Old 03-22-2016   #81
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I've had nothing but good experiences dealing with Bellamy - he's a stand up guy.

He's not Kodak or Fuji or Agfa - cut him some slack, he's just one guy, doing things that he enjoys and working as a trusted agent for photographers and collectors.

If you don't want to use the film, don't.
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Old 03-22-2016   #82
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Why are some people so annoyed at having someone offer a film?
I am not concerned at all.
Go out and create images instead.
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Old 03-22-2016   #83
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To the naysayers: while this may be discontinued emulsion with no future, Bellamy is still paying a live manufacturer money for this product. It's not as if this is diverting potential buyers form supporting continuing manufacturing; Bellamy did not get this emulsion for free, money is still being paid to Agfa which at least potentially will support their ongoing production of other films.

To the yaysayers: Bellamy isn't being upfront about what this emulsion actually is and seems reluctant to be honest about this, even deliberately obfuscatory, probably because it will diminish his branding and show the film isn't worth the significant premium over similar films. His lack of transparency has added to the controversy over all of this, and IMO was a mistake.

He would do more favors to both manufacturers, the film community, and potentially his bottom line, by acting as international distributor/online retailer for European companies (Agfa, Foma, Ferrania, etc.) who made the emulsion he's trying to sell anyway. But of course this won't give the same "feel good" factor that bringing a film "back from the dead" will - or the ego boost.
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Old 03-22-2016   #84
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And thus JCH StreetPan was born! So this is a re-born film, not a re-spooled film that is still being sold. This is also not an ‘old stock’ film or a ‘pancake’ that was kicking around a ‘dusty warehouse’. This is a freshly produced emulsion with an expiry date of 2020. The film was no longer being produced and I had it put back into production. And for the record, this is not re-spooled Rollei Retro 400s.
I'm not quite sure where people think that he isn't being specific here
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Old 03-22-2016   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
Except those films are not SFAIK an "old discontinued surveillance film that was original made by AGFA"

Test the films side by side if you really want to know how they compare, instead of making guesses and accusations off dev times and tech sheets.

Stephen
Dear Stephen, I honestly don't understand what accusations are you referring to. My comments were only fair, based on objective facts and pointed at honestly trying to understand why one should invest money on this product: something that has not been made very clear by the seller himself.

Tech specs and developing times for this film have been provided by Agfa and JCH. They are facts, made available by others, not by me. The fact that they match 100% other available products is again objective and not something made up by me.

Fair enough, of course, that the film will have to be tested because tech specs by themselves don't mean everything. Whether it performs worse, same or better as cheaper similar films from other producers with similar characteristics will have to be verified.

Regards.
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Old 03-23-2016   #86
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How much is Rollei 400s in Japan?
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Old 03-23-2016   #87
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This is a strange thread! There is a group who are very skeptical about the film and whether it deserves a place in the market or not ... and the other group who seem aghast that they have this opinion and are constantly telling them they shouldn't be so negative about a 'new' film irrespective of what it is or how much it costs.

It's like the big enders and little enders from Gulliver's Travels where they couldn't agree on which end of an egg should be cracked for eating.

People will buy it, or they won't ... the market place will be the decider!
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Old 03-23-2016   #88
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The bottom line for me is that the more different types of film there out there the better it is in my opinion. If it gets squeezed down to one or two manufacturers the price will skyrocket ... a monopoly or duopoly would quickly translate into bleeding the consumer for all they can get!
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Old 03-23-2016   #89
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How much is Rollei 400s in Japan?
About 4.40 USD in packs of 10, 4.90 for a single roll.

http://www.silversalt.jp/index.php?m...roducts_id=262
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Old 03-24-2016   #90
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I won't buy it. Too expensive and just bland.

Film is a niche now, and surprisingly we are having this whole lot of repackaged/reborn/resomething 135 films all trying to fill it up - we've had two "new" films showed up this month alone! I'd say they really should get more original...for example introduce something, anything, again in 220. Unlikely though, considering what the actual driving force behind all these is.
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Old 03-24-2016   #91
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So, quick question. No judgement - just my amateur brain working loudly

First: for how many boxes is that price (9750 yen) ? seems it must be ten, right? Is that price okish in Japan? it wouldn't be here, no matter how good. The only film that costs more here is Acros100 in the moment (fuji really wants us all to buy a digital with acros simulation, eh?)

