Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Being a Photographer > Photo Books / Mags / Articles / Blogs

Photo Books / Mags / Articles / Blogs This is the place to talk about Photo Books, Photography Magazines, Photography Articles, as well as specialized Photo booksellers. Some books are a lot better than others, so it really does make a difference which ones you buy!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

how-the-duesseldorf-school-revolutionised-photography
Old 08-20-2017   #1
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,921
how-the-duesseldorf-school-revolutionised-photography

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/201...ed-photography

A BBC report: A generation of photographers from Germany transformed photography in the 1980s and 90s, and credit is due to their two teachers, writes Alastair Sooke.



Andreas Gursky’s photograph of a Montparnasse tower block is a stunning mosaic of colour (Credit: Andreas Gursky)
__________________
- Raid

________________


http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #2
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
I just can't get excited about this style. It's kind of like rap music in my book. It's visual noise that's nothing special.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #3
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,921
People often don't agree on art types and styles. For some reason, there exist people who like such photographs.
__________________
- Raid

________________


http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #4
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is online now
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,520
Strange article, IMO. Load of text, yet, tossing four pictures round and round and round and those four pictures are nothing special. Except maybe portrait, which has nothing to do with other pictures. I would like to find more. A. Gursky photo seems to be different from what is in the article.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #5
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
It's fine if people like it but I find it too ordinary. I think much of it looks like glorified amateur snapshots.

A German friend and I went to the High Museum in Atlanta for an exhibition of Struth's photos and a talk he and the director of MOMA were giving. When we left we were quite disappointed. The theme of the show should have been if you can't make it interesting make it big. It consisted of huge boring images accompanied with an even bigger ego. His lecture consisted of how he scouts and visualizes, exactly like every commercial photographer has done for the last century when preparing for a commercial shoot. His lab was good but his photography with the exception one or two images was ordinary and boring. He was however impressed with himself.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #6
aizan
Registered User
 
aizan's Avatar
 
aizan is online now
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Age: 37
Posts: 4,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
I just can't get excited about this style. It's kind of like rap music in my book. It's visual noise that's nothing special.
when people say they like all sorts of music, except rap and country, i roll my eyes. there's tons of fantastic rap and country.
__________________
Ugly Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #7
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
when people say they like all sorts of music, except rap and country, i roll my eyes. there's tons of fantastic rap and country.
5, 4, 3, 2, 1, roll eyes.

It is a good thing we don't all like the same thing and think the same way.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #8
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is online now
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,520
Sometimes rap and country are the same music.

https://youtu.be/y2MG3xaUi7U
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #9
retinax
Registered User
 
retinax is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 945
I've recently seen a big show of the Düsseldorf school here in Frankfurt. The Gurski picture above I found impressive, printed about four meters wide. Some others I liked, others didn't do much for me. They are a diverse bunch, and although they certainly share some ideas and approaches, grouping them together because they studied under the same teachers doesn't quite do them justice. They should have either exhibited them individually rather than in a group show or somehow put in more curatorial effort and grouped them thematically rather then photographer by photographer. That was my impression.
Surprisingly for me, the work that spoke to me most was that of Petra Wunderlich. Photos of quarries and stone buildings, I can't quite put into words what it is about it, and I didn't get it when looking at the pictures online before I went to the exhibit.
There are some pictures to look at at the website of the museum (and some text): http://becherklasse.staedelmuseum.de/en
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #10
kuuan
loves old lenses
 
kuuan's Avatar
 
kuuan is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,607
thank's for the link
still being almost an illiterate concerning famous photographers of course I had never heard of this school, Becher and the other photographers.
I kind of like it, specially the Kiosk of Tata Ronkholz. Permit me say, the style of putting them center, no perspective but from front on, no people..I did the same when I tried to document small, private shops in typical but fast disappearing shopping streets around Osaka.
in the German context music of "Kraftwerk" comes to my mind
__________________
my photos on flickr: : https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #11
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,921
I felt like being "artsy" this morning, so I posted the link here
__________________
- Raid

________________


http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #12
leica M2 fan
Registered User
 
leica M2 fan's Avatar
 
leica M2 fan is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NorCal
Age: 83
Posts: 19,138
I'd like to look into it further. Thanks for the link.
__________________
Good Light and Good Luck (thanks to Edward R Murrow)


TONY
Leica M2 l Nikon D 700 l Sony A7 I

MyGallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #13
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 70
Posts: 5,973
A difficult topic...for sure the Düsseldorf School has been important in the scene of photography as art.

