Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Leica M9 / ME

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

M-E vs. M 8.2 - Image Quality and Overall Experience
Old 02-01-2014   #1
DRCope
Registered User
 
DRCope is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Quiet Corner, CT USA
Posts: 7
M-E vs. M 8.2 - Image Quality and Overall Experience

I'm suddenly, perhaps temporarily, in a position to compare the M8.2 to the M-E. (Both purchased used here on RFF, thanks very much!)

Historically, over the last 10 years I've had a Minilux, M2, X2, M8.2 and now (as of yesterday afternoon), an M-E. I've also had a Nikon FA, F4, D700 and various lenses over that same time.

My plan was to sell off all but the D700 and M-E to cover the M-E cost, but as long as they're both here, I think I'll put on the hair shirt long enough to compare the digital Ms. Who knows, in the end, I may keep both. ;-)

Has anyone else already done the 8.2/E dance, and if so, please share the results here?

If we could skip the hypotheticals and back-biting, show actual results and experiences and remain civil to one another, that would be swell.
__________________
Leica M8.2, 50 Summicron, 90/4 Elmar, Leica X2, Leica Minilux, M2, Nikon D700, 24-70/2.8 AFS, 70-200/2.8 AFS, F4S, FA, assorted AIS lenses, ZeroImage 4x5 pinhole camera.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-01-2014   #2
Luke_Miller
Registered User
 
Luke_Miller's Avatar
 
Luke_Miller is offline
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rural Virginia
Posts: 131
I bought an M9 while I still owned the M8.2. Initially I thought I would keep both, but found I enjoyed the M9 so much more that I sold the M8.2. Since the M-E is basically an M9 minus the frame line preview lever and USB port my experience should be relevant. With the M9 I found I really enjoyed getting back to the field of view I experienced with my film M and my Nikon FX bodies. Losing the IR Cut filters was a plus as well. I found image quality to be pretty much the same as you would expect. The M9's ISO performance was better, but not dramatically so. With the M8.2 my most used focal length was 28mm. 24mm when I wanted to go wide. I found 50 a bit long for me. With the M9 I bounce between 35 and 50. 28 is back to being a wide angle and my 24 is about as wide as I ever need to go. I picked up a used Leica Universal Wide-Angle ViewFinder, which works really well with the 24 and 28, and eliminates viewfinder blockage from the lens hoods.
__________________
http://lukemiller.photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-01-2014   #3
CrisR
Registered User
 
CrisR's Avatar
 
CrisR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London, UK
Posts: 834
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M8 and M8.2 are functionally/image wise, identical aren't they?

And the ME is functionally/image wise, identical to the M9, isn't it? Tho, of course, missing the frame line selector lever and USB port.

I'm pretty sure that's the case, and if so, I run an M8 and M9 together - i'm pretty sure the comparisons have been made quite often haven't they?

Either way, my notes would simply be

Identical handling/shooting
Identical pixel pitch means the M8 image is just a cropped M9 image
M9 is 1 stop better/usable with regards ISO
Colours seem more appealing to me on the M9, but that's just my personal preference
M9 doesn't have any noticeable IR sensitivity, compared to the M8's high sensitivity

M8's black and white is somehow different to the M9's, a bit more punchy somehow, where the M9 appears to have smoother tones. This is just my observation. I essentially use the M8 as a poor man's M Monochrom, with color recoverable if needed, but the M9 is both.

I have a preference using 25/35/50 lenses on the M9 over the M8, simply because of the regular field of view, tho the 35/47/67 that they become on the M8 is a fine combo too.

Image sharpness is just as good at the pixel level
Wide lenses have better corner performance on the M8, but only due to the corners being cropped off. A cropped M9 image would be just as good.

Ummm i think that's about it?

I use the M9 mainly, but often use the M9 and M8 together with different lenses mounted, usually with one zone focused at f8 and the other wide open for shallow DOF.