Second: I'm no fan of the contrast of near infrared film .. I've shot a lot of retro 80s and it definitely has less latitude than a "normal" film. I've not tried any 400 ISO but judging from posts you can find in the net it is the same thing. How can one expose/filter/develop such film that it looks more like classic films not like b/w converted digital?
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Old 03-24-2016   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
My conclusion: Buying the JCH stuff has only disadvantages compared to buying the Rollei Stuff.
finally someone say things as they are.
This adventure from Bellamy actually hurts the film industry. Every roll sold with be a one less for Kodak and Ilford, the companies that are actually keeping film alive plus, its more expensive and he's actually lying when asked if it was Aviphot and hides which kind of film it is for obvious reasons.
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Old 03-24-2016   #93
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Bellamy's film is more expensive (almost double) compared to the Rollei Retro 400s sold by silversalt.jp in japan.
http://www.silversalt.jp/index.php?m...roducts_id=262
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Old 03-24-2016   #94
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Dasnkdynamic every Roll sold of Agfa Emulsion keeps film alive much more so than Ilford who is still a smaller film mfg. than Agfa. Also since the Ilford takeover I'd be very very careful about Ilford being the savior of film photography. Foma also makes decent film and great paper and they have much much more interest in keeping film production going than the new Ilford Management. Foma depends on the income from film so does Kodak but certainly not the new Ilford owners or Agfa Gevaert.
Fuji also has a larger film Palette than Ilford so why is Ilford the Savior but not the others.
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Old 03-24-2016   #95
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Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
finally someone say things as they are.
This adventure from Bellamy actually hurts the film industry. Every roll sold with be a one less for Kodak and Ilford, the companies that are actually keeping film alive plus, its more expensive and he's actually lying when asked if it was Aviphot and hides which kind of film it is for obvious reasons.
I don't believe that - people that want Tri-X buy Tri-X same for Tmax or HP5. You can't substitute one film with another.
Also I don't believe that JCH film will bite a even measureable bit ouit of Ilford's or Kodak's sales.
Film is good, more film is better. Choices may attract more new converts.
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Old 03-24-2016   #96
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Originally Posted by k__43 View Post
So, quick question. No judgement - just my amateur brain working loudly

First: for how many boxes is that price (9750 yen) ? seems it must be ten, right? Is that price okish in Japan? it wouldn't be here, no matter how good. The only film that costs more here is Acros100 in the moment (fuji really wants us all to buy a digital with acros simulation, eh?)

Second: I'm no fan of the contrast of near infrared film .. I've shot a lot of retro 80s and it definitely has less latitude than a "normal" film. I've not tried any 400 ISO but judging from posts you can find in the net it is the same thing. How can one expose/filter/develop such film that it looks more like classic films not like b/w converted digital?
First:
975 yen/roll for this kind of film is on the expensive side in Japan given the availability of similar alternatives (i.e. Retro 400S) for half the price. Again, to these days nobody knows what emulsion this "streetpan" film exactly is, so nobody can say if it's 100% same as 400S, 95% the same or entirely different and therefore worth investing on it without proper testing. For now we only know that the technical details provided by JCH are the same as 400S, but according to his words it's not 400S.
Should this "new" film confirm itself after testing as something unique on the market and able to provide something that similar cheaper emulsions don't, the price may be justified (see for example the case of Cinestill emulsions: they're expensive, but they're offering something unique).

What one can be sure about is that this film and Rollei Retro 400S have nothing to do with TriX, HP5+, Tmax that now in Japan go all for about the same price per roll as this "streetpan", if not more (a roll of HP5+ at Bic Camera or Yodobashi Camera is more than 1,000 yen). And for sure "streetpan" and 400S have nothing to do with the now extinct Neopan 400, because of completely different emulsion characteristics (e.g. the near I.R. sensitivity and the base).