I like the concept behind the Bernd and Hilla Becher work, the subjects, the grey tones, the exact framing so consistent in their pictures. And I like the idea to classify all these subject following Linneo principles when he classified vegetables.

But I do not like the huge size of the prints.

A few years ago I visited an exhibition by Duane Michals who presented it in a very nice and friendly way. He was very open to discuss a lot of things. In the same museum were exhibited a couple of the Bechers pictures and somebody ask him his opinion.

He said that printing and exhibit so large is like shouting when photography should be like whispering. And I fully agree, I like small prints! I do not like to shout, in life and in photography!

And as someone who likes Robert Frank's work I prefer photos with less perfection but more emotion.

Of course this is my personal taste and as Raid already said it's nice that there are different people with different opinions!

robert
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life

my quiet photographer's blog

My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #14
Carey M
Registered User
 
Carey M is offline
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Finland
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuuan View Post
in the German context music of "Kraftwerk" comes to my mind
Well, they did study in Düsseldorf as well
__________________
Analogue at heart.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #15
Canyongazer
Canyongazer
 
Canyongazer's Avatar
 
Canyongazer is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 510
"credit" or "blame?"

Once again, the forge of Post Modernism strikes with the hammer of academia.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-20-2017   #16
PKR
Registered User
 
PKR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyongazer View Post
"credit" or "blame?"

Once again, the forge of Post Modernism strikes with the hammer of academia.
Don't forget to credit gallery owners/auction houses/Art Critics in part for the print size and PR funding. The bigger the print, the bigger the $ for the sale, and a bigger cut for the agent. Do you think Rhine II would be worth $2+M if it was a 20x24" print? Gallery owners, Art Critics and museum curators spend a lot of time socializing.

There must be a marketing course given at the Düsseldorf School?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/16/t...-wegwerth.html

"Clement Greenberg was probably the single most influential art critic in the twentieth century. Although he is most closely associated with his support for Abstract Expressionism, and in particular Jackson Pollock, his views closely shaped the work of many other artists, including Helen Frankenthaler, Morris Louis, and Kenneth Noland. His attention to the formal properties of art - color, line, space and so forth - his rigorous approach to criticism, and his understanding of the development of modern art - although they have all been challenged - have influenced generations of critics and historians."
http://www.theartstory.org/critic-greenberg-clement.htm








x
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #17
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,431
I saw a Struth exhibition at the Haus Der Kunst in Munich two weeks ago and the Dusseldorf School exhibit at the Washington National Gallery a few months ago. The images look amazing on that scale (BIG!), but the photos and subjects are just plain boring. The large format is the only thing "new", and I generally don't like new art movements that are solely based on advancement in technology (in this case large sensors). From an artistic point of view, I find them underwhelming.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #18
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
"Clement Greenberg was probably the single most influential art critic in the twentieth century. Although he is most closely associated with his support for Abstract Expressionism, and in particular Jackson Pollock, his views closely shaped the work of many other artists, including Helen Frankenthaler, Morris Louis, and Kenneth Noland. His attention to the formal properties of art - color, line, space and so forth - his rigorous approach to criticism, and his understanding of the development of modern art - although they have all been challenged - have influenced generations of critics and historians."
http://www.theartstory.org/critic-greenberg-clement.htm
Interesting that you mention Greenberg in this context. I am actually in the postproduction phase for a documentary film about the Washington Color School and the influence Greenberg had on them, with tons of interviews with people who knew Clement Greenberg. He was such a powerful art critic that other people blindly believed and repeated what he said. Reminds me a bit of the fan boys of Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. Greenberg told many stories that promoted his point of view that later turned out to be completely made up, just to further his cause and influence. Nobody had the guts to contract or question him.

In the absence if influential critics like Greenberg, who is giving art new directions and drives the arts market today? Gallery owners, people with deep pockets?
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #19
Crazy Fedya
Registered User
 
Crazy Fedya's Avatar
 
Crazy Fedya is offline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lon Gisland
Posts: 996
I actually happen to like Gursky’s photo of Montparnasse.

Also, Mike D of Beastie Boys recorded a country album, that was pretty good.
__________________
Regards,
Sam.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #20
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,323
I used to be a hater on the Düsseldorf school. Once I saw a collection of large prints, including several by Gursky, I was converted. For me the images are like Color Field paintings, especially for example Rhein II.

