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Old 02-01-2016   #81
Lauffray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
Hereabouts not remotely. I can pre-arrange for the seller to send it by courier service rather than by post - at roughly twenty times the price of the latter. If it goes through the customs at the hands of the German Post and the customs for whatever reasons determine that a payment might be due, the Post refuses any further involvement, and it is between me, personally, and the customs - where the latter only offer pick-up. Within two weeks, or it will be destroyed, returned or auctioned off at the discretion of the customs office.
That sounds way too complicated but over here too the national post is not really involved, it's between you and customs. Either you refuse to pay, send it back for a reassessment, or you pay in full to receive the item then request an adjustment.

I've never done it, unless there's a big mistake frankly I think it's too much work for what I actually pay in duty.

It should be said I have a deep loathing for couriers, on occasion I've refused to do business with a seller that only offers courier shipping
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Old 02-01-2016   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
Hereabouts not remotely. I can pre-arrange for the seller to send it by courier service rather than by post - at roughly twenty times the price of the latter. If it goes through the customs at the hands of the German Post and the customs for whatever reasons determine that a payment might be due, the Post refuses any further involvement, and it is between me, personally, and the customs - where the latter only offer pick-up. Within two weeks, or it will be destroyed, returned or auctioned off at the discretion of the customs office.
Very similar situation in Italy which is why even if I see very interesting items I never buy outside Europe

robert

PS: which of course is no reason to cheat, I'm 100% with Dante about this
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Old 02-01-2016   #83
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Originally Posted by Lauffray View Post
Erich ? Erich Honecker ?
I thought that fashion of hanging the president's picture everywhere was mostly common in developing countries
yep. that's what we were, behind the curtain
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Old 02-01-2016   #84
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Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
So you can insure my brick for $5000 dollars, but when it is lost the postal insurance will not pay me $5000. They will pay me the $1 that the brick is actually worth, unless you claim it was something other than a brick.
maybe that is true but then, that is FRAUD committed by the postal insurance company.
Because they do take the extra $ to insure something at a value higher than what they will pay you when it is lost.
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Old 02-01-2016   #85
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Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
Scandinavia has the reputation of being much more socially logical than the rest of the world.
Well, then for once Belgium isn't that bad. Whatever parcel service is used, it passes customs. They check (open parcel if needed) and then sometimes contact you to provide proof of what you paid (item + shipping) even with customs documents attached. Then they get out their calculator and add to the lot 2% import duties, then add 20 euro for the service of invoicing you and add 21% tax to that sum. Then they just let the parcel continue on its journey after anything up to 14 days. You pay sometimes at delivery (like when it comes with the Belgian post) or get an invoice with some carriers.

It doesn't matter if you have it labelled "gift" or "goods'" or "samples": you pay the lot.

And even then it is often cheaper to let it come from the US. Haven't tried Japan yet.

Now if they consider it counterfeit goods... then they are destroyed (at your cost) and you pay 300% taxes.
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Old 02-01-2016   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pherdinand View Post
yep. that's what we were, behind the curtain





I also just thought of another reason why import tax sucks sometimes. It's the same as VAT actually same amount and same cause etc. BUT I don't pay VAT when I buy from a private seller. Why do I have to pay it when the private guy sits outside the EU? Stinks
US Americans have it easy: you don't even pay any VAT if you order online from another US state, right?

Even crazier - when I ship it to a friend in the Netherlands I pay less import tax and then ship it here - completely legal. I don't do that cos its way to complicated for the cheap stuff I am able to buy.
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Old 02-01-2016   #87
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US Americans have it easy: you don't even pay any VAT if you order online from another US state, right?
Oh you have it easy ? That must be why everyone in the classifieds always sells to "USCON only" and complain about shipping abroad when you ask
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Old 02-01-2016   #88
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This conversation (and many others on RFF) would be SO much easier to follow if all members put where they live in their profiles.

