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120 / 220 film RF's 120 / 220 format rangefinders including Fuji, Koni-Omega, Mamiya Press, Linhof 6x7/6x9 cameras, Mamiya 6/7 among others, but excluding the 120 folders and the Voigtlander 667 cameras that have their own forums.

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Plaubel 67, Rollei 2.8f...Fuji GF670 ...
Old 05-23-2016   #1
gannjunior
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Plaubel 67, Rollei 2.8f...Fuji GF670 ...

The photography is an exercise in observation and the result is often a stroke of luck... (Isabelle Allende, "Portrait in Sepia")

Hi guys...nostalgia of films...

I'd like an MF camera dedicated for my portraits... Looking for something of dreamy...(some of my favourite lens in 35mm are voigtlander 40 1.4, canon 50 1.2, canon 85 1.2, summicron 90 f2...)...

Shrinked my research to Rollei 75 28f (and the charm of its "viewfinder"..) and Plaubel Makina 67 (or 670) 80 2.8.
But I'm feeling more oriented for the Plaubel. 'Cause I want to be sure to get something I can bring with me "everywhere".
I just decided to include in possible choices Fuji GF670 80 f3.5, 'cause is the more recent one (very similar camera approch to the Plaubel) and I expect it will be easy to keep it in good condition.
(even if I knew till 2011, for sure, Plaubel assistance were currently working).

For now I'd found the Rollei (with Xenotar 2.8) working and very good condition at 800eur. (seller is ex photographer, used for job).The GF670 for 1300eur (seller is the first owner) like new one, and a plaubel 670 in very good condition at 1500 eur... (even if the seller is not able to verify if everything is perfectly working...).

For the film scan I have an Epson V800.

Found this
http://www.raylarose.com/2015/12/rol...x-2-8e-review/

I would be oriented for the Plaubel but I'd like to know your feedback, your suggests and if the GF670-Bessa could be a good alternative...

Thanks,
Ciao

Lorenzo
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Old 05-23-2016   #2
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If you're after dreamy, I don't think a plaubel or the fuji are your best choices; they are so sharp that you can cut your eyeballs looking at prints from them. Rollei's are lovely for portraits, especially with a rolleinar. Sharp enough, but not too sharp, and the slightly lower contrast gives you quite subtle colours/lots of midtones in black and white.
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Old 05-23-2016   #3
FrankS
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If you're into dreamy, think Rolleicord with Triotar lens.
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Old 05-23-2016   #4
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If you haven't used a TLR, be careful before committing to one. It's a different way of shooting. I love it but it doesn't click for some people. Any way to do a test run with a TLR? Even buying a Rolleicord or YashicaMat would give you enough experience on the basic TLR style of shooting.

Putting a prism on an F is an option, but it makes things bulky and top-heavy.
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Old 05-23-2016   #5
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Interesting review, I had not seen that one, thanks for the link!

As I recall when researching between the two, the GF670 requires a battery to function whereas the Plaubel does not. (The Plaubel has a battery but it's only to power the meter which you can choose to activate.)

However the GF670 can also shoot 6x6 vs the Plaubel does not have this ability.

Never got into chimneys so can't speak to the Rollei.
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Old 05-23-2016   #6
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I have the GF670 and the GF670w, I've slowly started using the GF670 for more portraits and so forth, actually going to start using it for weddings.

The battery issue is big, though, my gf670 has a short or something, it destroys batteries, I have so many ready replacements, there is a 2pack of batteries in every single back I could possibly use, in my globebox, everywhere. I've been out, and it died, and the camera is completely useless. Let me see if I can find some portraits.
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Old 05-23-2016   #7
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I sort of had / have all three in a ways: Rolleiflex 2.8D, Plaubel Makina 670, and Fuji GF670.

The Fujifilm EBC lens has a very modern look - it's super sharp across the board, and contrast has bite. It's solid but may be too sharp for portraits. Despite the 3.5 aperture it focuses closer than the Plaubel or the Rollei (without the Rolleinar 1) - down to 0.7m vs. 1m. The Plaubel lens is just as sharp but has more pleasing (in my eyes) bokeh and softer transitions. The Rolleiflex 2.8D I had (Xenotar) had slightly more dreamy bokeh (very slight swirl effect in the circular highlights in the background) and with the Rolleinar, is probably the best for portraits.

I think the Rolleiflex Planar 3.5F I've also used version is a little more modern / contrasty than the older 2.8C / D, but I don't have a direct comparison (everyone says they are virtually the same between the Xenotar and the Planar), but still less bite than the GF670.

The Rolleiflex T and Rolleicord's Tessar and the Yashicamat 124G (also a Tessar design) I would imagine as being a bit more classic background rendering, though I can't speak from personal experience either, just hearsay.