I also thoroughly enjoyed Struth's exhibit at the High in Atlanta last year that x-ray mentioned. I spent hours there looking at his industrial images.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #21
michaelwj
----------------
 
michaelwj's Avatar
 
michaelwj is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane AUS
Posts: 2,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
I used to be a hater on the Düsseldorf school. Once I saw a collection of large prints, including several by Gursky, I was converted. For me the images are like Color Field paintings, especially for example Rhein II.

I also thoroughly enjoyed Struth's exhibit at the High in Atlanta last year that x-ray mentioned. I spent hours there looking at his industrial images.
Agreed. The small scale and screen presentation don't do any of it justice. Once you see it in (very) large prints, wow. It takes on a whole different meaning.

And I like rap and country music (some of it anyway). Much the same as I like almost all types of art (some of it anyway).
__________________
Cheers,
Michael
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #22
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
I used to be a hater on the Düsseldorf school. Once I saw a collection of large prints, including several by Gursky, I was converted. For me the images are like Color Field paintings, especially for example Rhein II.

I also thoroughly enjoyed Struth's exhibit at the High in Atlanta last year that x-ray mentioned. I spent hours there looking at his industrial images.
For those of us that work/ worked in industrial environments as photographers Struths work is very ordinary. The only difference is he routines shoots 8x10 and I routinely shot 4x5 but could have just as easily shot 8x10. Many images I personally did went into traveling displays with prints up to 20 feet in length.

Here are a couple of examples of what I shot daily.

Oh yes, the other difference is he has a good PR guy.

I pulled these out of my phone library so they're probably going to be small.

The first and second images are a neutron accelerator and the third is a pilot plant for ethanol production.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg C7990.jpg (45.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg C9992.jpg (37.3 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg C3397.jpg (44.9 KB, 23 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #23
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
A couple more routine industrial shots. This is why I say what he does is nothing out of the ordinary for a commercial / Industrisl photographer.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg C1256.jpg (34.0 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg C9989.jpg (31.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg C8800.jpg (47.6 KB, 18 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #24
michaelwj
----------------
 
michaelwj's Avatar
 
michaelwj is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane AUS
Posts: 2,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post

Oh yes, the other difference is he has a good PR guy.
This is the main difference.
The other difference is he took a big gamble, to try to be a success in the art world which spits out almost everyone and gives them nothing (which is also why art favours the wealthy). In contrast to the more secure world of commercial photography (not to diminish the risks you need to take to be a successful commercial photographer).
__________________
Cheers,
Michael
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #25
PKR
Registered User
 
PKR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,489
In the latest art auction news.. I found this interesting as to selling price:
https://twitter.com/ChristiesInc/sta...63628219666432


The "lost and found" DaVinci selling for $450M is a whole other matter. Many think it's a fake. Christies' clever wording in their PR Dept release, seems to avoid any legal issues if it turns out it is.

I've questioned gallery owners (including mine) about this stuff. The answer is always a variation on the theme: the value of a piece of art = what someone is willing to pay for it.
https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...mundi-painting

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ainting-a-fake

http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/chris...-doubt-it.html

.
__________________
The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera. Dorothea Lange
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #26
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
This is the main difference.
The other difference is he took a big gamble, to try to be a success in the art world which spits out almost everyone and gives them nothing (which is also why art favours the wealthy). In contrast to the more secure world of commercial photography (not to diminish the risks you need to take to be a successful commercial photographer).
There's just as much risk if not more in becoming a success in commercial photography. There's a heck of a lot more investment in a studio and equipment plus staff. Struth has little to no overhead other than a pr person, car and Deardorff with a couple of lenses.

I had the largest studio in my area for thirty plus years. I'm semi retired but evolved into art sales in 7 fine art galleries. I sell x-ray images of florals and other objects which evolved into large commissions for corporations mainly.

There's no comparison between the two as far as risk. The risk of failure is about the same but the commercial industrial risk extends into loss of major capital.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #27
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
When I attended Struths talk in Atlanta he talked about going to the location that he planned to shoot and observing the light and flow of people. He made a big deal about this like it was unique and never done. I'm sorry, in the commercial world we call this scouting the location which many of us routinely do. It routine practice. It struck me as what a load of BS and I had to bite my lip to keep from laughing at him. The guy is completely full of himself. I will give him credit for being good at selling himself.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #28
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,323
x-ray, if the only difference between Struth's and your images are "a good PR guy," does that diminish the work? I don't think so.

