50mm Summicron Dual Range ?'s
Old 04-11-2016   #1
JOCO34
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50mm Summicron Dual Range ?'s

Hello everyone, I've got some questions. I have a 50mm f2 DR lens that is in great shape and I want to use it on my new M240. It was my go to 50mm on my M2 and I really like using it. I just sent it off to DAG Cameras for a CLA and to have the rear helicals reduced in size so to fit the M240 internal geometry.

Here are my questions;

1) Will the lens focus with the rangefinder or do I need to use Live View or the EV finder?

2) Will the modified lens still work with my M2?

3) With the rear helicals reduced will the lens still be dual range or just like a normal 50mm lens?

4) Since the lens was not in collectable condtion anyway how much have I ruined and future value of the lens (not that I will ever sell it)?

OK have at me!!
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Old 04-11-2016   #2
ferider
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For all practical purposes it will function like a 50mm rigid.

A pity to modify it really. You could just buy a rigid instead (one of my favorite 240 lenses).

Roland.
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Old 04-11-2016   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider View Post
For all practical purposes it will function like a 50mm rigid.

A pity to modify it really. You could just buy a rigid instead (one of my favorite 240 lenses).

Roland.
I debated not modifing it but it is not really a collector lens and the mod is internal plus I really will not sell this lens as it was my first lens on my first Leica, an M2 which I bought new. Both the M2 and the 50mm have seen lots of use, careful use but still it's not a shelf queen. Having it function on a modern digital Leica just makes me feel connected to my past. BTW I also have a Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f1.5 ZM but while it has a simiar 1930-40's look it's just not the same.
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Old 04-11-2016   #4
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It's your lens, no need to justify

It will do really well on the 240, you'll see.
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Old 04-11-2016   #5
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Loved my DR on an M3 - if it gets good use on another M, all is good.
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Old 04-12-2016   #6
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Thanks all for the comments. The lens is off to DAG for the work and when it returns I will do a review and let you know how it turned out.
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Old 04-12-2016   #7
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I was going to recommend to sell or trade it for a rigid summicron

You wont have to spend money. In fact you may even earn a bit from the trade
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Old 04-12-2016   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucs View Post
I was going to recommend to sell or trade it for a rigid summicron

You wont have to spend money. In fact you may even earn a bit from the trade
I did think of that but since I already have a great 50 in the Zeiss Sonnar 50 f1.5 I really did not want another 50mm just to have another lens. This lens was my first Leica lens and I just love the old film look it produces. Keeping old Leica equipment going and producing good photographs is kind of important to me.
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Old 04-12-2016   #9
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You lose the close range. I use my DR unmodified on digital Leicas, including in the near normal range, the latter with great discipline so as not grind a shelf out of the interior of the camera.
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Old 04-12-2016   #10
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Richard: why don't you write up a report on how you use the DR unmodified on digital M cameras.

JOCO: Good luck with your modified DR on the M 240.
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Old 04-13-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
You lose the close range. I use my DR unmodified on digital Leicas, including in the near normal range, the latter with great discipline so as not grind a shelf out of the interior of the camera.
I have no discipline, just get too excited shooting. When you say I lose the close range does that mean the lens will not focus or the internal rangefinder can't focus? Could I use live view to focus?
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Old 04-13-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOCO34 View Post
I did think of that but since I already have a great 50 in the Zeiss Sonnar 50 f1.5 I really did not want another 50mm just to have another lens. This lens was my first Leica lens and I just love the old film look it produces. Keeping old Leica equipment going and producing good photographs is kind of important to me.
a bit contradicting .. "keeping it going" by removing an essential functionality ?
A rigid is exactly the same lens (same look etc.) swapping yours for the rigid (thus being able to use it on the M240) is making you money while sending it to DAG costs you. The rigid would get you the exact same "old film look". Actually what you do is you make a rigid out of a DR with worse ergonomics (focus and aperture are closer together on the DR making space for the goggles).
If you love the lens so much why are you damaging it?
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Old 04-13-2016   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOCO34 View Post
I have no discipline, just get too excited shooting. When you say I lose the close range does that mean the lens will not focus or the internal rangefinder can't focus? Could I use live view to focus?
With the shimming of the focussing coupler, only close focus using rangefinder is affected.
If well executed, as mine, rangefinder can be used with my M 262 in close range from just under 70cm to 48cm.
Only not RF coupling from 90cm to 70cm.

