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Nikon Mirrorless Overdue about 3 years, the Nikon Mirrorless system finally arrived in 2018!

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Canon announces full-frame mirrorless camera as well
Old 09-06-2018   #1
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Canon announces full-frame mirrorless camera as well

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...preview-photos

Enjoy the debate between the Nikon and Canon fans, get yr popcorn out


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Old 09-06-2018   #2
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We thought mirrorless would solve the "bulky" problem. Forget that. Pany is up next.
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Old 09-06-2018   #3
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Apparently the manufacturers are afraid buyers of expensive kit don't want to look like amateurs, so bulky cameras for seriousness are in order...
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Old 09-06-2018   #4
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That thing looks dated already.
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Old 09-06-2018   #5
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As ugly as the Nikon, game over.
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Old 09-06-2018   #6
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Quoting the writer of the article:
“feels as reassuringly chunky in your hand as you’d hope” - with a lens as bulky as that, I guess you’d need a body that feels “chunky”
“Canon has worked hard to rethink what a digital camera should be when it’s no longer bound by the constraints of a flipping mirror box” - from the looks of it, they think it should be as close to a DSLR as possible
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Old 09-06-2018   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannielscom View Post

Enjoy the debate between the Nikon and Canon fans, get yr popcorn out
Once Nikon was pooped out its forum came in no time. But no for Canon, yet.
POTN here I come again.
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Old 09-06-2018   #8
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Horror of horrors! This Canon has no IBIS.

Changing the subject: What is it with these giant lenses?
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Old 09-06-2018   #9
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Maximum aperture, size of the image circle, focal length, and autofocus motors drive lens size. So no matter how small you make the body - a 50mm and up full frame sensor lens for it stays the same size as the DSLR version. There can be a reduction in size for wides since the shorter register distance eliminates the need for a retro-focus design.
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Old 09-06-2018   #10
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Once Nikon was pooped out its forum came in no time. But no for Canon, yet.
POTN here I come again.
That is probably only because we thought it might be the new digital F. Boy was I disappointed. Keep the flame burning Ko I am sure the bartender will get around to the Canon section sometime soon.
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Old 09-06-2018   #11
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That thing looks dated already.
FD 70-80s
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Old 09-06-2018   #12
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more like FD L had sex with EOS L
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Old 09-06-2018   #13
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That thing looks dated already.
Good eye!
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Old 09-06-2018   #14
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There can be a reduction in size for wides since the shorter register distance eliminates the need for a retro-focus design.
Except the issue of light hitting the sensor at oblique angles makes non-retrofocus designs have their own issues, so large retrofocus wides are still a necessity.

Until we have curved sensors and therefore the ability to use simpler, smaller lenses, I don't really care about any of these mirrorless cameras. It's just a slightly smaller camera body with huge lenses, an annoying computer monitor shoved in my eyeball, and no meaningful improvements in handling or usage.
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Old 09-06-2018   #15
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I'm as Canon EOS SLR and DSLR user see nothing outdated but just keeping it in same style. Same layout, same menus. Way better for real photography, instead of making another Sigma.
I didn't know Nikon is this bad and needs two cards. I had three Canon DSLRs over ten years, none has troubles with cards. In fact very first card still works. Something like 200K images taken, no idea why DSLR needs two cards.
IBIS, not sure either. I photograph people with wide to normal lenses and with shutter speeds to eliminate motion blur.
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Old 09-06-2018   #16
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I'm as Canon EOS SLR and DSLR user see nothing outdated but just keeping it in same style. Same layout, same menus. Way better for real photography, instead of making another Sigma.
I didn't know Nikon is this bad and needs two cards. I had three Canon DSLRs over ten years, none has troubles with cards. In fact very first card still works. Something like 200K images taken, no idea why DSLR needs two cards.
IBIS, not sure either. I photograph people with wide to normal lenses and with shutter speeds to eliminate motion blur.
I've never had a card failure either, but if I were shooting weddings I would demand a 2 card camera just to limit the number of potential things that might go wrong when a reshoot just can't happen.
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Old 09-06-2018   #17
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I've never had a card failure either, but if I were shooting weddings I would demand a 2 card camera just to limit the number of potential things that might go wrong when a reshoot just can't happen.
Both Canon and Nikon have purposefully underdeveloped their mirror-less FF cameras to keep the punters craving more juicer and better equipped models, which they will slowly release for temptation and latest and the greatest upgrading, while draining the consumer's bank account funds.

These would not be bad cameras aimed at amateurs priced around 1700 dollars CDN, complete with a crappy zoom kit lens in the Sony style.
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Old 09-06-2018   #18
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no idea why DSLR needs two cards.
Obviously you don't shoot huge weddings for thousands of dollars. Two card, simultaneous backup is deriguour in the business because **** happens and you have to deliver. As well as wifi backup to laptop sometimes as well.

I once dropped a 32GB, name-brand SD card about a foot onto my desk, and it instantly did not work anymore. The issue has nothing to do with the camera and everything to do with the media. SD cards (compared to CF) are more prone to damage in my experience.
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Old 09-06-2018   #19
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I suggest looking at the MTFs. Some of the new lenses blow away previous generations. The RF 50/1.2 as an example. The Z 50/1.8 as well.
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Old 09-06-2018   #20
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This came to mind....


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Old 09-06-2018   #21
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Maybe I missed but anyone know about release date and price?

I really love my Canon 6d and this seem a like a good companion.

Regards

Marcelo
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Old 09-06-2018   #22
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This came to mind....


Good eye.

The camera looks kinda sick with such a big lens. I can't see any advantages over SLRs
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Old 09-06-2018   #23
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Changing the subject: What is it with these giant lenses?
I don't know. I've wondered that too!