Second:
I have shot both Retro 80S and 400S. They are not everyday's emulsions in virtue of their peculiar chemistry as you have already realized. I've found 400S developed in Rodinal and in Kodak Tmax Dev to be a little more forgiving in terms of contrast compared to its slower brother. Use of filters is tricky too: 400S with a dark orange filter can even show results somehow similar to IR emulsions. Given that even without filters the shadows tend to block easily compared to "normal" films, filters must be used carefully with this kind of emulsions especially if you're printing in the darkroom.
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Old 03-24-2016   #97
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About 4.40 USD in packs of 10, 4.90 for a single roll.

http://www.silversalt.jp/index.php?m...roducts_id=262
Thanks... and
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Old 03-24-2016   #98
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Originally Posted by Muju79 View Post
First:
975 yen/roll for this kind of film is on the expensive side in Japan given the availability of similar alternatives (i.e. Retro 400S) for half the price. Again, to these days nobody knows what emulsion this "streetpan" film exactly is, so nobody can say if it's 100% same as 400S, 95% the same or entirely different and therefore worth investing on it without proper testing. For now we only know that the technical details provided by JCH are the same as 400S, but according to his words it's not 400S.
Should this "new" film confirm itself after testing as something unique on the market and able to provide something that similar cheaper emulsions don't, the price may be justified (see for example the case of Cinestill emulsions: they're expensive, but they're offering something unique).

What one can be sure about is that this film and Rollei Retro 400S have nothing to do with TriX, HP5+, Tmax that now in Japan go all for about the same price per roll as this "streetpan", if not more (a roll of HP5+ at Bic Camera or Yodobashi Camera is more than 1,000 yen). And for sure "streetpan" and 400S have nothing to do with the now extinct Neopan 400, because of completely different emulsion characteristics (e.g. the near I.R. sensitivity and the base).

Second:
I have shot both Retro 80S and 400S. They are not everyday's emulsions in virtue of their peculiar chemistry as you have already realized. I've found 400S developed in Rodinal and in Kodak Tmax Dev to be a little more forgiving in terms of contrast compared to its slower brother. Use of filters is tricky too: 400S with a dark orange filter can even show results somehow similar to IR emulsions. Given that even without filters the shadows tend to block easily compared to "normal" films, filters must be used carefully with this kind of emulsions especially if you're printing in the darkroom.
Thanks for that well written reply. I use Rodinal mostly so that is already given.
Retro 80s can look stunning with a red or orange filter but most of the time it is not my thing. I've bought 100ft for a super price some time ago but I still have 2 or 3 IXMOOs loaded
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Old 07-16-2016   #99
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So has anyone shot this film yet? Any examples to post? (Looking through the comments on this thread I'm almost afraid to ask, but I am curious about this film....)
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Old 07-16-2016   #100
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Received notice a few days ago that mine was on the way. Latest tracking report has it leaving LA Customs so I suspect I will be receiving it early next week.

I am looking forward to getting it and I'm sure it will be great fun working out the details in my M-A and my Spottie.

As for destroying the film industry as we know it...pffft!

As far as I'm concerned, the more options I have the merrier.
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Old 07-16-2016   #101
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2 rolls came home with me today. Yesss! They will be exposed in a few days and turned in for processing within the week.

Lenses to be tried:
21mm Super Angulon
35mm Summicron ASPH
40mm 1.4 Nokton SC
50mm v.3 Cron
50mm 1.5 Sonnar
75mm 2.5 Summarit
50mm 2.8 Elmar old
50mm 1.5 Summarit


Each exposure recorded as to particulars.
Leica M4 with only 5 rolls through it since Youxin Ye CLA'ed it.

This will be fun.
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Old 07-17-2016   #102
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Glad to learn you guys are trying the film and will look forward to learning your impressions of it. Yes, more options are great!
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Old 07-21-2016   #103
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Anyone else rather see an old (or new) E6 film instead?
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Old 07-21-2016   #104
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From a consumer standpoint I see reasons to be nonplussed, but from a commercial standpoint having "new" films at higher prices might encourage companies to reintroduce things that they would have otherwise shuttered or lost. It might raise the ambient price floor though, so that's mixed.
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Old 07-21-2016   #105
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Anyone else rather see an old (or new) E6 film instead?
I would love to see a new E6 film. I am hoping that the Ferrania project works. But it is still nice to see a new B&W film.
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Old 07-22-2016   #106
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Has anybody tried it with a red filter and done a technical comparison with Ilford SFX?
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Old 07-22-2016   #107
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If the film is a discontinued emulsion that is now back in production then I think it best if Bellamy is forthright in mentioning what emulsion it actually is. A few people have asked him and have been met with prickly responses without answers, which leads me to feel this is more a vanity project than anything.