I found the images at the High to be very interesting compositionally, the subjects/sites very interesting as someone interested in cutting edge science and physics, and the amazing size impactful.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #29
michaelwj
----------------
 
michaelwj's Avatar
 
michaelwj is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane AUS
Posts: 2,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
There's just as much risk if not more in becoming a success in commercial photography. There's a heck of a lot more investment in a studio and equipment plus staff. Struth has little to no overhead other than a pr person, car and Deardorff with a couple of lenses.

I had the largest studio in my area for thirty plus years. I'm semi retired but evolved into art sales in 7 fine art galleries. I sell x-ray images of florals and other objects which evolved into large commissions for corporations mainly.

There's no comparison between the two as far as risk. The risk of failure is about the same but the commercial industrial risk extends into loss of major capital.
The financial risk is much larger for a working commercial photographer although if the business is set up properly, that risk should be confined to losing your income, not your house. Also, I imagine that you didn't have the large studio on day one, but built it up over time therefore minimising your exposure to risk. In this sense it it just like any small business, likely to fail (I think about 5% of small businesses survive and provide an income for their owners long term).

I suppose when I say risk I mean likelihood of failure. Commercial photography is a business, and you should be able to go into it with you're eyes wide open, and if you work hard and are good at all aspects of it, you're chance of success should be high. Art photography is a different matter entirely, your success is largely defined by your PR.
__________________
Cheers,
Michael
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #30
thompsonks
Registered User
 
thompsonks is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 751
I thought the original article was interesting and well written. I've never read another good explanation of how the Bechers influenced their students, whose work often looks so different from theirs.

I think it's a mistake to pronounce on whether or not you 'like' this sort of work. It exists not to please us or just to make money (as some of the comments imply), but to give us a different kind of visual experience and make us aware of the difference between what we expect a photograph to look like, and what we now see.

If Struh and Close make oversized portraits, they're not particularly trying to get you to like or buy 'em - they're exloring their and your experience of this sort of giantism. If Gursky photographs every detail of a supermarket or a Chinese factory and gets you to look into every square foot or even inch of it, he's exploring, and getting you-the-viewer to explore, something never seen nor photographed on such a scale. Making and seeing such images is more of a 'happening' than an emotional expression or a sales ploy.

While I don't happen to think Montparnasse is Gursky's most interesting photograph, it's a good example of this sort of photography as a large-scale mind-game. IMO you can enjoy this visual game as either artist or viewer, or you can ignore it. But the rewards aren't just Likes and $ - they're imaginative inquiries into what and how we see. And as the article explains, the Bechers' grids were an important model for that kind of photography.

Kirk
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #31
farlymac
PF McFarland
 
farlymac's Avatar
 
farlymac is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 6,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
A couple more routine industrial shots. This is why I say what he does is nothing out of the ordinary for a commercial / Industrisl photographer.
That was one of my dreams, to be an industrial photographer. I like that shot from inside the plutonium processing room.

PF
__________________
Waiting for the light
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-17-2017   #32
Chris101
summicronia
 
Chris101's Avatar
 
Chris101 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,374
Gursky's great. I'd recognize his style anywhere. I see little that connects the other photographers in the article though. Just where they came from. But photographically, they are very different, in content, style and theme.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2017   #33
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by farlymac View Post
That was one of my dreams, to be an industrial photographer. I like that shot from inside the plutonium processing room.

PF
The shot you reference was in a brand new hot cell at Oak Ridge National lab. Extremely high level radioactive materials are now handled in there. The walls ar three feet thick high density concrete and the windows are many layers of lead glass with mineral oil between them. The refractive index is so high that you can see almost into the corner when looking at an extreme angle. Some of these windows create an almost fisheye effect.

The first two shots are the spallarion neutron source at ORNL and the third is an ethanol pilot plant for DuPont.

Some industrial work is extremely dangerous. I've had to cling 400 ft cooling towers and haul equipment to the top, work in areas of extremely high voltage (500,000v) where you can hear the static electricity on the power equipment cracking above your head and feeling it to being exposed to plutonium and beryllium dust. It's really interesting work but can be extremely dangerous.

The next set is Eastman Chemical, ORNL and Tennessee Valley Authority. The TVA shot of the workers was the tube menders at Cumberland steam plant. I posed them between two of the largest boilers in the world. Both boilers are twelve stories high. Conditions can be very poor for this kind of work. I had to light the scene with 15,000ws of Speedotron strobes and had one hour from arrival to completion of the shot and I'd never been at the site before.

