Smallest camera with hotshoe and aperture priority
Old 04-09-2017   #1
paniolo
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Smallest camera with hotshoe and aperture priority

Any recommendations?
Minox 35 and copies came in my mind but all of these have the restriction that if you attach something else than a flash to the hotshoe the camera is shooting in flash synch only. (~1/125)

I want to add an optical viewfinder, it should have aperture priority or full automatic and minimal shutter lag.

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PS: Of course there is the Minolta CLE, Bessa's, Leica M7 and co, but they are all "too big" and expensive.
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Old 04-09-2017   #2
nukecoke
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Yashica Electro 35 MC. Smallest of the E35 family and IMO a hidden gem.

It has a shoe but not hot. For flash it uses PC sync socket.

One of the features I like on this camera is that it has the distance guide inside viewfinder(head-group-mountain icons). That's what I miss from Rollei 35SE.
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Old 04-09-2017   #3
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Contax T3?
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Old 04-09-2017   #4
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Well the Contax T3 and all other Autofocus cameras suffer from terrible shutter lag I realy dont like. ;-)

and thank you nukecoke.
The MC looks indeed good. What about the viewfinder? Is there any blockage from the lens? Any colour tint or just a simple finder with 1:1 brightness and around 0,5x magnification?

I am a big fan of the Olympus 35RC but always wanted an AE mode + colour neutral finder. The 35MC seems to fit the bill.

Is there any fixed speed btw? Like 1/30? I'm scary its always setting unholdable exposure times in dim light.

THANK YOU!
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Old 04-09-2017   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paniolo View Post
Well the Contax T3 and all other Autofocus cameras suffer from terrible shutter lag I realy dont like. ;-)

and thank you nukecoke.
The MC looks indeed good. What about the viewfinder? Is there any blockage from the lens? Any colour tint or just a simple finder with 1:1 brightness and around 0,5x magnification?

I am a big fan of the Olympus 35RC but always wanted an AE mode + colour neutral finder. The 35MC seems to fit the bill.

Is there any fixed speed btw? Like 1/30? I'm scary its always setting unholdable exposure times in dim light.

THANK YOU!
There is a little blockage from the lens. (I've never noticed it before.)

Finder mag. is x0.6 -ish, I compared it with Zorki-1 (x0.5) and Bessa-R (x0.7). The frameline is reflected, there is no obvious tint.

There is no fixed speed unless you shoot without battery, which is 1/500s.

The flash sync speed is 1/30s, same as most E35 cameras. It's automatically chosen when a flash is plugged in. You can't cheat to get 1/30s by just plugging the PC cable in, the camera detects if there is closed circuit (so technically you can cheat to get it, but lots of work.)

Hope it helps!

Taken with 35MC:


And one with dim light!
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Old 04-09-2017   #6
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Thanks for the suggestion N.C. I once owned a regular Yashica Electro rangefinder camera, and that thing was huge. Had never heard of the 35 MC, so I duck duck goe'd it. Tiny indeed, and unlike the Rollei little cameras, it is designed w/ a human in mind :] Putting the winder and flash on the bottom defies common sense.

There's also the Konica C-35, along w/ about a million clones that different camera makers put out based on it's design. I once owned a Minox. It worked exactly one day before something came loose w/ the aperture, the electrics went South, and I was fortunate enough to return it and get my money back.
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Old 04-09-2017   #7
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nukecoke! Thank you so much. You made my day and I have ordered one to see if it fits my needs.
I'm mainly shooting with around 800 ASA, so a 1/30s and 2.8 would be great even at dim light. Can you explain me how to cheat the flash plug to let the camera think it's a closed circuit?
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Old 04-09-2017   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paniolo View Post
nukecoke! Thank you so much. You made my day and I have ordered one to see if it fits my needs.
I'm mainly shooting with around 800 ASA, so a 1/30s and 2.8 would be great even at dim light. Can you explain me how to cheat the flash plug to let the camera think it's a closed circuit?
You are welcome!

I don't know how to do the cheat though...it's just my theory.