It seems that the "normal" 50-ish lens for a modern DSLR is about the size of a peanut butter jar!

I assume that they need the space for the auto-focus machinery (and power zoom and IS) so that makes up quite a bit of the bulk.
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Old 09-06-2018   #24
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the ultra-speed lens trend is part of the post-cameraphone high-end camera trend. it's all about the higher margins.

the hand-wringing about and glorification of shallow depth of field and bokeh follows opportunistically from this situation.
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Old 09-06-2018   #25
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Obviously you don't shoot huge weddings for thousands of dollars. Two card, simultaneous backup is deriguour in the business because **** happens and you have to deliver. As well as wifi backup to laptop sometimes as well.

I once dropped a 32GB, name-brand SD card about a foot onto my desk, and it instantly did not work anymore. The issue has nothing to do with the camera and everything to do with the media. SD cards (compared to CF) are more prone to damage in my experience.
Don't you already have a plethora of semi and full professional gear that has the functionality? Wouldn't you want your gear to be fully bulletproof? Why look at some small inferior product if it doesn't fit your needs? Why complain?
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Old 09-06-2018   #26
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I don't know. I've wondered that too!

It seems that the "normal" 50-ish lens for a modern DSLR is about the size of a peanut butter jar!

I assume that they need the space for the auto-focus machinery (and power zoom and IS) so that makes up quite a bit of the bulk.
It's the glasses. Like I said in another thread, this RF50/1.2 has almost double as much the elements as the (famously soft wide open) 50/1.2L does. It should be much better corrected for the high pixel count sensor, for a price.

It has nothing to do with the camera being mirrorless. Newer full frame SLR lenses are getting huge as well. It's basic physical law.

"But I don't need it to perform this well", people here would say. Personally I'd not to have Mr. Trump in the office either, but...guess that's how the market works.
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Old 09-06-2018   #27
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Maybe I missed but anyone know about release date and price?

I really love my Canon 6d and this seem a like a good companion.

Regards

Marcelo
From the B&H Photo website, body only $2,300 USD. Pre-orders start September 12th. No delivery date, yet.

Jim B.
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Old 09-07-2018   #28
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Obviously you don't shoot huge weddings for thousands of dollars. Two card, simultaneous backup is deriguour in the business because **** happens and you have to deliver. As well as wifi backup to laptop sometimes as well.

I once dropped a 32GB, name-brand SD card about a foot onto my desk, and it instantly did not work anymore. The issue has nothing to do with the camera and everything to do with the media. SD cards (compared to CF) are more prone to damage in my experience.
I agree – dual card slots are important. I too find SDHC cards are more likely to suffer unexpected physical damage.

Of course, Canon will release a R body with more features in the future. The mystery is why they think this is a clever strategy.
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Old 09-07-2018   #29
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Are you guys okay with Canon introducing yet another lens mount?
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Old 09-07-2018   #30
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Depending on how the adaptor works it's not "really" a new mount. Looks like excellent compatibility.
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Old 09-07-2018   #31
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Are you guys okay with Canon introducing yet another lens mount?
Things are getting interesting here: Looks like Canon is going the route of having two different mounts in mirrorless:
1. The already existing one for APS-C line.
2. The new one for FF line.
And of course the established EF mount for SLR / DSLR.

What may Nikon do next?
Offering also APS-C mirrorless cameras with the new Z mount (which is kind of "oversized" for APS-C sensors)?
Or making the same as Canon and offering an additional mount for APS-C?

At least we won't be bored in the near future because so much can be discussed.....
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Old 09-07-2018   #32
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Are you guys okay with Canon introducing yet another lens mount?
I thought it was the same EF type mount that the 5D series uses. Am I mistaken?
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Old 09-07-2018   #33
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I thought it was the same EF type mount that the 5D series uses. Am I mistaken?

I think so - EF lenses wouldn't focus to infinity (shorter lens to sensor distance).
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Old 09-07-2018   #34
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That thing looks dated already.

That was my first reaction too. The question I have to ask is will Fuji continue on their current path of avoiding the full frame format now that Nikon and Canon have finally jumped on board?
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Old 09-07-2018   #35
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It is a great commercial for Leica cameras. They look like Maseratis compared to a Renault 5.
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Old 09-07-2018   #36
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That was my first reaction too. The question I have to ask is will Fuji continue on their current path of avoiding the full frame format now that Nikon and Canon have finally jumped on board?
I still suspect that both Canon and Nikon went into this FF mirrorless thing halfhearted, they still are keen on selling their FF DSLRs instead.

Only the prospects of Sony making better and better FF mirrorless cameras AND making more native lenses in the future actually spurned them on to join the FF Mirrorless bandwagon, Canon and Nikon had to act.

Fujifilm will most likely bypass the FF and go headlong into medium format, their second medium format digital camera is supposedly scheduled to be revealed this month.

https://photorumors.com/2018/04/11/f...mera-concepts/
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Old 09-08-2018   #37
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This came to mind....


Damn, I want one...
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Old 09-08-2018   #38
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I still suspect that both Canon and Nikon went into this FF mirrorless thing halfhearted, they still are keen on selling their FF DSLRs instead.
I don't know about that... it is not like the new Nikons and Canons are not capable cameras... sure, they don't tick every box for spec crazed pixel peepers, but all 3 cameras are sure as hell capable of great results. This is the RFF... we are used to paying more for less. Haha. I'd sure as hell take either Nikon over a Sony... I just prefer Nikon's menus, ergonomics, design etc. That said, I only care about having fast enough AF, which most cameras these days have, and a decent sensor that performs well in low light. I guess it is the price that turns most people off, but when these hit the used market at half the price in a year or two... I think people's perceptions will change.
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