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EVF (VF-2) on the 240 ... more than adequate and extremely useful.
Old 09-19-2014   #1
Keith
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EVF (VF-2) on the 240 ... more than adequate and extremely useful.

It arrived today from KEH (used) and I've just tried it on the camera and have to say it's not half bad. A little juddery (typicallly) but very clear and bright and an absolute bonus for focusing fast lenses.

In particular my 50mm C Sonnar which I've found to be very difficult wide open on the digi Leica. As we know these things exhibit a lot of focus shift which I've discovered is accentuated by the full frame sensor which appears to have little or no margin for error. I've blown more shots with this lens wide open on the M than even I would have predicted ... a PITA actually!

The VF-2 clips on in a second or two and a quick press of the button at the back of the EVF activates it ... pressing the button on the front of the camera just below the shutter release allows you zoom right in for critical focus ... very simple and so effective. Why anyone would complain about the position of this zoom button (and they do) on the front of the 240 is beyond me ... to me it seems idealy placed for the tip of the middle finger when holding the camera with your index finger poised on the shutter release.

All I need now is the adapter I ordered for my Zuikos and I'll be a very happy camper!
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Old 09-19-2014   #2
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Keith - when focusing you can use the rear scroll wheel to adjust Magnification. The latest firmware activated this function. Also, what I find most useful is by using full manual exposure, I.e. not auto, you will get WYSIWYG through the EVF by adjusting the EV.

Maybe you already knew this.
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Old 09-19-2014   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeRay View Post
Keith - when focusing you can use the rear scroll wheel to adjust Magnification. The latest firmware activated this function. Also, what I find most useful is by using full manual exposure, I.e. not auto, you will get WYSIWYG through the EVF by adjusting the EV.

Maybe you already knew this.

Thanks for the heads up about using manual exposure with the EVF ... that's excellent.

The camera must have come with the latest firmware because the scroll wheel does control magnification. This 240 really is a potent tool IMO ... it's several cameras in one in reality.
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Old 09-19-2014   #4
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that's called.. experiencing the technology : )
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Old 09-19-2014   #5
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I found the Olympus version on the Bay and in Canada, so I used that extensively on a recent trip to France. The 75mm Summicron is a PITA to get accurate focus at its close range, especially with the paralax and I don't find the 75mm framelines all that accurate either. The EVF is brilliant. I'm getting magnification when I begin to change focus, not sure if that's a setting, but I like it. I didn't use the front button once during the trip. Thinking of picking up a macro tube and maybe a zoom too, as the Live View/EVF make that possible.
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Old 09-19-2014   #6
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I can appreciate that some of the purists aren't too thrilled about a lot of the technollogy present in the 240 ... but not being too much of a purist I'm finding it to be brilliant!
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Old 09-19-2014   #7
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Hmmm... Maybe I'll have to find one and try it out for precise work. Thanks for the comments!
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Old 09-19-2014   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I can appreciate that some of the purists aren't too thrilled about a lot of the technollogy present in the 240 ... but not being too much of a purist I'm finding it to be brilliant!
I also am far from a purist.

The M (type 240) is appealing to me mostly for its greatly improved responsiveness compared to the M9, but the ability to also be used with my Leica R lenses using Live View and the EVF is another big plus.

I may yet acquire one of the M-P bodies.

G
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Old 09-19-2014   #9
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I believe EVF helps a LOT if you are using 50 noctilux or even summilux, no need to mention any longer lenses (75mm, 90mm etc)
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Old 09-19-2014   #10
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I use a thumbs-up and that's the only issue with the EVF, have to take that off. But the trade off is so worth it. Might try a thumbie instead.
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Old 09-19-2014   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segedi View Post
I'm getting magnification when I begin to change focus, not sure if that's a setting, but I like it.......... .
This can also be adjusted to either 1x, 5x or 10x via the scroll wheel. Personally I find 5x better.
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Old 09-19-2014   #12
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My personal assesment of the EVF on the M240 is that is barely adequate and of limited usefulness. The black out being the worst as it makes it such a slow solution. Another problem is being limited to zoom in only in the center.
I find it only usefull for 90mm (and longer) and only on stationary objects. For anything else I find the ovf the much superior solution.
I have used an evf on the sony nex 5n which was superior.
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Old 09-19-2014   #13
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I agree, Keith. I received an Oly version of the VF-2 just yesterday myself and like the M240 itself, the thing is doing its job quite well. From Internet reports, I was expecting a disgustingly, vile EVF view as seen in the last decade. Though I can appreciate mismatched expectations if one bought the VF-2 new with Leica badging.