If i had to keep just one, it would be the M9 naturally, but the M8 is hardly a generation behind, the M9 could just as easily be considered an M8.5 IMHO.
__________________
Paper Hills Photography
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-01-2014   #4
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is online now
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,869
I use the M8 and M9 side by side. This combo works very well for me. I usually have a 50mm lens on the M8 for a short portrait lens, while I mostly use a 35mm lens on the M9. The comments above hold also for me.
__________________
- Raid

________________


http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-01-2014   #5
pgk
Registered User
 
pgk is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
I use the M8 and M9 side by side.
Me too. Both are lovely cameras and both are technically capable of producing excellent images. I've given up bothering to compare them and will pick up either as I feel inclined and enjoy each for its slight difference (FoV, colour, MPixels, etc.) from the other. If I had to choose one over the other I'd go for the M9 because I feel it is more versatile due to being full frame, but that's about it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-01-2014   #6
jippiejee
Registered User
 
jippiejee's Avatar
 
jippiejee is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 711
I find the image quality of both cameras very close really, but enjoy the faster buffering of the M9, whereas the M8 can really slow you down when shooting series. As others have said already, I enjoy getting the 'true' fov's back on the ff M9 using it for 28mm and 35mm, while shooting my 50mm on the M8 for tighter shots. The iso performance of the M9 isn't really that much better, or not as much as I had hoped initially: maybe one stop?

I doubt you'll see much difference between the two cameras when comparing them at base iso's.
__________________
flickr
flickriver
---
Leica M4-P/M8/M9
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-01-2014   #7
wintoid
Back to film
 
wintoid's Avatar
 
wintoid is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 1,328
I found the noise banded more on the M8.2 than the M9 when at high ISOs. In general I would limit the M8.2 to ISO1250 but the M9 I will go higher.

Otherwise I felt they were very similar.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-01-2014   #8
gwg
Registered User
 
gwg is offline
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 62
I very much enjoyed using both - on the M9 I miss the frame counter, out of nostalgia but also because it does give a quick view of card and battery status and the lovely black and white images due to the stronger IR capture. But I find the full frame sensor, the slightly higher ISO and manually setting the lenses more than make up for those.
__________________
---
My current project: brusselspeople.tumblr.com

Shooting film and digital with various (mostly Leica) rangefinders
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-02-2014   #9
CrisR
Registered User
 
CrisR's Avatar
 
CrisR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London, UK
Posts: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwg View Post
on the M9 I miss the frame counter, out of nostalgia but also because it does give a quick view of card and battery status
Yes, this is pretty much the only thing i feel they should have kept on the M9 and brought back for the ME, it was/is very handy at a quick glance, mainly for the battery. A 4 digit display would have been nice too.

But in reality, tho i missed it a lot at first, i've gotten use the the little info button on the back and appreciate the greater detail the screen gives.

But why not have both?

Overall tho, it sounds as if most comments on this thread are quite harmonious?
__________________
Paper Hills Photography
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-03-2014   #10
tester
Registered User
 
tester is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15
I used to use M8.2 and afair it was great camera those days but I was mad about lack of FF, color renderition, IR problems and overall image quality.
Now as M9 owner I'm really satisfied.
So if you can afford M-E - go for it, do not limit yourself to M8.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-04-2014   #11
helvetica
Registered User
 
helvetica's Avatar
 
helvetica is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 239
Simple question that would be obvious for someone who owned both - how do the frame lines of the M8 look in relation to other M's? Is it effectively the .72 frame line set on a .85 prism assembly? Or is it the same optical finder, but with 1.3x magnified frame lines? If you had a 50mm lens on the ME and a 35mm on the M8, would both viewfinder appear roughly the same?
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-04-2014   #12
jippiejee
Registered User
 
jippiejee's Avatar
 
jippiejee is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica View Post
Is it effectively the .72 frame line set on a .85 prism assembly? Or is it the same optical finder, but with 1.3x magnified frame lines? If you had a 50mm lens on the ME and a 35mm on the M8, would both viewfinder appear roughly the same?
The physical framelines are identical, although the M8 has got framelines for 24mm that are absent on the M9. The M8 viewfinder just has a wider fov to compensate for the crop factor.
__________________
flickr
flickriver
---
Leica M4-P/M8/M9
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-04-2014   #13
CrisR
Registered User
 