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Old 02-01-2016   #89
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Oh you have it easy ? That must be why everyone in the classifieds always sells to "USCON only" and complain about shipping abroad when you ask
i don't think he means "us, the americans" i think he means United States Americans" (which he is not)

hehe
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Old 02-01-2016   #90
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The seller isn't obligated to pay my state's "sales tax" but big corporate retailers do if they have a presence in the state. Amazon found out about that.

Here in California, if the seller doesn't pay the 7.50-10.0% "sales tax", we buyers get zapped with a "use tax" of the same amount which is an old law the state dusted-off in recent years just to be nice. A number of states have similar laws which makes the buyer pay taxes.

There's no national sales tax nor a VAT and not every state has a sales tax. But even within a state, cities and counties often tack on their own sales taxes or "use" taxes. The older or more populated a state is, the more such taxes there tend to be.

City, County, State and Federal, there's plenty of government with their hands out over here in the land of the free.


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Originally Posted by k__43 View Post



I also just thought of another reason why import tax sucks sometimes. It's the same as VAT actually same amount and same cause etc. BUT I don't pay VAT when I buy from a private seller. Why do I have to pay it when the private guy sits outside the EU? Stinks
US Americans have it easy: you don't even pay any VAT if you order online from another US state, right?

Even crazier - when I ship it to a friend in the Netherlands I pay less import tax and then ship it here - completely legal. I don't do that cos its way to complicated for the cheap stuff I am able to buy.
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Old 02-01-2016   #91
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Damn, that's complicated

And yes I'm no American
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Old 02-01-2016   #92
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Originally Posted by photomoof View Post
Honestly I don't understand your point. In most countries insurance pays for loss up to the actual value of the item, no more.
My point is that there ARE many countries where you can have your transparency of a gold shi***ng Unicorn taken on Kodachrome mailed with specified value of 500 EUR. In case your mail gets lost, you get your 500 EUR. You won't have to accept a roll of Velvia as a compensation.

Slovenian Post GT&Cs:

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Old 02-02-2016   #93
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That is true, but for some items the supply is so limited in Europe. I was looking for Fuji GA645 and ended up buying from Japanese seller, even after 24% Finnish VAT and the duty it was still cheaper than any European seller would offer...
Happy to agree with you - when supply dictates you have to take a hit. Generally though, duty/tax on the Japan market makes it unacceptable - a big loss particularly for Canon screw lenses (and the abundance of Fuji MF cameras!). I have though sources an number of low value items (unobtainable in the UK) with no seller issues at all.

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Old 02-02-2016   #94
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My point is that there ARE many countries where you can have your transparency of a gold shi***ng Unicorn taken on Kodachrome mailed with specified value of 500 EUR. In case your mail gets lost, you get your 500 EUR. You won't have to accept a roll of Velvia as a compensation.

Slovenian Post GT&Cs:

Exactly! And you can look it up beforehand and the Import Duty and other Taxes on the import and then sit down with a pencil and paper; calculator, slide rule, spreadsheet or whatever and know in advance.

Most countries allow you to import/export things for repair and then charge tax and duty on the repair. Also, if you mark what you are sending "Broken Camera for Repair" on the green form you'll put off thieves etc in the post. But how you ask politely in Russian for the green form to be marked "Repair to broken camera" escapes me. And there's an international code for all these things (digital and film) that the customs people will obligingly tell you in the UK.

Regards, David

PS Mentioned where I came from, ie "UK" and that will be interpreted as Ukraine by some and United Kingdom by others...

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Old 02-02-2016   #95
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I have no problem paying my taxes. I pay income tax, business tax, residency tax, national health care premiums, national pension plan deductions, consumption tax, and various-and-sundry other fees and taxes. Altogether these amount to more than $6000 per month.