For me, It's definitely in my bag now so when I haul-out the 90/2 Pre-Asph for a portrait. The VF-2 also might be just the ticket for camera-affected subjects when used in the vertical position in the fashion of a waist-level finder. Not for stealth per se, just for folks I know who reflexively go bug-eyed, stone-faced, and very much unlike themselves when any camera is raised to eye-level.

With my 21mm lens, I was having to bring a viewfinder anyway, so I have just the spot for it and it's not much bigger.

The VF-2 won't be my preferred viewfinder, but fortunately, the M240 comes with something fairly close to that already.
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Old 09-19-2014   #14
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A usability tip for maximizing the focusing accuracy of the EVF:

Enable Black & White film simulation mode in the menu. Even while only shooting DNG (not DNG+JPEG) this will make the preview in the EVF black and white. Then enable Blue focus peaking, and automatic focus assistance with 5x magnification.

This is by far the best and most accurate way of focusing with the EVF I find.

Now if only it was possible to move the magnified focus box like on every other digital camera since 2007 (Hello Canon EOS 40D... It could do it in LV mode too!).
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Old 09-19-2014   #15
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I'm really looking forward to trying out a couple of my Zuikos when the adapter arrives ... particularly my 50mm f1.2 and I suspect the 85mm f2 will be a very good portrait lens.
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Old 09-19-2014   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Thanks for the heads up about using manual exposure with the EVF ... that's excellent.

The camera must have come with the latest firmware because the scroll wheel does control magnification. This 240 really is a potent tool IMO ... it's several cameras in one in reality.
The scroll wheel has controlled magnification from day one....
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Old 09-19-2014   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieter View Post
The black out being the worst as it makes it such a slow solution. Another problem is being limited to zoom in only in the center. ...
I have used an evf on the sony nex 5n which was superior.
Yes the black out is a bit slow, but I work kinda slowly anyway. I do wish you could change to an off center point. And agree the Sony EVF for the 5N is pretty slick, but I found the 5N to be highly disappointing in every other area.
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Old 09-19-2014   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segedi View Post
Yes the black out is a bit slow, but I work kinda slowly anyway. I do wish you could change to an off center point. And agree the Sony EVF for the 5N is pretty slick, but I found the 5N to be highly disappointing in every other area.

That blackout surprised but when I thought about it, on the occasions when I'll be using the EVF, it won't really matter. I find the inaccurate frame lines far more annoying. I've read over the years about this issue from various users of the digital M but I'll admit I was surprised by just how far out they are. I tend to be a fairly pedantic framer so on a tripod live view is the only way to go for me and the EFV takes care of the situation for hand held shooting where accuracy matters to me.
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Old 09-19-2014   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
The scroll wheel has controlled magnification from day one....

And I was supposed to know that how?

You forget .. I'm very new to this camera!
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Old 09-19-2014   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segedi View Post
...I do wish you could change to an off center point....
The only times I've found this to be very useful have been when shooting with a tripod mounted camera, but I don't tend to do that with a Leica very much. I find my other cameras more suitable for that kind of work most of the time.

G
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Old 09-19-2014   #21
Johann Espiritu
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I used the EVF for a few months, and my thoughts on it are mixed. It's great when using ultrawides or longer lenses, but the blackout limits it's use. In the end, I "donated" it to my X-Vario, where it actually seems to work better.

I wonder if a firmware upgrade can fix the blackout?
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Old 09-19-2014   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
The only times I've found this to be very useful have been when shooting with a tripod mounted camera, but I don't tend to do that with a Leica very much. I find my other cameras more suitable for that kind of work most of the time.

G

I don't have much issue with that either ... even on a tripod it's no problem to zoom and focus on a particular point then recompose. It only takes an extra few seconds.
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Old 09-19-2014   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johann Espiritu View Post
I used the EVF for a few months, and my thoughts on it are mixed. It's great when using ultrawides or longer lenses, but the blackout limits it's use. In the end, I "donated" it to my X-Vario, where it actually seems to work better.

I wonder if a firmware upgrade can fix the blackout?

I just see it as the world's slowest reflex mirror.
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Old 09-19-2014   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I can appreciate that some of the purists aren't too thrilled about a lot of the technollogy present in the 240 ... but not being too much of a purist I'm finding it to be brilliant!


Not sure I do qualify for a purist, but it looks like I find the rangefinder experience just that bid better and a camera without a detachable finder so much cleaner, that I volunteer to learn to compensate for optical oddities. Challenges are there for a reason

If I'd have had decided for the new M, I probably would have also opted for the additional EVF, just to see, if I'd like it and "just in case". I bet however, after initial validation of its functionality, it would probably land quite down in the bag, if in the bag at all.

All that leads me thinking that Leica should adopt the Fuji X-Pro1 approach.