CrisR's Avatar
 
CrisR is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: London, UK
Posts: 834
Yup, they look the same, they're all just smaller - so the 35mm frameline are almost the same size as a 50mm frameline on a film M or M9, the 50mm is almost like a 75mm, etc
__________________
Paper Hills Photography
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-04-2014   #14
jippiejee
Registered User
 
jippiejee's Avatar
 
jippiejee is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrisR View Post
Yup, they look the same, they're all just smaller...
No, they're identical!

M8:


M9:
__________________
flickr
flickriver
---
Leica M4-P/M8/M9
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-04-2014   #15
helvetica
Registered User
 
helvetica's Avatar
 
helvetica is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 239
This all made sense until I saw the photo example. If you look at the 50mm lines, they vertically extend from the one dark figure on the dock to the [photographer's] left of the shack on the beach - in both examples. Granted the waves are exactly the same in all six frames, therefore it's a photoshop illustration not a real picture through the viewfinder. (and obviously it an illustration)
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-04-2014   #16
jippiejee
Registered User
 
jippiejee's Avatar
 
jippiejee is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica View Post
It's a photoshop illustration not a real picture through the viewfinder. (and obviously it an illustration)
Yes, skip the background image. But it shows how the framelines are identical, achieved by giving the M8 viewfinder a wider fov.
__________________
flickr
flickriver
---
Leica M4-P/M8/M9
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-09-2014   #17
JPSuisse
Registered User
 
JPSuisse's Avatar
 
JPSuisse is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 431
For me, it's ergonomically a toss up.

The M8 has the counter and the batter indicator on top. But, the IR filters do mean a bit of logistics... and once in a while having to carry an extra lens. The M8 is the digital camera leader for me in the file quality/to file size ratio!

Otherwise, when handling both I can't really tell a significant difference.

Note: the buffer on the M8 is slow. I wasn't paying attention, but isn't it even slower on the M9?
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-09-2014   #18
Dez.
Registered User
 
Dez. is offline
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 29
I have both the M8 and M9 (functionally the same as the M8.2 and M-E) and to be honest, I don't use the M8 much anymore and keep it mostly as a backup for when my M9's rangefinder goes out of alignment. When using IR filters on the M8, the the two cameras produce very similar results at base ISO, though the colors are very slightly different. If you're not using the IR filters, then the M8 has a very different color response, not just in black fabrics but foliage skews towards yellow and skin tones will shift depending on how much IR is bouncing around your environment. If you're in strong tungsten lighting, skin tones get absolutely murdered if you're not using an IR filter. M8 files have a little more sharpness at 100%, but it's not enough to show up in prints.
I think the main argument to keep both would be if you want to do IR photography at faster shutter speeds and with a working meter. The M9 will do IR photography at the usual tripod speeds, but the meter won't give you an accurate reading, while the M8 will.
__________________
I would post a link to my personal blog here, but apparently that's not allowed.

"Rule No. 5 - No Self-Promotion
5) Members will not post any messages anywhere on this site that are primarily for the promotion or advertising of any website, forums, email address, business, MLM, activity, or other entities that you have an affiliation with (ie. no self-promotion). Additionally Self-Promotion links will no longer be allowed in your signature."
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-09-2014   #19
Monochrom
Registered User
 
Monochrom's Avatar
 
Monochrom is offline
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,045
Hi, when i had my m8 upgraded camera i used to shoot lots of film...once i bought the m9 i shoot hardly any film...

The m9 is such an improvement over the m8 in many terms not only the FF sensor, but menus and ease of use is better overall speed, etc.

The m8 produces punching B/W files..but the m9 does it too.

I kept the ir cut filters i used on my m8 u...since they are expensive and great!