Those are just my 2c.

EDIT: oops the GF670 focuses down to 0.9m, the wide focuses to 0.7 (got them mixed!).
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Last edited by taomei : 05-24-2016 at 02:18. Reason: Correcting minimum focus distance
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Old 05-23-2016   #8
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I would go with the rollei. I love the Plaubel - I actually shot the one Ray reviewed in the link. But it is quite expensive to fix if it breaks and the GF670 is surprisingly difficult to get serviced as well. Fuji won't touch them. Rollei is a beast of a portrait machine.
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Old 05-25-2016   #9
gannjunior
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Thank you very much all guys for your feedback :-)
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Old 05-25-2016   #10
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You can also do something a little more complicated, but let's make a small step back.
For portraiture, what you want is to be able to see the subject well and focus accurately in any part of the frame, so RF cameras are not ideal. A Rolleiflex is nice, but with the prism starts being quite a chunk of metal to lug around, and it has issues linked to parallax, which you cannot completely eliminate.
The best camera for your "dreamy" stuff would actually be a P67II with the 105/2.4 or 165/2.8, but it is big and heavy.
If you would prefer something smaller, and that would not break your wallet, there are 2 interesting options in 6x4.5 size: Pentax 645N or Mamiya 645 AFD. Mamiya has an 80/1.9 lens, and while some say the bokeh is not so great, this camera has the advantage of the shortest flange to focal plane distance in MF, so you can adapt virtually any MF lens to it from any other manufacturer, including Hassy, Pentax 67 and Bronica 67 lenses. The P645N is less advanced but probably more reliable, and with a Pentax adapter you can use P67 lenses on it ( you do not lose automatic diaphragm nor AE in this case) , as well as Hassy lenses with a third party adapter.
Now comes the best part. There is a guy in Poland, that would adapt some fast lenses both to Mamiya 645 AFD and P645. The most popular lens is Contax Planar 80/2, but I have for example adapted the Leica Summicron M 90/2 ! Take a look here :
https://www.facebook.com/PalecwnosieBokehFactory/
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Old 05-25-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Daniel View Post
If you haven't used a TLR, be careful before committing to one. It's a different way of shooting. I love it but it doesn't click for some people. Any way to do a test run with a TLR? Even buying a Rolleicord or YashicaMat would give you enough experience on the basic TLR style of shooting.

Putting a prism on an F is an option, but it makes things bulky and top-heavy.
Dear Dan,

You are absolutely right that "it doesn't click for some people". I'm one of them. I hate the bloody things. I am almost certainly in a minority but it may be a bigger minority than TLR devotees believe.

In MF I have SLRs (Kowa and Pentacon 6), RF (Polaroid 600SE with 6x9 back, Graflex XL) and scale focus (Alpa, various folders), as well as a 'baby' Linhof, and I like them ALL better than any TLR I have ever owned.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-26-2016   #12
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Seconding Mamiya 645 + 80/1.9