My Electro 35 MC, CC, and FC all under-expose for 1 stop, but it can be easily compensated when setting the ISO. You may want to play around and compare the shutter speed with a reliable camera when you get your MC to see if it's the same case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
Thanks for the suggestion N.C. I once owned a regular Yashica Electro rangefinder camera, and that thing was huge. Had never heard of the 35 MC, so I duck duck goe'd it. Tiny indeed, and unlike the Rollei little cameras, it is designed w/ a human in mind :] Putting the winder and flash on the bottom defies common sense.
You are welcome.

Well, I can live with the upside-down hot shoe and re-winder on Rollei 35, but I really dislike the tiny focus ring (I have small hands already), it is almost a deal breaker for me. I also wish there is a distance guide inside the Rollei finder, like the MC did. But it seems that Rollei wants you pre-focus before you move your eye to the finder. The MC is quicker to shoot for sure.
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Old 04-09-2017   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paniolo View Post
Well the Contax T3 and all other Autofocus cameras suffer from terrible shutter lag I realy dont like. ;-)

... THANK YOU!
You don't have to use AF on the Contact T3. You can set the distance, and in my experience, there is then no shutter lag.
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Old 04-09-2017   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevres_babylone View Post
You don't have to use AF on the Contact T3. You can set the distance, and in my experience, there is then no shutter lag.
holy shirt, realy?
can somebody confirm this?
I just handled some "lesser" AF compacts, even ones with manual focus like the Leica CM, and they all had noticable shutter lag when prefocussed manual.
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Old 04-09-2017   #11
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Maybe not the smallest but the best buy and the easiest to use, and with full manual. Plus, you get to change lenses: it is the Bessa R2a. (and the Bessa R3a)

If you mean auto focus then these are out.
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Old 04-09-2017   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paniolo View Post
Any recommendations?
Minox 35 and copies came in my mind but all of these have the restriction that if you attach something else than a flash to the hotshoe the camera is shooting in flash synch only. (~1/125)

I want to add an optical viewfinder, it should have aperture priority or full automatic and minimal shutter lag.
The Minox goes to 1/125 because of a micro switch in the hot shoe. You just need to remove the front left tip of an accessory to prevent the switch from being pressed. The amount of material to remove is minimal and doesn't prevent the accessory from being used on a different camera. I've used this method to mount a flash on a 35-GT when I needed slow sync.
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Old 04-09-2017   #13
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what about this one?

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Old 04-09-2017   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paniolo View Post
holy shirt, realy?
can somebody confirm this?
I just handled some "lesser" AF compacts, even ones with manual focus like the Leica CM, and they all had noticable shutter lag when prefocussed manual.
I don't have a T3 any more, from memory prefocusing locks the lens to the desired distance, so the camera shoots pretty much instantly (but there's some lag between pressing shutter release and actual taking). The CM/Minilux by comparison returns the lens to infinity after each shot, so that the lens has to travel again to preset focus/distance every time you shoot. However the AF is blazing fast compared to the T3.

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Old 04-09-2017   #15
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Old 04-10-2017   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valdas View Post
what about this one?

This one is as innovative as Rollei 35, but designed by and for human beings

Wanted to snatch one but it is quite rare and can be expensive these days.
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Old 04-10-2017   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukecoke View Post
This one is as innovative as Rollei 35, but designed by and for human beings

Wanted to snatch one but it is quite rare and can be expensive these days.

Yes, I was probably lucky to find one for 20 EUR - with shutter blades stuck. Cleaning was another 20 EUR, so all in all I guess that was a fair deal for this little gem...
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Old 04-10-2017   #18
Ko.Fe.
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I have Oly 35 Trip. Small, metal, no batteries, but auto and normal hotshoe.

With flash, f8 and ISO400 film.

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Old 04-10-2017   #19
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I'm not 100% sure I understand OPs question, but if you would like to attach an optical finder to the camera's hot shoe without triggering the camera to go to flash mode, just use a bit of clear tape to mask off the electrical connection. The camera won't know anything is attached to the shoe and give full shutter speeds.
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Old 04-10-2017   #20
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Old 04-10-2017   #21
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Old 04-10-2017   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I have Oly 35 Trip. Small, metal, no batteries, but auto and normal hotshoe.