You could use the LV in the close range as before.

I have also the Rigid but prefer the DR in use (I have one DR not modified and one DR modified for digital M ).

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Arnaud
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Old 04-13-2016   #14
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Quote:
If you love the lens so much why are you damaging it?
Well you always hurt the one you love!

First off I'm not a collector but a photographer. Second it's about the image not the shiney bits. For me the lens is now functional as opposed to Leica Industrial Sculpture. If the lens was like new with box and caps I may have not modified it but it's been used by me since I bought it new in the last century.
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Old 04-14-2016   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOCO34 View Post
I have no discipline, just get too excited shooting. When you say I lose the close range does that mean the lens will not focus or the internal rangefinder can't focus? Could I use live view to focus?
Yes, it will focus but not with RF coupling, so live view would work. I'm afraid I know very little about that and don't know how practical it would be.
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Old 04-14-2016   #16
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How would a modified DR's close-up features work on the M9 which does not have LV? It won't work. Right?
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Old 04-14-2016   #17
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I'm not sure I fully understand what is being discussed here: I have a DR that I use on my Sony A7ii in both normal and macro mode. It hasn't been modified in any way.

I mount it on the VME Close Focus adaptor to give even more close focus ability.

I've not seen the need to modify the lens in any way, so can someone please explain why a modification is needed for it to work on the M240?
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Old 04-14-2016   #18
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Austerby,

Summicron DR has the rangefinder coupling cam that is too far in the rear.
So digital M since M8 has the chamber with less room to accommodate the rear of DR.
Mounting the DR on those digital M is impossible (or a sort off) in normal range, but usable in near range. as is.
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Old 04-14-2016   #19
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Had one in nearly mint condition (with eyes) and sold it rather than modding it. I just could not bring myself to do it. Maybe the next owner modded it, maybe not but I could not. Its each persons call. Shame the digital Ms were not designed with it in mind as they are really nice lenses. Jewels really.
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Old 04-14-2016   #20
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I don't see the benefits of ruining a lens when you can swap it. Sell it and swap it for a Rigid Summicron.
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Old 04-14-2016   #21
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Just to clarify: the DR and the Rigid have exactly the same optical cell.
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Old 04-15-2016   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vics View Post
Just to clarify: the DR and the Rigid have exactly the same optical cell.
said before .. he's stubborn - needs to be slapped with a Leica 14312



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Old 04-15-2016   #23
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All things being equal you may be right. But this particular DR lens has cosmetic and some glass issues. Foe instance; No Goggles, been used by me for 40 years or so and looks it (worn chrome showing brass etc) and more importantly has a chip or small defect half way near the middle of the lens somewhere in the lens group. It can easily be seen but does not seem to effect the image that I can tell. Also no Leica lens caps or box etc. So who wants to trade their pristine 50mm rigid lens straight accross? Any offers?
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Old 04-15-2016   #24
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Originally Posted by JOCO34 View Post
All things being equal you may be right. But this particular DR lens has cosmetic and some glass issues. Foe instance; No Goggles, been used by me for 40 years or so and looks it (worn chrome showing brass etc) and more importantly has a chip or small defect half way near the middle of the lens somewhere in the lens group. It can easily be seen but does not seem to effect the image that I can tell. Also no Leica lens caps or box etc. So who wants to trade their pristine 50mm rigid lens straight accross? Any offers?
Aaaahhhhhh ... $hit I missed your point about the condition before.
Yeah I get it!
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Old 04-15-2016   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOCO34 View Post
All things being equal you may be right. But this particular DR lens has cosmetic and some glass issues. Foe instance; No Goggles, been used by me for 40 years or so and looks it (worn chrome showing brass etc) and more importantly has a chip or small defect half way near the middle of the lens somewhere in the lens group. It can easily be seen but does not seem to effect the image that I can tell. Also no Leica lens caps or box etc. So who wants to trade their pristine 50mm rigid lens straight accross? Any offers?

know, I know, we all find excuses to keep what we love!!

BTW, here is my Summicron 50/2 Rigid with my NEW M3 (it is perfectly CLAd, only needs a nice leatherette-sp?) in the future, in excellent shape, which I decided to keep, I do not really need the close up of the DR.



Leica M3 by Palenquero Photography, on Flickr

Next step, change the leatherette
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Old 04-15-2016   #26
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Pepe, if your M3 has only small bits of vulcanite falling apart, you could repair it, instead of replacing the whole leatherette.