But I am not fond of tariffs or import taxes; these do not go to support healthcare, education, or infrastructure, they are intended to protect domestic industry and agriculture from foreign competition. Here in Japan everything expensive, and much of the reason is the tariffs and taxes imposed. Tax on rice is more than 700%, dairy and meats are up to 250%, leather goods, and other things are highly taxed. The net effect of high tariffs in a country where most things must be imported is a high cost of living, and this in turn has resulted in a population decline of more than 100,000 per year. This sharp decline in the population means trouble because without an increasing population, the national pension plan and healthcare plans will eventually become insolvent. As it is, Japan's national debt is 250% of GDP, far higher than that of Greece.

If a customer of mine asks me to declare a package to a particular value, I will do it without hesitation. If I don't do as he asks, then he won't buy what I am selling, and if he doesn't buy it, I don't get any money. If I don't get any money, then the people who sell goods to me don't get any money, and if they don't get any money, they buy and consume less, and the effect is felt my many. I pay my full share of tax on the money he pays me, and the people I buy from pay taxes too. The less they sell, the less tax they pay. Japan doesn't care much about documentation for goods being exported, but they are particular about imports, and any money coming in.

If the customer doesn't buy, then no one wins, and the government gets nothing at all, which means that healthcare, education, etc get nothing. If the value is declared lower, and the customer does buy, then the governments of both countries get more than they would otherwise. Japan gets the 35% they tax me on my profits, and the customer pays his 18% to 80% of whatever is written on the shipping label.
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Old 02-02-2016   #96
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I am reading a lot of "my country charges X% import fee and it's unfair."

Yes, I get that. It sounds unfair to me too.

However, asking the seller, who didn't create the unfair tax situation and cannot do anything about it, to break the law themselves to help you correct what you see as an unfair imposition, is not the answer.

The answer is to seek redress from your own government. If that is not possible, I am sorry for you, but I won't be complicit in skirting the law, or even eBay rules, on your behalf.

Why would you expect it to be my job to do so?
Exactly. Countries that have free healthcare and schooling and early retirement and all the rest asked for those taxes. Now they have them. But as with all humans, we want it for free, not to have to work or pay for it. That's the problem with it, only a few actually USE or NEED the services, but ALL pay for them! Import taxes try to prevent exactly what we are doing with cameras, free trade. They should not apply to antiques, only to consumer goods, electronics, commodities. VAT taxes are created to try to prop up your country's industry and economy.

Buyers complaining about their taxes, and trying to defraud their countrymen, are being unpatriotic at best, and selfish at worst. I've sold a lot overseas, and don't play that game. You don't like your system? Then change it!
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Old 02-02-2016   #97
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But you'd do it for a friend anytime?

Joking aside, most (me included) probably didn't know that it's a crime in the US.
Ha, that's what i thought when I read that also, although I'm sure it wasn't meant that way. Reminds me of that old one: 'Friends help you move, real friends help you move bodies.'
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Old 02-02-2016   #98
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You don't like your system? Then change it!
I'm a little busy changing the outside temperature. Can that wait until tomorrow?
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Old 02-02-2016   #99
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So what you are saying is there are countries which will accept fraud on the declared actual value of the item, and never question it or require proof of actual value?
Where does fraud get into the picture, other than in your imagination? In just about every b2b mailing, the damage incurred by a loss of the mailed item exceeds its material value, often by a very considerable margin. For example, a publisher not receiving the photographs for a publication in time might have to pay for rush re-shoots, have wasted a production slot at the printer, and might even be stuck with a wasted trade show presence and a forced delay of the scheduled product for a year - and the contract will usually give the photographer the responsibility for timely and complete delivery. Accordingly, many postal and courier services offer insurances where the sender can declare the damages a mail loss (or even a delivery out of time) would cause. At his own expense - this is no free or flat-fee service, but charged by a percentage of the insurance value.
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Old 02-02-2016   #100
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Why bother working when you could just ship million euro "gold" bricks until one is lost, then cash in?
The insurance for a million Euro gold brick with the German post would be 15,000€. If they don't lose one in time (and they probably will not - at that price they will probably send it hand-cuffed to a trusted courier, in a armoured car), you lose money over that scheme.
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Old 02-02-2016   #101
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Why bother working when you could just ship million euro "gold" bricks until one is lost, then cash in?
Great many people actually do something similar. We call it lottery here.