I can't see this helping on hurting the film industry in any significant way though, less so than his habitual slagging of Fuji anyway.
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Old 07-22-2016   #108
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Angry

Why should a business be that transparent?
Satisfying detail oriented people's idle curiosity is an incredible waste of time, energy, resources, and life.


This thread is filled with Computer Chihuahuas who feel prosperity is gained by biting the ankles of Goodness. It reminds me of that YouTube channel called The Angry Photographer.

Good grief.
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Old 07-22-2016   #109
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Why should a business be that transparent?
So this guy brings back a discontinued emulsion, doesn't tell anyone what it is and expects everyone to pay double the price of comparable film from the same factory? Yeah, you're right he definitely shouldn't be transparent about what his product is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl J. View Post
Satisfying detail oriented people's idle curiosity is an incredible waste of time, energy, resources, and life.
Perhaps emotions running a bit high, it would take less effort for me to type this sentence than for Bellamy to disclose his product
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Old 07-22-2016   #110
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So this guy brings back a discontinued emulsion, doesn't tell anyone what it is and expects everyone to pay double the price of comparable film from the same factory? Yeah, you're right he definitely shouldn't be transparent about what his product is.



Perhaps emotions running a bit high, it would take less effort for me to type this sentence than for Bellamy to disclose his product
Boy are you grumpy this morning.

First off he does not expect everyone to pay double. How do you know what he was charged? That, if I remember correctly, is how a business decides what to charge for their product.

Second, he has already told us a lot about this film. He may in fact be constrained by contract not to discuss his products previous life. I don't remember Freestyle formally announcing the actual source of any of their self-branded films.

Finally, exactly why is that important? The film has been introduced, explained and is being sold for what it IS, not what it WAS. The box and his website gives relatively good developing information without actually producing an actual Ilford or Kodak datasheet. If you don't like it, don't buy it, simple as that.

Now I am going to take my own advice and I will discontinue visiting this thread since I don't like it.
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Old 07-26-2016   #111
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Why should a business be that transparent?
Satisfying detail oriented people's idle curiosity is an incredible waste of time, energy, resources, and life.
Due to the personal nature of the business. I ran a similar business with a different underlying fan base for some 15 years... out of Japan... through the internet... with a huge word of mouth customer base. Transparency is your friend. Of course you don't have to be, but you reap what you sow.
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Old 07-26-2016   #112
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Couldn't have said it better.

The guy has worked hard, and laboured mightily to do something. You aren't required to cheer him on, support it or even agree with it. But the tiresome internet slagging is pointless, depressing and counter-productive to the shared pursuit of photography (I'm assuming we can all agree that photography is good..?)

The film is there. Take it or don't. End of story.


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Originally Posted by jalLee2001 View Post
I agree with Paul T.. Some of these comments about Bellamy Hunt are un-warrented. I have ordered many things from Mr Hunt. He has always been a very honest and forthcoming individual to deal with.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. But quit attacking this guy. I think what he has done is interesting. And I applaud him for doing so.
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Old 07-26-2016   #113
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Transparency got nothing to do with a successful business .

Have Coca Cola ever discussed its formula?

If anyone wants to support the film industry, buy more film, shoot more and show it to your friends.

What killed the film industry wasn't some niche product like this one, but the lack of interest for film from the general public. Fight to increase the film customer base (using film, promoting it use, etc.) and I'm sure that will help the film industry more than anything.

Cheers
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Old 07-26-2016   #114
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It's my mission to make sure Big Yellow doesn't go belly up Have enough expired/ surveillance/mystery etc film to last a long time.
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Old 07-26-2016   #115
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How do you know what he was charged? That, if I remember correctly, is how a business decides what to charge for their product.
That is NOT how retailers decide what to charge for a product. They charge what they think they can get away with charging. Sometimes it is not much more than the wholesale cost of the item. Sometimes the markup is EXTREME. Sometimes, they actually sell a product for LESS than they paid the manufacturer for it!