Real vulcanite is so comfortable in use that no leatherette could compare.
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Old 04-15-2016   #27
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Pepe thats a simply gorgous set up!! Looks brand new. My stuff looks like a War correspondants cast offs!

A quick and really wonderful method to repair small areas missing vulcanite is to use liquid vinyl. It comes in a bottle and I use toothpicks or q tips with the heads cut off. Work slowly and only drop a small amount at a time. It fills in and can be removed later if you do a recover job.
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Old 04-15-2016   #28
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Pepe thats a simply gorgous set up!! Looks brand new. My stuff looks like a War correspondants cast offs!

A quick and really wonderful method to repair small areas missing vulcanite is to use liquid vinyl. It comes in a bottle and I use toothpicks or q tips with the heads cut off. Work slowly and only drop a small amount at a time. It fills in and can be removed later if you do a recover job.
Thanks for the tip. I got this M3 from Tamarkin (what a guy!!) and it was fully CLAd, 14-day return and 6-month warranty. You cannot go wrong. I rather pay a bit more to him, than play roulette buying from the big auction site. Liquid vinyl, where do I get it?

PS: People who advised me to get the meter: You were right. I tried without it first, and I was way off. The meter is really nice.
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Old 04-16-2016   #29
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Liquid vinyl is used for electrical insulation, covering tool handles etc. Most likely spots to find it are large box hardware stores like Sears, Home Depot, Lowes or Ace Hardware. Maybe Radio Shack. Be sure to use it sparingly with just a small applicator do not use the brush supplied with the bottle or your camera will look like it was dragged out of the La Brea Tar Pit!
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Old 04-16-2016   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepeguitarra View Post
Thanks for the tip. I got this M3 from Tamarkin (what a guy!!) and it was fully CLAd, 14-day return and 6-month warranty. You cannot go wrong. I rather pay a bit more to him, than play roulette buying from the big auction site. Liquid vinyl, where do I get it?

PS: People who advise me to get the meter: You were right. I tried without it first, and I was way off. The meter is really nice.
Nice M3 and the Rigid Summicron. I have bought from Tamarkin and will buy again too. Very pleasant to deal with and the gear is all well described. I'm from Australia and have bought my Summicron 35/2 Type 1, a DR Summicron (I have 2) and some Leica R gear as well as Summarons from Tamarkin.
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Old 04-16-2016   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOCO34 View Post
Pepe thats a simply gorgous set up!! Looks brand new. My stuff looks like a War correspondants cast offs!

A quick and really wonderful method to repair small areas missing vulcanite is to use liquid vinyl. It comes in a bottle and I use toothpicks or q tips with the heads cut off. Work slowly and only drop a small amount at a time. It fills in and can be removed later if you do a recover job.
This stuff works well and I have used it as well for the same purpose. Another trick that works very well too if liquid vinyl (sometimes marketed as liquid electrical tape) is unavailable is to go to the hardware store and find a one liter can of bitumen. I think its sometimes called roofing bitumen but is used for various purposes. The thick trowel-applied version is the one you need not the thin paintable variety. Apply it in the same way as described for liquid vinyl and when it sets, if carefully done you will not see the repair. After all I think its basically what is used in vulcanite. Be aware it does take a few days to firm up though. Just also be sure if any areas of vulcanite are falling off the lens / camera but are still attached it pays to flood the area under the vulcanite where its lifted with a little glue (super glue works fine). This will prevent more falling off.
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Old 04-16-2016   #32
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Quote:
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Richard: why don't you write up a report on how you use the DR unmodified on digital M cameras.
Thank you Raid. So I did just as you suggest:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...47#post2604747
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Old 04-16-2016   #33
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Thanks a lot!
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Old 04-27-2016   #34
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Last update I promise on my mod project for the 50mm DR. Just got it back from DAG (CLA and rear helical mod for my M240) and I am extremely happy with the result. It's like a new lens, except for the chip on the front element. It works great on the M240 and focus is dead on with the M's rangefinder. The extra weight adds I think to the stability of the camera at low shutter speeds. I tried several low exposures at 1/15 and 1/8 at f2 and was surprized with the results. I don't do any close up photography anyway so the loss of the close range focus was not an issue for me and to now have this great lens working for me is great. Thanks for all of the comments.
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