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Old 09-20-2014   #25
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Originally Posted by Photon42 View Post
...
All that leads me thinking that Leica should adopt the Fuji X-Pro1 approach.
To me, the EVF with the M (type 240) is a "special circumstances" kind of thing. Useful occasionally for use with longer or wider lenses than the RF viewfinder is terribly useful for, useful occasionally for using lenses that do not have rangefinder coupling, or are tricky to use because of focus shift errors. I wouldn't buy one of these cameras to use the EVF as my standard finder.

I'd hate to see the Leica viewfinder, with its thoughtfully laid out viewfinder frames, clear optical rangefinder, parallax correction, and unparalleled clarity, compromised by the mediocre Fuji X-Pro1 approach to a finder.

G
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Old 09-20-2014   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
To me, the EVF with the M (type 240) is a "special circumstances" kind of thing. Useful occasionally for use with longer or wider lenses than the RF viewfinder is terribly useful for, useful occasionally for using lenses that do not have rangefinder coupling, or are tricky to use because of focus shift errors. I wouldn't buy one of these cameras to use as my standard finder.

I'd hate to see the Leica viewfinder, with its thoughtfully laid out viewfinder frames, clear optical rangefinder, parallax correction, and unparalleled clarity, compromised by the mediocre Fuji X-Pro1 approach to a finder.


G


+1 ...........
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Old 09-20-2014   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
To me, the EVF with the M (type 240) is a "special circumstances" kind of thing. Useful occasionally for use with longer or wider lenses than the RF viewfinder is terribly useful for, useful occasionally for using lenses that do not have rangefinder coupling, or are tricky to use because of focus shift errors. I wouldn't buy one of these cameras to use the EVF as my standard finder.

I'd hate to see the Leica viewfinder, with its thoughtfully laid out viewfinder frames, clear optical rangefinder, parallax correction, and unparalleled clarity, compromised by the mediocre Fuji X-Pro1 approach to a finder.

G
Well - think of your Leica optical rangefinder with the option to switch to EVF in an instant. Just like the "mediocre" Fuji finder (which btw does have parallax correction, if I'm not mistaken). Can't see anything wrong with that.

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Old 09-20-2014   #28
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I have the Oly version (in fact, 2 of them, they were so cheap I decided to get a backup). I don't find it that bad for focusing, in fact I don't magnify the image, it takes time and increases the jitters. I've only used it with lenses that don't have finder frames. I bought this camera because it's a Leica rangefinder. And with EVF the time between taking a shot and being able to compose the next one is a deal breaker for me except with stationary subjects.
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Old 09-20-2014   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon42 View Post
Well - think of your Leica optical rangefinder with the option to switch to EVF in an instant. Just like the "mediocre" Fuji finder (which btw does have parallax correction, if I'm not mistaken). Can't see anything wrong with that.
The X-Pro1 optical viewfinder has no parallax correction that I can discern, and the EVF is mediocre at best. The Olympus VF-2 and its Leica sibling are better EVFs. The convenience of the Fuji is nice, I was totally disappointed by the quality when I tried it. It's one of the reasons I never bought the Fuji.

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Old 09-20-2014   #30
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Quote:
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My personal assesment of the EVF on the M240 is that is barely adequate and of limited usefulness. The black out being the worst as it makes it such a slow solution. Another problem is being limited to zoom in only in the center.
I find it only usefull for 90mm (and longer) and only on stationary objects. For anything else I find the ovf the much superior solution.
I have used an evf on the sony nex 5n which was superior.
I cannot say I find the NEX one that much better, it still is not even close to a real viewfinder and on the Sony it is the main one... And the focus peaking with Sony is next to useless. Far too inaccurate, and it focus peaks the noise at high ISO.

As for the blackout it can be mitigated by setting the image review to "hold shutter button". If you press and hold it will not black out, just freeze the image and it will revert to the actual view automatically as soon as the camera is ready.
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Old 09-21-2014   #31
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I certainly wasn't expecting the EVF to be cutting edge ... but it's definitely better than I expected and sure adds another string to the 240's bow.
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Old 09-21-2014   #32
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The next step if the Leica firmware allows it is the Oly VF-4. I have used the 2 and 4 on my Olympus Pen Mini 2 and found the 4 is a huge jump in image size and quality and still only cost $300 Aus.
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Old 09-21-2014   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I can appreciate that some of the purists aren't too thrilled about a lot of the technollogy present in the 240 ... but not being too much of a purist I'm finding it to be brilliant!
Getting to an age when my natural systems are of decreasing functionality, I find that I need all of the help I can get.
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Old 09-21-2014   #34
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The next step if the Leica firmware allows it is the Oly VF-4. I have used the 2 and 4 on my Olympus Pen Mini 2 and found the 4 is a huge jump in image size and quality and still only cost $300 Aus.
Won't happen on the 240. The hardware cannot support it.
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