With flash, f8 and ISO400 film.

The Trip is awesome! I was blown away from what I've got from that little thing!
Trip 35 + flash is super!
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Old 04-10-2017   #23
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Any love for the tiny Minolta Hi-Matic F?

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Old 04-10-2017   #24
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Olympus XA....RF, electronic shutter, AE, flash, OVF.....
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Old 04-10-2017   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paniolo View Post
Any recommendations?
Minox 35 and copies came in my mind but all of these have the restriction that if you attach something else than a flash to the hotshoe the camera is shooting in flash synch only. (~1/125)

I want to add an optical viewfinder, it should have aperture priority or full automatic and minimal shutter lag.
...
I'm just curious: Why do you want to add an optical finder to a Minox 35? They all have very good 35mm optical finders built in.
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Old 04-10-2017   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
... Tiny indeed, and unlike the Rollei little cameras, it is designed w/ a human in mind :] Putting the winder and flash on the bottom defies common sense. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukecoke View Post
...
Well, I can live with the upside-down hot shoe and re-winder on Rollei 35, but I really dislike the tiny focus ring (I have small hands already), it is almost a deal breaker for me. I also wish there is a distance guide inside the Rollei finder, like the MC did. But it seems that Rollei wants you pre-focus before you move your eye to the finder. ...
The original Rollei 35 was designed with a specific kind of human factors in mind: it was conceived around the notion of setting up the exposure and focus while looking down at the camera from the top before lifting it to your eye. That's why all the settings and the metering readout are large and extremely visible looking down from above. The notion is that with a scale focus camera, you set up focus using the distance scale and the DoF markings (they're highlighted to show the most commonly used settings. This was how the 35, 35S and 35T all worked, and they are wonderful.

The SE the TE models produced later on adopted a less useful configuration with through the viewfinder metering indication using LEDs. I always found them to be much more awkward and slower in use, but they were appealing to the meme of the mid-1970s in trying to nearer "full information viewfinder" like an SLR of that time. It never worked for me.

Fitting the large rewind crank on the bottom made sense given the limited space to put it elsewhere on such a small camera. Fitting the hotshoe on the bottom made it awkward, especially with the Rollei flash unit, but with some other small flash units it was actually very handy to shoot flash with verticals since it rotated the camera just right and put the flash above and left of the lens so that shadows worked the right way. With the Rollei 35 Classic series in the late 80s/90s, they reinforced the top deck of the body and re-located the flash shoe to the top. This made it easy to shoot landscape oriented with flash but made it awkward to shoot verticals—insufficient space to grab the camera properly when it was rotated. I kinda preferred my S over my Classic Platinum for this reason when I was using the flash.

Still have the black Rollei 35S that I traveled all over the world with in the '90s. It's more a keepsake now than a working camera, but it's still in perfect condition.

G
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Old 04-10-2017   #27
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It's off topic but I once had a Petri Color 35 and genuinely hated it. No focusing on the go as you've got no idea where you're focusing at - all distance marks are crammed into the viewfinder and none left on the barrel. And that focusing wheel - what a pain to operate with, as you are constantly searching for that invisible locking position where Infinity is supposed to be (those who actually used one would know what I'm talking about).

I much, much prefer the Rollei 35, with which the lens locks into position without endless fiddling with a wobbly wheel, and you could do proper scale focusing at waist level. What a relief!
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Old 04-10-2017   #28
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As for the OP's request, if the Minox 35 doesn't cut it, why not look into one of its (usually improved) copies? The Ricoh FF-1(s), Cosina CX-2 and (the rather uncommon) Vivitar 35EM are fine candidates. The Ricoh and Cosina are program AE, the Vivitar aperture priority. All come with hot shoes.

Especially the Vivitar, which has a rebadged sibling called Revue 35 Compact Electronic. It is small! No larger in volume than a Rollei 35.
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