I know all of this because I was, long ago, the assistant manager of a store belonging to one of the world's largest drugstore chains. Here are some examples:

Glucosamine is a popular 'dietary supplement.' Its a pill that is claimed to help with pain from arthritis, though there's little or no scientific evidence that it does anything but drain people's wallets. It is quite expensive.

Our company sold several brands of Glucosamine, including a store-brand. The leading brand-name was called Osteo Bi Flex. Its come down in price since then (15 yrs ago), but back we sold a bottle of 40 pills for $45. The wholesale cost was $39. We didn't make a lot of money from each sale.

The store brand version sold for a lot less. $35 retail. The wholesale cost was just $3 a bottle! The markup on the store brand was extreme.

The problem for me was that a lot of elderly people struggling to survive on Social Security, often with no other income, and suffering from terrible joint pain, would come in and agonize over whether they should buy this stuff, instead of eating properly. I'd say no, but these people were so desperate for ANYTHING that would help them with their arthritis pain.

The store brand was a better deal, but even that was too expensive for many of them. If the company I worked for had based the price of their store-brand Glucosamine on the cost they paid for it, they could have sold it for much, much less. They didn't, because that's not how retailers price things. They priced it at a level that made it look like an incredible deal for the customer.

We sold stuff for less than we paid for them too. An example was the four-packs of Kodak and Fuji color print films. We sold them ridiculously cheap. At the time, a 4-pack of Fuji 200 was selling for about $5, and the wholesale was $9. Why did we sell it SO far below our cost?

One word: Photofinishing. We had a one-hour lab in the store, and we also had a lower-price next-day service for film developing. The markup on film processing was extremely high. If we could get a customer in the door for the underpriced film, we had a good change of getting them to come back for overpriced developing, and we made a good profit in the deal!

To recap: wholesale cost of goods has almost nothing to do with retail pricing. Retailers charge the highest prices they think they can get away with, though sometimes they sell at a loss to get customers in the door to buy something with a higher profit margin.
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Old 07-26-2016   #116
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I had previously wrote a post questioning the benefit of this film under the assumption it was old stock. However Bellamy has updated his article on this film and included the following:

"This is also not an ‘old stock’ film or a ‘pancake’ that was kicking around a ‘dusty warehouse’. This is a freshly produced emulsion with an expiry date of 2020. The film was no longer being produced and I had it put back into production. And for the record, this is not re-spooled Rollei Retro 400s."

I think if the comments saying it is old stock are based on the jargon in his original write-up then this should be sufficient evidence that it is new production. Hopefully this thread can help clear some of the confusion on the film. I wish Bellamy the best of luck in this endeavor.

This update has been around for a while, and was posted previously as well, and yet some people are so desperate to insist that it's an old stock.

I really don't understand why this message isn't landing with people.
He hasn't been secretive, he's given information, he's given clarification, a number of times, and people are still insisting.
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Old 07-26-2016   #117
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From this thread I've learned that it "couldn't possibly be fresh production because that would be expensive."

And then that "This is an expensive product"

hmmmm
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Old 07-26-2016   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
Received notice a few days ago that mine was on the way. Latest tracking report has it leaving LA Customs so I suspect I will be receiving it early next week.

I am looking forward to getting it and I'm sure it will be great fun working out the details in my M-A and my Spottie.

As for destroying the film industry as we know it...pffft!

As far as I'm concerned, the more options I have the merrier.
Please show us the results, I am curious and I think having more choice in terms of film is just a good thing.
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Old 07-26-2016   #119
Pioneer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfthari View Post
Please show us the results, I am curious and I think having more choice in terms of film is just a good thing.
There is one Wulfthari. In this same subforum go to JCH Street Pan 400 Photos. I have been posting my results to this point. I have some more hanging and should be able to get it scanned in this evening.
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Old 07-26-2016   #120
fireblade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfthari View Post
Please show us the results, I am curious and I think having more choice in terms of film is just a good thing.
There are pictures available from this film on his website, explains his developing and scanning for the said images, looks good.
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