Your proposal has less chances of winning, though.
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Old 02-02-2016   #102
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Oh you have it easy ? That must be why everyone in the classifieds always sells to "USCON only" and complain about shipping abroad when you ask
No, it's because many abroad from the US think shipping internationally is cheap... but if you do it right (protecting the seller), it is never cheap. It's easier just to avoid since there are plenty of US buyers.
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Old 02-02-2016   #103
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I don't mind taxes so much as the hassle of customs, handling fees, delays etc.
The point is moot these days because of our abysmal exchange rates.
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Old 02-02-2016   #104
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No, it's because many abroad from the US think shipping internationally is cheap... but if you do it right (protecting the seller), it is never cheap. It's easier just to avoid since there are plenty of US buyers.
Yes you're making my point John
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Old 02-02-2016   #105
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Sorry, but I think the entire premise of the OP is silly.

Yes, if I can reduce someone's import taxes I will do so.

Yes, if I buy a lens for $150 and a seller will put the selling price as $95 then I'm fine with that. If it passes under the radar of customs, then that also saves me a collection fee to the courier. I can claim my VAT back, but I"ll never get that collection fee, which is a simple scam.

Secondly, sales taxes are dubious anyway - it's well known they're unfair and target the poor who are in essence more highly taxed than the rich in the UK.

HMRC, the British Customs, are quite happy to take tax to which they're not entitled. For instance, they've slapped VAT on boxes of books I've received; and there is no VAT on books. So if the whole thing evens out, thanks to some modest under-declaring, that is fine by me.

I don't mind paying taxes, I lose plenty of receipts that I can claim against tax, but as for flag-waving for a patently unfair tax, which then comes with extra arbitrary fees from dodgy privatised companies - forget it!
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Old 02-02-2016   #106
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Funny, in 30 years of selling I don't think I've ever had anyone ask me to reduce the value of the item on the custom forms.
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Old 02-02-2016   #107
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No one can deny your feelings and the opinions of others in this thread about taxation and customs policies. But the main point made by the OP is that many sellers, including myself, will not falsify customs forms when shipping outside the country to reduce the actual selling price. It should not be expected, and if
you don't like this, you can continue to buy from someone who is willing to falsify the actual selling price.

That is the main point of the OP. It is not silly at all.



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Sorry, but I think the entire premise of the OP is silly.

Yes, if I can reduce someone's import taxes I will do so.

Yes, if I buy a lens for $150 and a seller will put the selling price as $95 then I'm fine with that. If it passes under the radar of customs, then that also saves me a collection fee to the courier. I can claim my VAT back, but I"ll never get that collection fee, which is a simple scam.

Secondly, sales taxes are dubious anyway - it's well known they're unfair and target the poor who are in essence more highly taxed than the rich in the UK.

HMRC, the British Customs, are quite happy to take tax to which they're not entitled. For instance, they've slapped VAT on boxes of books I've received; and there is no VAT on books. So if the whole thing evens out, thanks to some modest under-declaring, that is fine by me.

I don't mind paying taxes, I lose plenty of receipts that I can claim against tax, but as for flag-waving for a patently unfair tax, which then comes with extra arbitrary fees from dodgy privatised companies - forget it!
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Old 02-02-2016   #108
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If you don't want these requests simply specify your views and believes on taxes in the listing.
I can assure you that as a seller I know from personal experience this does not work.. Before I started quit selling to Canadian and overseas buyers I would be asked by most buyers to devalue the item and/or declare it as a gift even though my description clearly stated I would not..
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