Honestly I think Struth is scamming art critics and wealthy patrons. There's nothing special about what he does that any other industrial photographer couldn't do or hasn't done.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2017   #34
Corran
Registered User
 
Corran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
Honestly I think Struth is scamming art critics and wealthy patrons. There's nothing special about what he does that any other industrial photographer couldn't do or hasn't done.
That's quite a statement and I think it does a disservice to him, and you. How many times has a photographer said "well, I could have shot that!" Sure, okay, perhaps you could've taken those photos. But you didn't, and he did. And through whatever mechanisms, like PR and marketing etc., it was hanging up in the High Museum for people like me to see, who have not been inside the Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor and whatever else.

As someone who is focusing on landscape, I could say the same thing about any number of landscape photographers who are having more success at marketing their images. And people have told me "well I could have shot that if I was there." And sure, maybe that's true. But they didn't. Every photographer also puts their indelible mark on their photos at a given location, and while the conversation as it relates to PR, marketing, and who "makes it" is a good one, I think these kind of "I could have done that" statements are not helpful to anyone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2017   #35
Dogman
Registered User
 
Dogman is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,524
As someone who grew up listening to rhythm and blues, gospel and country music, I feel today's rap and today's country are just evolutions of a style--most of it not necessarily to my liking but with recognizable roots.

The "Dusseldorf School" is just an evolution of the "Modernism" shown by Walker Evans (and others) whose work was just an evolution of Eugene Atget's. Somewhere in there you could throw in New Topographics photographers like Lewis Baltz. It's all interesting. Whether one likes it or not is based in individual tastes.

(It's nice that we occasionally talk about photography.)
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2017   #36
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran View Post
That's quite a statement and I think it does a disservice to him, and you.
.

Let's not make this personal. We both have the same right to our opinions.

I'll take my statement one step further. My observation at the opening was many of the wealthy elderly patrons drew questionable looks as they viewed the images. It appeared in some cases, I was listening and watching, that they felt they must like the images because the director of MOMA told them they should.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2017   #37
ptpdprinter
Registered User
 
ptpdprinter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
...they felt they must like the images because the director of MOMA told them they should.
Often this is the crux of it.
__________________
ambientlightcollection.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2017   #38
Saul
fighting inertia
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Saul is offline
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
Don't forget to credit gallery owners/auction houses/Art Critics in part for the print size and PR funding. The bigger the print, the bigger the $ for the sale, and a bigger cut for the agent. Do you think Rhine II would be worth $2+M if it was a 20x24" print? Gallery owners, Art Critics and museum curators spend a lot of time socializing.

There must be a marketing course given at the Düsseldorf School?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/16/t...-wegwerth.html

"Clement Greenberg was probably the single most influential art critic in the twentieth century. Although he is most closely associated with his support for Abstract Expressionism, and in particular Jackson Pollock, his views closely shaped the work of many other artists, including Helen Frankenthaler, Morris Louis, and Kenneth Noland. His attention to the formal properties of art - color, line, space and so forth - his rigorous approach to criticism, and his understanding of the development of modern art - although they have all been challenged - have influenced generations of critics and historians."
http://www.theartstory.org/critic-greenberg-clement.htm
x


This is a critical point, mostly ignored because it's a seamless aspect of the art world. As in politics, money is what invigorates that level of commercial work.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2017   #39
x-ray
Registered User
 
x-ray's Avatar
 
x-ray is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Age: 71
Posts: 4,625
Don't get me wrong, I love some industrial shots and love shooting industrial in most cases. What I'm saying Struth wasn't a pioneer in the field and certainly wasn't the first to photograph these subjects. If you were to go through the photo archive for each of these facilities you'd find multiple images of these devices done by a staff photographer or freelancer.

I worked as a photographer for the department of energy in the mid 70's. It was routine to document any new system or device through construction and after completion. The researchers called us down to document experiments that were running for reports and grant proposals. I was assigned to Oak Rridge National Lab and loaned to the Y-12 facility frequently. I and the staff on a daily basis photographed cyclotrons, linear accelerators, nuclear reactors, plasma fusion reactors and pretty much the highest tech precision devices in the world. We all had Q security clearances and much of what we shot was highly classified.

My point is Struth didn't do anything that hadn't already been done over and over. He didn't do the shots any better than the guys that made them first. He didn't even print them bigger. We often did very large prints for displays. He just had the right contacts and a good PR guy and caught the attention of someone trying to create a new star.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2017   #40
Saul
fighting inertia
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Saul is offline
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
A couple more routine industrial shots. This is why I say what he does is nothing out of the ordinary for a commercial / Industrisl photographer.
You're entitled to it, but that's a gross under interpretation of Gursky.
Have you stood in front of any of his work?
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 15:11.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.