Wow Marek .. thanks for that link! that guy is awesome (and has too much money - LOL) He optically modified an 90mm Cron-M for MF ? whaaaaaa??
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Old 05-26-2016   #13
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This thread is relevant to my interests as I have a Rolleiflex 3.5F(And a Pentax 67ii), and have been debating between replacing my Mamiya 7 with either the Fuji or the Plaubel. I should note that I primarily focus on portrait photography. The Mamiya 7 is a great camera that has lenses with obscene resolution but I can't get on with the way the lenses draw. The 80mm is wonderfully sharp and has plenty of bite but the rendering is a little clinical for my taste. There are plenty of members here who use the M7 with great results but I never quite got on with it. Both the Rolleiflex and the 105/2.4 lens for the Pentax 67 have a really amazing look to them, especially for portraits. Of all the images I've looked at between the Fuji and the Plaubel the Fuji seems to have a more flat and modern look to it. The Plabuel on the other hand really has quite a bit of character and out of focus transitions are to die for but it might have a little too much contrast on the in focus areas to really be dreamy in my opinion. Beautiful most certainly but maybe a touch to sharp for dreamy. DK Image, a member here has some really really gorgeous shots taken with the Plaubel if you need to see any more example photos. I'd say if you can get on with that "charm" of the Rollei viewfinder to go for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mfogiel View Post
You can also do something a little more complicated, but let's make a small step back.
For portraiture, what you want is to be able to see the subject well and focus accurately in any part of the frame, so RF cameras are not ideal. A Rolleiflex is nice, but with the prism starts being quite a chunk of metal to lug around, and it has issues linked to parallax, which you cannot completely eliminate.
The best camera for your "dreamy" stuff would actually be a P67II with the 105/2.4 or 165/2.8, but it is big and heavy.
If you would prefer something smaller, and that would not break your wallet, there are 2 interesting options in 6x4.5 size: Pentax 645N or Mamiya 645 AFD. Mamiya has an 80/1.9 lens, and while some say the bokeh is not so great, this camera has the advantage of the shortest flange to focal plane distance in MF, so you can adapt virtually any MF lens to it from any other manufacturer, including Hassy, Pentax 67 and Bronica 67 lenses. The P645N is less advanced but probably more reliable, and with a Pentax adapter you can use P67 lenses on it ( you do not lose automatic diaphragm nor AE in this case) , as well as Hassy lenses with a third party adapter.
Now comes the best part. There is a guy in Poland, that would adapt some fast lenses both to Mamiya 645 AFD and P645. The most popular lens is Contax Planar 80/2, but I have for example adapted the Leica Summicron M 90/2 ! Take a look here :
https://www.facebook.com/PalecwnosieBokehFactory/
I completely agree on the Pentax comments, really a wonderful(though heavy) camera. Also, I would like to add for anyone curious about that Polish lens magician - I actually have ordered from The Bokeh Factory and it worked out wonderfully. I ordered a Schneider Cinelux 110/2 for my P6ii and it's such a unique and beautiful lens, VERY dreamy yet quite sharp rendering. Great communication throughout the whole process and an amazing lens to boot.
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Old 05-26-2016   #14
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Guys keep in mind for my idea of "portrait", in MF, 80 is my "limit" focal since in 6x7 is around 40mm...
for me the 35mm in 35mm system is the "best" for portrait and environmented portrait since I can dialogue, I can speak, I can interact with subject...In the other case I am too "far" from the subject to "enter" in contact with her/him...
also need something of portable and that is not too much big since the portraited person in front of me can let be hair down with my gear.

PS gave up for a plaubel 67, will arrive tomorrow...and in the meanwhile just bought some films...just arrived ! :-)))
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File Type: jpg IMG-20160525-WA0003.jpg (21.3 KB, 7 views)
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Old 05-26-2016   #15
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now you've got me checking on Plaubel prices.
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Old 05-26-2016   #16
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In case your Plaubed does not work out, Here's a shot with the P645N and 55/2.8 ( roughly 35mm equivalent ) wide open:
MF20144105 by marek fogiel, on Flickr

And here one with the P67II and 75/2.8 AL, same FOW:

MF20122605 by marek fogiel, on Flickr
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Old 05-26-2016   #17
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oh great Mark
in particular the 2nd shot (film and develope?) shows MF has that extra oomph in the quality (not the quantity) of DOF....to be seen printed.

I'm looking forward my plaubel arrives !!!

EDIT just seen now the tag of the film and develope in flickr
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Old 05-26-2016   #18
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I owned a 2.8E and GF670 and I absolutely loved the later and would like to own one again one day as it's so versatile (can shoot 6x6 and 6x7) and very compact when folded.
I've used both for portraits and both works well, just different style of shooting.

I considered the Makina 6x7 in the past, however the reducing service and replacement parts available kinda turned me off it.

If you don't want a sharp lens, have you considered also a Yashica 124-G?
I actually sold all my MF cameras and only kept the 124-G.
Also, if you want RF style, there's always the Mamiya 6 or 7 and old Fuji 645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8 and 6x9


Here's some shots taken with the the 2.8E, GF670 and 124-G
Rolleiflex 2.8E
rollei065 by Earl Dieta, on Flickr

Yashica 124-G
124G-HP5800 by Earl Dieta, on Flickr

Fuji GF670
gf670102 by Earl Dieta, on Flickr
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Old 05-26-2016   #19
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Hi Taemo, maybe is because of the specific shot, but I prefer the fist one, with Rollei
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Old 06-01-2016   #20
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Oh guys!!! It arrived !!! What a wonderful !!! Now I'm on the train ...just "studying" it... ))



Inviato dal mio LG-H850 utilizzando Tapatalk
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Old 06-13-2016   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gannjunior View Post
Oh guys!!! It arrived !!! What a wonderful !!! Now I'm on the train ...just "studying" it... ))
I think you made a great choice. I have used my Plaubel Makina 670 since 2010. You can see many of my shots taken with that wonderful camera here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/drtebi/tags/makina670/

If you have a flickr account, consider joining the Plaubel Makina group.

Should you have a problem with the camera, Plaubel in Frankfurt (Germany) still repairs these cameras. I have had mine sent there once, and the repair cost was reasonable.

Enjoy your Plaubel Makina,
DrTebi
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Old 07-06-2016   #22
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Shot with GH670 on Ilford Xp2

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