital CL. I still use that E-1 too occasionally. Both cameras have made hundreds if not thousands of superb photographs for me.

What's more important to you? Some money or good equipment to make photographs?

G

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Old 08-31-2019   #25
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Some people have to consider budget restrictions.
Of course. I consider my budget restrictions all the time.
I don't buy what I can't afford.

What else is new?

G
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