Now i have a dp2 merrill that fills the gap produced when i sold the m8 up.

off the record: the m8 is better built than the m9, better materials (donŽt tell anybody i said this, iŽll deny it)
__________________
M9 Vc 28/3.5 Ltm 5/3.5
Leica IIIF Black Paint
Fuji Gf670
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-09-2014   #20
doolittle
Registered User
 
doolittle's Avatar
 
doolittle is offline
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ireland
Age: 47
Posts: 589
For me the question is: is the M9 €2000 better than the M8?
I really like the idea of my lenses behaving the way I am used to from 35mm film, plus I hate the 24mm/35mm framelines!
However I like using the M8 for infrared shots, but couldn't justify having both an M8 and M9.
So for me, for the time being, the answer is no. I can understand why it would be worth it to somebody else.
__________________
--

fixerofshadows.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-09-2014   #21
Dez.
Registered User
 
Dez. is offline
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by doolittle View Post
For me the question is: is the M9 €2000 better than the M8?
I really like the idea of my lenses behaving the way I am used to from 35mm film, plus I hate the 24mm/35mm framelines!
However I like using the M8 for infrared shots, but couldn't justify having both an M8 and M9.
So for me, for the time being, the answer is no. I can understand why it would be worth it to somebody else.
For me, the M9 is definitely worth the premium over the M8, but that's just me
__________________
I would post a link to my personal blog here, but apparently that's not allowed.

"Rule No. 5 - No Self-Promotion
5) Members will not post any messages anywhere on this site that are primarily for the promotion or advertising of any website, forums, email address, business, MLM, activity, or other entities that you have an affiliation with (ie. no self-promotion). Additionally Self-Promotion links will no longer be allowed in your signature."
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-10-2014   #22
Fraser
Registered User
 
Fraser is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,722
For me full frame is always worth a premium, the only thing that bugs me since I changed from M8-M9 is do I really need a 28mm Summicron anymore. All my cameras are full frame for work I use a couple of Canon 1dx and when I'm not working either a 5d classic (best full frame buy at the moment) or M9, its just nice to have everything the same format, but thats just me.
Thinking about it when I still had an M8 my work cameras were Canon 1dmk3 which worked out well as they are also 1.3 crop.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-10-2014   #23
Mcary
Registered User
 
Mcary is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Virginia USA
Age: 58
Posts: 1,787
Since I've only shoot with the M8 so I can't really speak to what the differences/advantage of one of the newer models like the M9, M-E besides the obvious things like megapixels and higher usable ISO speeds. What I can say is the more I use the M8 the less I feel the need to replace it. Sure its old tech but as longs at that tech meets my needs that's all the matters.
__________________
M. Cary
Trying to see something new whither I'm visiting someplace new or a place that I've visited many a time before.


  Reply With Quote

Old 02-11-2014   #24
doolittle
Registered User
 
doolittle's Avatar
 
doolittle is offline
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ireland
Age: 47
Posts: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcary View Post
Since I've only shoot with the M8 so I can't really speak to what the differences/advantage of one of the newer models like the M9, M-E besides the obvious things like megapixels and higher usable ISO speeds. What I can say is the more I use the M8 the less I feel the need to replace it. Sure its old tech but as longs at that tech meets my needs that's all the matters.
I think I have to agree. As a digital camera the M8 is more than good enough for my purposes. Sometimes one can over-think these things, much better to take pictures!
__________________
--

fixerofshadows.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-11-2014   #25
ian_watts
Ian Watts
 
ian_watts is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by jippiejee View Post
it shows how the framelines are identical, achieved by giving the M8 viewfinder a wider fov.
This is not correct. Both M8 and M9 viewfinders are the same 0.68x magnification and the framelines are sized differently. For example, the 35mm framelines on the M8 are sized to the cropped, effective focal length of 47mm. If you don't believe me, I suggest that you stick a 35mm lens on each camera and take a look through the VF of each in turn.
__________________
Tumblr // Flickr // Instagram // ianwatts.co.uk
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 16:29.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.